AA History Lovers 2009 — moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut — page
AA History Lovers
2009
Messages 5453-6184
moderated by
Nancy Olson
September 18, 1929 – March 25, 2005
Glenn F. Chesnut
June 28, 1939 –
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++++Message 5453. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Signatures on Big Book: Howard
M. Wilson
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2008 6:36:00 PM
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Howard M. Wilson was Bill's cousin.
- - - -
> Hi Jared:
>
> I saw that Virginia added a note beside
> signature number 66, Howard M. Wilson.
> Her note said: "(Bill's brother)"
> How did she come to believe that Bill had
> a brother? As we know, he only had a sister,
> Dorothy. His uncle was Clarence, who is
> buried beside Bill in East Dorset.
>
> Les
> Colorado Springs, CO
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++++Message 5454. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Signatures on Big Book: Howard
M. Wilson & John Carney
From: Matt Dingle . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2008 9:32:00 PM
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HOWARD WILSON:
Howard Wilson was Bill Wilson's cousin who
lived at Stepping Stones for a while. Bill
spent time helping him sober up. (I think
Bill's effort eventually came to naught.)
JOHN CARNEY (JACK CARNEY) -- Art Carney's brother
Also, I noticed John Carney's name on the
opposite page from Howard. John (or Jack)
Carney was Art Carney's brother and wrote
the "Take me out to Bellevue" song featured
in the 1993 version of Gresham's Law and
Alcoholics Anonymous:
I¢ve been staying away from the meetings,
I¢ve been staying away from the crowd.
A pint and three nembies, then call the hack,
Here's one wack that is flat on his back.
Take me out to Bellevue,
so I can remember my name,
I must be nuts to think I could cheat
on the AA game.
For whatever it is worth.
Thanks
Matt D.
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++++Message 5455. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Tiebout Question
From: Sally Brown . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 11:13:00 AM
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Hi, Mike and everybody -
Marty may have been Tiebout's first alcoholic
patient at Blythewood, but we don't know that.
He was already interested in alcoholism when
he met Marty at Bellevue, so probably had had
other such patients.
Marty certainly was not Blythewood's first
alcoholic patient. Grennie Curtis, Nona Wyman,
and a couple of other alcoholic women were
already Blythewood patients when Marty arrived.
(See Chs 12-13 and p 131 of A Biography of
Mrs Marty Mann for info about Grennie).
Happy New Year! Sally
Rev Sally Brown
Board Certified Chaplain
United Church of Christ
Coauthor with David R Brown:
A Biography of Mrs. Marty Mann:
The First Lady of Alcoholics Anonymous
http://www.sallyanddavidbrown.com
1470 Sand Hill Rd, 309
Palo Alto, California 94304
Phone/Fax: 650-325-5258
Email: rev.sally@att.net
(rev.sally at att.net)
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++++Message 5456. . . . . . . . . . . . Just For Today made to stop emails
by AA World Services
From: DudleyDobinson@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/31/2008 6:14:00 PM
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From Dudley Dobinson, a recovered member of
AA in Ireland:
http://www.aahistory.com/ has a notice that
their Just For Today emails have had to be
stopped. As they announce it on their webpage:
http://www.aahistory.com/jft.html
Dear "Just For Today!" members,
As of December 31, 2008 we find ourselves at
the end of an unplanned transition. Our last
email has been sent, dear readers, until we
can find some suitable material to pass on to
you that can be emailed around the globe
without restrictions.
It's been sheer joy being of service to you
for these last 4,850 days. (One at a time.)
- - - -
An explanation is given in an email they have
sent around to various people:
"AA World Services has asked us to cease and
desist sending AA materials outside the US,
in violation of international copyright
agreements. It’s virtually impossible to
police who is in the US and who isn’t, so
we’re ceasing publication rather than risk
legal action by AAWS."
"Our last posting comes from the first edition
of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, printed in
1939 by Works Publishing Company, pages 178-179
(currently page 164 in the 4th edition of the
same title)."
"Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We
realize we know only a little. God will
constantly disclose more to you and to us.
Ask Him in your morning meditation what you
can do each day for the man who is still sick.
The answers will come, if your own house is in
order. But obviously you cannot transmit
something you haven't got. See to it that your
relationship with Him is right, and great
events will come to pass for you and countless
others. This is the Great Fact for us."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand
God. Admit your faults to Him and to your
fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past.
Give freely of what you find and join us. We
shall be with you in the Fellowship of the
Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us
as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
"May God bless you and keep you - until then."
Sincerely,
Bob M., Scott B., Terry H., Carl J., Bob B.,
Jenny M., Doug B., Barbara P., Ken P., Roger B.,
Bill B., Seth P., Luke J., and the late Herb K.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FROM THE MODERATOR:
We have posted this because the long series of
attempts by AA World Services in New York City
to keep alcoholics in many other parts of the
world from reading material from the first
edition of the Big Book (even though it is no
longer under copyright in the U.S.) unless it
has been printed by AAWS or reproduced under
direct license from them, is a part of AA
history.
You can go back through our past messages
and read full historical accounts of all of
the earlier disputes over this and similar
issues involving AAWS.
