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| I eat only one meal a day."
Just thought that was interesting given his size, strength, and athletic ability. Well, he began that routine when he was 12 and continued it through high school and college. He found the time because he didn't spend as much time as most people sleeping and eating, that was his point. Response by Robb Wolf I think genetics played a pretty big role there. I like intermittent fasting, I love sprints...but I'll never be at the level of Hershal Walker. Not without many trips to Tijuana! It's interesting stuff but it's always a hazard emulating the workout and lifestyles of elite athletes. Approach with caution. Posted 12-27-2007 by Susie Rosenberg I did a LOT of reading before jumping into this. From an MD's POV, here are my conclusions: 1. Nobody knows for sure what the ideal fasting "dose" is. Nobody knows the minimum number of days/week or fasting hours/day that nets you the purported benefits. Nobody knows, either, how much is too much if you are not starving yourself outright. Ideally, keeping records will provide the feedback necessary to evaluate any given individual's IF protocol. These records could include
2. My understanding of why it works: It's not calorie restriction, since most folks compress their daily calorie needs into a shorter feeding window. It seems to be related to two different processes. First, just giving the body a rest from the digestive process is like shutting off the engine of a car. The engine lasts longer because it is resting from the mechanical wear of moving parts, and the accumulated debris of increasingly dirty oil. (For us, that would mean less sludge in the arteries from not carrying around fat particles, and resting the cells from the work of digestion.) Basically, you are decreasing the rate of oxidation in the body (less rust!). Second, fasting not only is a rest, it's a stress. When we stress, then rest our muscles, they get stronger. Apparently, when we fast, we impose a unique metabolic stress that also makes us stronger in a metabolic sense. We become primed to use food more efficiently. Our sensitivity to the actions of insulin increases---which means we need to put out less insulin to get the needed response. Hormones that have positive effects in our bodies increase: growth hormone increases, as do certain brain neuropeptides that are protective against Alzheimer's. Immunity to disease seems to strengthen as part of this neuroendocrine response to fasting. I haven't seen one study that reported negative effects. (Remember virtually ALL of these studies have been done on rats and other animals!) Finally, from reading the animal studies, and the anecdotal reports of people who have been doing this, I've concluded the following about the risks and benefits: 1. Benefits could include: increased insulin sensitivity, decreased body fat, increased muscle mass, better immune functioning, decreased oxidation load meaning lowered risk of cancer and anti-aging effects. 2. Negative aspects: Some studies reported disturbance in sleep, which is why I asked about that in my original question. (Maybe it's only mice that don't sleep well hungry, because I had two really good nights' sleep fasting, and I don't usually sleep that well.) While the majority of people doing IF are happy with their strength gains, I gather if you are not careful about getting sufficient protein and calories to support lean body mass, you could lose muscle tissue. Also, some people respond to the fasting state with overfeeding and gain fat on IF; you have to be careful not to overdo it by telling yourself "I fast, therefore I (over)eat." Some people report that initially, metcon suffers. I don't really know what to say about that, 'cause I haven't gleaned what they did about it. The science is compelling. Susie
Great thread. Not much to add other than we KNOW a paleo type diet delivers pretty optimal performance. Joe Friel, USA triathalon coach remonds one, Barry Sears, Loren Cordain, Charles Poliquin...folks who make thier living coaching people and consulting recomend a very similar approach. Start with that then one can experiment with compresisng the feeding window, say from 12-18hrs of fasting, perhaps even jsut a day or two per week. Posted 1-17-2008 by Brad Davis I apologize for kinda double-asking this question. I tacked it onto the back end of and old thread and got no answers, so suspect that it wasn't noticed. I've read that it's good to eat post-WO to decrease cortisol levels. Why should we not be concerned about this if we IF, workout outside the feeding window, and wait many hours before eating? For example, several of my workouts lately have been at 11-12 at night and I didn't eat until 1-2pm the next day. Actually, why should we IFers not be concerned about cortisol in general (as compared to folks who eat normally)? My limited understanding is that cortisol levels are kept under control partly by regular eating. Thank you very much.
