ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: The Central Intake Team, including after hours team, staff establishment
as at 30 April was 16, plus two casual P2 staff.
Ms CARNEY: So, of the 16, how many are P1s and how many are P2s?
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: I will take that question on notice.
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Question on Notice No 7.2
Mr CHAIRMAN: Would you mind just repeating it for Hansard?
Ms CARNEY: Of the 16 intake workers currently employed in the Central Intake Team, how many are
employed at the level of P1, and how many are employed at the level of P2?
Mr VATSKALIS: That is a specific question?
Ms CARNEY: Yes. The reason I ask is that it is clear that the Children’s Commissioner and the
Tolhurst report said that the intake team was not coping, and it had serious, indeed, severe, capacity
problems. At the time of the Children’s Commissioner report, there were, I understand, eight, three of
whom were P2s and the remainder were P1s, and I would have thought that if you were looking to
increase capacity and expertise of child protection workers to make the system work better, you
would be looking at getting more P2s.
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: Correct.
Ms CARNEY: Nodding heads everywhere, and I look forward to the answer in due course.
Mr CHAIRMAN: That is question No 7.2.
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Ms CARNEY: Minister, you did a radio interview on 18 February, and during that interview, I think it
was with the ABC, you said:
I have spoken already to the new Acting Director of the department. I have given her clear
directions that she has to go in, use a broom, and get rid of people that cannot deliver.
Nothing is going to be fixed unless we have got a department that functions properly.
Since then, how many people have, as you so delicately described it, been got rid of?
Mr VATSKALIS: Oh, I think I will hand that to Clare.
Ms GARDINER-BARNES: I will have to take that question on notice. I think it is important to put in
context that there are a lot of workers in the child protection system who are putting in incredible
hours and are putting in an incredible effort to meet with the increase of demand in the child
protection area, and my efforts have been on trying to support those staff to do the job that they are
employed to do and do it well.
__________________________
Question on Notice No 7.3
Mr CHAIRMAN: Would you mind just repeating it for Hansard?
Ms CARNEY: Since your interview on 18 February, in which you said that you gave instructions to the
new Acting Director of the department to get rid of people, how many have been got rid of? Which is a
very badly worded question, but it is the question in any event. My English teacher will never forgive
me for asking a question like that.
ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010
Mr CHAIRMAN: That is question No 7.3.
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Mr VATSKALIS: Member for Araluen, as Clare said, her aim is at the support staff, because there
were people actually that decided to go somewhere else, and they left themselves, but I have to admit
that, in the past few months since Clare has taken on that, we have seen significant improvement in
the performance of the department, and that can be attributed to both the leadership, second, to make
clear the targets and what the government wants, and certainly supporting staff and additional staffing
employed.
Now, getting rid of people, they can be either dismissed, or make clear to them that it might be time to
find a new job, and give them two options.
Ms CARNEY: Well, you were beating your chest, it seems to me, on ABC radio, saying:
I have told the department to go in and get rid of people.
It is extraordinary that, at estimates, you do not know how many people have been got rid of. Your
predecessor, despite her obvious incompetence, clearly was not listened to by senior bureaucrats.
Should I be concerned, and should others be concerned, that either you are not being listened to by
senior bureaucrats, or they are not following through with your clear direction?
Mr VATSKALIS: Member for Araluen, first of all, under our Westminster system the minister does not
hire or fire; that is the role of the bureaucrats. It would be really alarming if the minister says: ‘Yes
(inaudible) because I said so’. I think senior public servants get paid more than ministers to do these
kinds of jobs. And, for your information, in 2009 to date we had 192 commencements and 96
(inaudible) separations.
Ms CARNEY: No doubt. But my question, you cheeky thing, is how many have been got rid of? You
represented in a radio interview to Territorians that you were the new guy, you were going to go in
there and act, you were going to get rid of people, and you cannot even answer how many have been
got rid of.
Mr VATSKALIS: I just told you, 96.
Ms CARNEY: No, do not weasel; I am not going to put up with that. It is just indescribable the extent
to which you do …
Mr VATSKALIS: You asked a question, and you got an answer.
Ms CARNEY: Ninety six separations is not like the minister beating his chest and instructing, giving a
very clear directive, to the Acting Director to get rid of people. You and I both know that is a
fundamental difference.
Mr VATSKALIS: I asked the Acting Director to go in and do whatever was necessary to fix the
problem. If that meant people had to go, that was her decision.
Ms CARNEY: You said: ‘Use a broom’?
Mr VATSKALIS: Yes, that is what I told you: use a broom to clean the department. How she is going
to do it is her choice - or his choice - whoever it is. Public servants do the job, not the minister.
Ms CARNEY: Well, it seems to me that in the area of child protection, with one exception - the
member for Arafura - who, whilst I am yet to find a perfect, or anywhere near perfect, Labor
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