But please remember one of the cardinal
guidelines set up by our group's founder,
Nancy Olson: "This is not an AA chat group,"
by which she meant that we had to stick with
questions about the historical facts, and
could not get involved in disputes over
matters of opinion and interpretation.
So no matter how strongly you feel on either
side of this issue -- whether you regard
the people at AAWS as the Children of
Darkness or the Children of Light -- please
do not send messages to the AAHistoryLovers
simply swearing at AAWS or defending them as
the true angels of righteousness and probity.
On the other hand, if there are major factual
errors in what the messages from Just For Today
and its supporters have reported, or other
historical facts that have been omitted from
the story, those are fair game for the
aa-HISTORY-lovers.
I know that lots of people feel VERY strongly
on this issue, but please, to preserve the
basic character of the AAHistoryLovers as
a venue to check on the basic historical
facts of AA history in a reasonably calm
and objective format, send these comments to
some other better suited AA web group.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 5457. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Henry Ford remark on page 124 of
the Big Book
From: Russ Stewart . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 10:16:00 PM
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The quote from THE FAMILY AFTERWARD, pg. 124:
"Henry Ford once made a wise remark to the
effect that experience is the thing of supreme
value is life. That is true only if one is
willing to turn the past to good account. We
grow by our willingness to face and rectify
errors and convert them into assets. The
alcoholic's past thus becomes the principal
asset of the family and frequently it is
almost the only one!"
I believe the quote the Big Book authors were
referring to was:
"Life is a series of experiences, each one of
which makes us bigger, even though sometimes
it is hard to realize this. For the world was
built to develop character, and we must learn
that the setbacks and grieves which we endure
help us in our marching onward."
But I do not know when he said it or who he
was saying it to.
However, I did find this on Wikipedia:
In 1923, Ford's pastor, and head of the Ford
Sociology Department, the Episcopal minister
Samuel S. Marquis, claimed that Ford believed,
or "once believed" in reincarnation. Though
it is unclear whether or how long Ford kept
such a belief, the San Francisco Examiner from
August 26, 1928, published a quote which
described Ford's beliefs:
- - - -
I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I
was twenty six. Religion offered nothing to
the point. Even work could not give me
complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we
cannot utilise the experience we collect in
one life in the next. When I discovered
Reincarnation it was as if I had found a
universal plan I realised that there was a
chance to work out my ideas. Time was no
longer limited. I was no longer a slave to
the hands of the clock. Genius is experience.
Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent,
but it is the fruit of long experience in many
lives. Some are older souls than others, and
so they know more. The discovery of Reincarnation
put my mind at ease. If you preserve a record
of this conversation, write it so that it puts
men's minds at ease. I would like to communicate
to others the calmness that the long view of
life gives to us.
- - - -
My new question now is, did Bill W. believe in
reincarnation??
______________________________
From the moderator:
For more on Rev. Marquis and the so-called
"Ford Sociology Department," see:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n10_v39/ai_6323610/pg_4
The Ford Motor Company's experiment in what is sometimes referred to as
"welfare
capitalism" was gradually undermined by increasing competition from other
Detroit manufacturers, by growing labor unrest, and by an economy that after
the
First World War showed signs of becoming more and more unstable. During the
First World War, the Ford Sociological Department became the base of
operations
within the Ford Motor Company for the national spy network associated with
the
American Protective League (APL). This was a patriotic "citizen's group"
which
had as its object the discovery of IWW and socialist opponents of the war
effort, and the enforcement of the Espionage and Sedition Acts of the
federal
government. Ford Sociological Department investigators working for the APL
examined the files on the home lives of Ford workers for evidence of
disloyalty,
and used these as a basis for coercing or firing "wrong elements."
In the depression of 1920-21 that came after the war the Ford Motor Co. was
especially hard hit. Total sales of vehicles dropped from 998,029 in 1919 to
530,780 in 1920. In the drastic reorganization that followed, which included
massive layoffs and an enormous speed-up on the production line, the
strategy of
the Ford Motor Co. turned from one of "welfare capitalism" to more ruthless
forms of exploitation. Explaining the general atmosphere at this time, one
Ford
executive stated, "We were driving them, of course. We were driving them in
those days. . . . Ford was one of the worst shops for driving the men." As
part
of this reorganization, the Sociological Department was disbanded in 1921.
Yet,
its more repressive function, associated with what Leo Huberman was to call
"the
labor spy racket," was retained and given a new home in the notorious
Service
Department, which became the headquarters for Ford's struggles against
unions
throughout the 1920s and 1930s.
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++++Message 5458. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill Wilson against the use of
vulgar lanquage
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/29/2008 8:58:00 PM
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Message #430 of this group submitted by its
founder, Nancy Olson, July 20, 2002
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/430
gives Bill Wilson's Guidelines for stories in
the 2d edition of the Big Book:
"Since the audience for the book [Big Book]
is likely to be newcomers, anything from the
point of view of content or style that might
offend or alienate those who are not familiar
with the program should be carefully elim-
inated . . . Profanity, even when mild,
rarely contributes as much as it detracts.
It should be avoided."
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
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Message 5450 from
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