Response by Robb Wolf If we are insulin sensitive we should see an easy shift to fat metabolism and possibly ketone production which will keep cortisol in check. As Garrett mentioned, some cortisol is not a bad thing, we just don't want to see things go too sideways. There are some inexpensive saliva test kits for monitoring cortisol levels but a simple assessment of "am I performing better, worse or the same" can help direct whether one is going to wild with the IF. Posted 1-24-2007 by Greg Battaglia Just wondering if anyone (probably Robb) has gained any further insight into methylglyoxal formation and/or regulatory functions in a ketotic state (fasting, ketosis, CR). The topic was discusses in a previous thread that can be found here: http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...=methylglyoxal Robb alluded to the idea that there may be some regulatory mechanisms in action that prevent methylglyoxals from forming AGE's in the case of IF. Any new ideas, theories, facts regarding this topic? Thanks in advance.
Greg- Everything I've researched on this topic points towards ketosis decreasing AGE's both from non-enzyme mediated glycation (glycose) and methylglyoxal. Not surprisingly, hihg blood glucose levels AND ketosis (ketoacidosis...raging insulin resistance) is REALLY bad for AGE's. I have a blog post int he works looking at some of the mechanisms in place with low carb eating and potential health benefits. Posted 3-16-2008 by Craig Van De Walker Results from another day of glucose testing. Not sure if this thread really still belongs under IF section or not, but. Night before I went to Dairy Queen and had a pecan cluster blizzard, about 500-600 cals of dairy and sugar laden delight. (I have not had one of these for almost a year). The next day... 83@550
There is one big difference in that this was a relatively relaxing day off work! The other time when I was fasting and had levels I did not like was a day at work which is usually pretty high stress. Of particular interest to me was that even my postprandial readings were better than fasting levels the other day. This is definitely not a normal day for me as I had many non-paleo/zone non-favorable carbs.
Response by Robb Wolf Craig- A more consistent eatign pattern OR somehting like a compressed feeeding window (last meal at 5pm, next meal at 8am) or somehting like that may be a better option. We are not wired for chronic stress (like damn dirty work!) and fastign can certianly exacerbate that. Posted 3-25-2008 by Alicia Zhuang I've been doing 18-21 hour fasts for four months now and am experiencing huge drops in body temperature while fasting. People say our library is cold but they are able to study there in tshirt and shorts and perhaps a light sweater, but I am freezing in jeans, tshirt, sweater, shoes and socks even and my lips turn purple and my hands go numb. Has anyone had this kind of experience? Further, we're at the end of summer now and I dread to think what winter will be like for me... Response by Robb Wolf Fasting will DEFENITELY decrease body temp. Scotty and i have noticed this for a long time. It's nice in the summer, hell in the winter. Shorten the fast periods as folks have recommended...make IF work for you, not against you! Basic paleo/zone eating to far too effective to introduce an undue amount of stress.
as i get older...the less I want to do...but the more I want in return....I go for B....more intensity, more recovery.....seems to work for my sanity and keeps me consistent in the long run...which is where my improvement comes in....consistency... Response by Robb Wolf Really good thread...I can only throw out a few thoughts right now: The Power Running guy makes the points: 1-be a s strong as possible 2-Do some intervals 3-run your race pace fast 4-substrate utilization/depletion is the limiting factor in endurance performance, not O2 consumption/utilization. Many studies of late have shown that neither myoglobin or hemoglobin are depleted in O2 to a degree that will limit performance, even at extreme workloads. Ideally one is "very" fat adapted such that, at any given output, one uses more fat and less glucose for activity. As intensity of exercise increases more and more carbs are inevitably used which can cause substrate depletion...also there is the issue of pH change with increasing workloads.
Stop your sceintifical! I don't have a ton to add but.....My experience is that you can get a lot of bang for your buck with the occasional really long run/ride/swim. The advice above is going to be dead sexy for most endurance athletes. However, don't underestimate how much of your ultimate limits are wound up in being mentally prepared to suffer for hours or days. My first mountain bike race that was over 50k seemed brutal. Once I had done a week long stage race, 50k desert races seemed like a temporary inconvience that involved some sweating and light chaffing. Overdistance stuff really helped my brain get fitter for the task.
Dave-
It's interesting also...we have generally recommended CF type WOD's ~ 3-4 days per week, some sprint work and one long effort every 7-10 days for our endurance folks, particularly multisport. Some of these people are getting to a pretty high level of performance, placing well, improving race to race and avoiding most of the repetitive injury issues. Much more time efficient also.
Good to here that's working Robb. I wish I would have been clued in to that type of training instead of the "miles on the bike is money in the bank" mindlessness that permeates roadie culture. especially stupid here and in Cali where there is no offseason. Are your intense sessions sports specific for the clients at all or are you relying with the typical mix of CF movements? I had used speed skating off and on to train for cycling but those are very similar limb movements. I do know of one national level Master's cyclocross racer who trained for nationals exclusively on a stair master for a month prior due to a broken collarbone. I think he was top 10 maybe top 5 that year.
We use pretty standard programming as far as the met-cons but on the shorter side actually. Not many 20-30 min scorchers. More in the 10-15 min range. We hit a strength circuit in the beginning which consists of a lower body movement, typically a DL but occasionally back squat, a press and a pull. Honestly I think these guys have benefited the most from the direct strength work and just improving their general athleticism. One or two were pretty high level cyclists here but they were borderline feeble on simple movements like air squats. Simple improvements in ROM, recruitment and strength have dramatically improved their on bike performance...and they are generally more capable now.
IME the psychological ability to race long distances and suffer really stemmed from how much importance I attached to an event. I have raced Ironmans where I was not in my best shape, however achieved a better performance (Austria 2005) than when in good shape (Austria 2004), because I had simply attached more importance to the race and was willing to hurt myself more for it! However, having said that, the old addage "Train hard - win easy" really does have some truth to it. The suffering, intelligently calculated suffering that is, should be reserved for training. So that a race, with a well recovered and rested body, just feels easy (ish!). With the right preparation and when in peak condition, even an Ironman can be pushed and feel relatively easy. I have heard European IM winners being interviewed stating that they just couldnt hurt themselves during the race, saying "It was like a dream - effortless speed!" But, back to the original question... When designing a training programme, I like to look at specifically what is required physiologically in the event being targeted, then work backwards from there. A common phsiological theme among elite endurance athletes, especially over longer race distances (2hrs+), is muscle fiber composition. Having a high % of type 1 slow-twitch fibers, and well trained type2a fibers being of the upmost importance. Categorising fibers into 3 or 4 sub-types is really a reflection of the means by which phsiologists measure, detect, and label the fibers. The reality is probably better described as a sweeping continuum of fibers, ranging in characteristic from highly unfatigable ST to stronger but easily fatiguable FT. There are many arguments and counter arguments surrounding the plasticity of muscle fibers, that is their ability to change their charateristics from one type into another... some so much so that they even display altered gene-expression. (This probably only applies in one direction though, FT towards ST, with FT gene expression being the default gene-expression) Personally I like this argument as it puts us back in control. Rather than being victims of our genetics, we may have the ability, at least in this small area to change things providing we are prepared to put in the measured effort. So, my first step in designing the optimal aerobic training protocol would be to target muscle fiber endurance charateristics through as wide a range within the fiber continuum as possible. Response by Robb Wolf Paul- Yes, absolutely. Much in line with the book you sent me (thank you BTW). Epigenics/form following function. Some people obviously have talents with regards to genetics but epigenics...how the environment influences gene expression is of utmost importance.
Posted 5-26-2007 by Michael Hill If I wanted to use something like Poliquin's table for the suggested PWO CHO intake how would I factor in 400m/300m sprints into the formula? I know this may be overcomplicating things, but as far as work/rest differences go the 400m sprints would be done as part of conventional WOD's and the 300m sprints would have 2 min rest periods (I sub 7x300m for the 5 & 10k WOD's whenever they come up). I'm back to doing an ME BB verison of CF w/ triples/singles on the middle day and a short hike (45-60 min) on off days My idea is to use the table modified for the sprints as a PWO CHO guide (coming from sweet potatoes and/or berries) and then eat as much veggies as I can stand for my remaining meals w/zone levels of PRO and fat. I ran the numbers on this using sample WOD's and it seems to average out to about 70%-75% of zone proportions this way, which I think would be sufficient to support intensity given that I basically have 48Hrs between metabolic work. Response by Robb Wolf Michael-
this thread led me to question whether CF has helped me (average person rather than elite athlete) improve in any way.. and i'm changing things up because the answer was "not significantly".
Alicia- I've been doing CrossFit for almost 6 years. When I rolled into the scene the WO's appeared un-doable and it took me about 3-4 months to progress to doing full, unmodified WOD's. From there it was not long before climbing to the top 5% of the CF food chain...this was completely an artifact of my power lifting, OL and gymnastics base. It took me about 2 years to figure out that a VERY good strength base was requisite to top level performance in the Sport of Fitness. RUTMAN actually opened my eyes to this and this is where I started thinking about and tinkering with the Power Bias approach. Here are some approaches I know have worked with regards to CF success: 1-Show up to the game a strong athlete. Josh Everett, Greg Amundson. Show up to the game strong...graft on strength endurance. 2-Calhoon High School Powerlfiting. This was in one of the CFJ's and these folks used some SMART WOD's to increase GPP. If I recall they were using something like a Helen and a Fran mixed among 4 days of periodized block strength work on the squat, DL and bench. These folks make strong PL'ers and some top tier crossfitters. 3-Burgner Franken Fitters. Become an Olifter with the Burgner camp. Incorporate CF in the off season. Kick everyones ass. 4-RUTMAN's ME-Black Box approach. His kid won a 3rd in state with a wicked double leg take down, gnarly conditioning and national level olifts...using the ME Black box approach. 5-Starting Strength- I know Rip has made some very strong athletes who have consequently posted significant CF performances. We saw a trend with our clients...folks got a little stronger, dip numbers went up a bit, pull-ups a bit but we had nothing near top tier performance. We had a couple of collegiate athletes roll in who had PHENOMENAL strength and power bases. A volleyball player (female) and a foot ball player (male) I can think of specifically who were both picked up with good schools and both posted very good scores on CF diagnostics. It was relatively easy to turn these folks into top performers due to their strength and power base whereas our mountain bikers and runners were never going to be better than C or D level CF'ers without significantly more strength. So now most of our non-bariatric/weight loss clients...folks who are actually trying to get high level CF type performance...we have these folks start off with DL, a press and a pull...linear progression until we need to shift to block style periodized training. Then some kind of WOD, sprints or the like. It is very effective. I would not doubt that a Pavelesque approach of 2-3 weeks of strength work followed by 2-3 weeks of met-con might work even better but our clients are crack heads for the Met-cons. I don't think there is any doubt that for most sports, including CF, being as strong as possible, without limiting sport specific practice, is vitally important for success. If one looks at the crossfit.com WOD from several years ago to now one will see a dramatic shift in emphasis reflecting the need for more strength.
Posted 5-31-2007 by Alicia Zhuang that was one of the more informative posts i've ever read on CF and here. it had the kind of objectivity that i was looking for and had specific useful suggestions... plus experience from a personal and trainer's point of view to back it up. coach rut replied to an email i sent him after posting about this at CF, and he suggested Starting Strength with a 8-15 minute WOD after. i think i'll do that and move to ME Black Box when i stall on it. when you say smart WODs like helen and fran, what do you mean? also, you said on the CF forums that you were on the anabolic diet and have moved to zone, cutting down the carb blocks. is there any reason for the move?
Alicia-
That is just a shit load of work...great for a gut check and mental toughness but you really need to monitor how and when you drop those in. A few WOD's like that and there is not much left for strength development IMO. I'll likely be called a pussy for that sentiment but from my own experience of coaching folks and trying to maintain/improve my own athleticism and CF numbers those gigantic scorchers take a bunch. I've bene doing a weighed measure Zoen because we are really pushng our clients to do ti and I felt like if I could nto nut-up an ddo it I had no business recomendign it to others. Lead by example perhaps? I'm adapting...I'm very lean, performance is good but it is a daily struggle. I hate the weighing amdn measurign...always feel a little hungry even at 5x fat...oh well! I just tweak things such that I do ~50% of my carb blocks as fruit in the post WO period and then it makes the later meals easier to manage.
I haven't been around CrossFit as long as most on this board -- only about a year -- but even in that time there's been a big shift in that community. Starting Strength has had a huge impact, to the point where some people are advocating doing that before moving into the WODs. You can't argue with the positive results, but this shift does raise some interesting issues. "Constantly varied, if not randomized" is still a key phrase, but once people identify specific goals they seem to move to a specialized plan, and minimize the variation. For example, the CrossFit Games are coming up. If you wanted to win those events, how would you train? I'm guessing that following the main page WOD wouldn't yield the best performance for the official "sport" of CrossFit. If that's true, what does it say about CrossFit programming in general? I don't really know, but it makes an interesting thought exercise. Response by Robb Wolf Daniel- I commented on this earlier in the thread. Namely that one is not going to achieve the top levels of performance in CF without a significant strength base and one is not going to develop that base from classic CF programming. The constantly varied element is PERFECT for metabolic conditioning...it keeps the stimulus randomized and avoids adaptation and efficiency. That is not the way to go about developing maximum strength. When an analysis of Greg Amundsons performance demonstrates he is capable of 3/4 horsepower output that is testament to his mental toughness, his strength base and his strength-endurance development. He arrived on the scene a BIG strong guy...glazing over that fact does not serve the community of folks who are trying to reach higher levels of performance. Some of the issues of the CF games were also discussed...I think it is pretty good stuff and worth a read...way back in this thread.
That brings me to question...unless you are entering a somewhat LD running race is there any really good reason to get a mile time down to something like 5-6 minutes? Or a person that can sprint the heck out of anything under 100m's and do a mile in around 8 minutes/ In most sports it is a series of sprints up and down field + lateral motion rather than a 5K/marathon. So wouldn't trying to keep the use of the larger, stronger fibers for bursts be more optimal for performance?
Oh absolutely IMO. I don't know if it was Kelly's site or the Dos Remidios site but they had a football preseason conditioning program. 3 days per week of HEAVY lifting and 3 days of a boat-load of sprints. Some up to 100m but loads of 10,20 40 etc. SHORT rest periods too. It looked like an ass kicker if one really got in and hustled on the runs. I think a recommendation like the above might be handy if you are fishing for some low level restoration work AND you are trying like crazy to avoid fiber type transition. It's an interesting balance to keep but one can really enhance that ubber explosive fiber expression via tapering. Loads of hard work...even METcon type CF work mixed with heavy training then, drop the GPP way back and taper the strength/power training. In my practice I will have perhaps one person every 2 years that needs that level of tinkering. Most folks will benefit enormously form a generalist approach. One can also orient training towards a Power Bias. For example instead of a 400m run in a Helen workout one could perform 10x40m shuttle runs, then the rest of the WO. The acceleration/deceration is likely MUCH more specific to most activities than a hard 400m run. I could see folks in the military and police really benefititng form a mix of these approaches.
I'm trying to teach my 13 year old to swing a kettlebell, perform a deadlift, and a squat, and I cannot get him to maintain a neutral back position. In fact, I have an extremely hard time even getting him to bend at the hips, rather than at the spine. Does anyone have any teaching methods they use for this and others for individuals completely unfamiliar with any kind of exercise?
Response by Robb Wolf This seems to be a really common situation. I've found that a little Glute-ham bench work and reverse hypers "wakes up" the awareness of the hips and low back. Standing broad jumps can be a nice unladen method for firing those movement patterns as well.
This may seem a little remedial but here goes...I have always wondered if the 3 weeks of strength, then 3 weeks of MetCon approach works. I've seen it advocated but have never seen anyone actually do it. I've read plenty of folks with strength goals who switch to density work every so often to broaden their work capacity but haven't heard any ringing endorsements. Robb, I had to dig for this one. "So now most of our non-bariatric/weight loss clients...folks who are actually trying to get high level CF type performance...we have these folks start off with DL, a press and a pull...linear progression until we need to shift to block style periodized training. Then some kind of WOD, sprints or the like. It is very effective. I would not doubt that a Pavelesque approach of 2-3 weeks of strength work followed by 2-3 weeks of met-con might work even better but our clients are crack heads for the Met-cons." How much disruption in a basic periodization program does this cause, it is person to person? Is the impact of switching mitigated by sticking with largely teh same movements~ squat for strength then squats in a MetCon format? It seems like switching protocol would take almost a week to acclimate to. Kind of a stepwise approach, two steps forward, one step back?
Dave- I think One can make some pretty good progress in the strength arena doing a fairly mixed approach. Rutman's ME-black box templates of max effort work mixed with met cons being one example. I think the key is to keep the programming smart...not too much volume in the metcons. Stuff like Diane, Fran etc. What we do with our clients is blocks of varying intensity and volume in the strength work...5x5->8x3->10x2...some wave loading...80% of our clients are bariatric/rehabs situations so this is not something that is used extensively with our clients. So...yea, I've not messed around much with 2 weeks of strength, 2 weeks of met-cons as per Pavels recommendations. Interesting stuff. Posted 6-18-2007 by Kevin Mckay (On Arthritis) I found out I have it, was hoping it was gout but no such luck... Not sure if it is rheumatoid or ostio but it recently moved from my hands and wrists to my elbows. If anybody has experience with this let me know. I am not sure if it is ok to workout with a joint when it is flaring up. Response by Robb Wolf RA- Flares from dairy and of course, wheat. Asymptomatic if the diet is 100%. A little beer (wheat free), wine or tequila over ice with lime juice (precious...) never seens to bother me. Get asymptomatic, then add that stuff and see how it goes.
Is there a workout template for CF (if you plan your own workouts relative to your job, sleep, stress, etc. not being optimal), that is available?? I mean, you go from 8 singles of the deadlift, to a 5k run, to Fran, to 440/ 50 GH situps/ Hyper, repeat for 3 cycles, to muscles up and overhead squats. Can you divide up the categories like upper metcon, lower metcon, torso strength, leg endurance, lower limit strength, and then just make up playing cards or dice and let them roll?? I would think if you made them up yourself, you lean twards your strength. Say running and gymnastics, and avoid Olympic Lifts and Military Cal's. A random generator/spreadsheet, would be nice. Response by Robb Wolf Tom- I think there are a million ways to cook those basic principles of intensity, functionality and variance, all to good effect. Like you said, if there is a specific weakness present one can structure the WOD's or some of the warm-up activities to help shore up missing/deficient elements. Here are a few things I've tinkered with:
Scotty Hagnas inspired- 1-gymnastics 2-olift 3-met-con 4-off frequently i used rounds on the heavy bag as my met-con day on this template...again it lends itself to days off when and where you see the need. Great to see you BTW and thank you for the EJJ plug on your blog! Posted 7-7-2007 by Brandon Enos Just wondering which one everyone chooses and why? Structured routines where you know what you will be doing a month or more from now, or more of a random crossfit style? I found that so far the best thing for me is a semi-random schedule. I sit down on Sat or Sun, my rest days and figure out my workouts for Mon - Fri using a hard day, easy day, hard day... template. I also try to leave enough room to make subs if things have to change due to school, weather, etc. I love this style because it keeps things random enough to A.) keep me from getting bored and B.) doesnt let my body adapt to any one thing. It also prevents me from throwing a day out since I know what it is I have to do that day.
Response by Steven Low You'll make more progress (strength and mass-wise) on a structured routine a la programs like Starting Strength tweak a bit to your conditioning level + massive amounts of food. Random is EXCELLENT for GPP. Most people want a decent combination of both.
Response by Robb Wolf Steven pretty much hammered that. Some consistency and structure is important for strength development, potentially detrimental for some elements of conditioning, especially if maintaining strength/power is important. This is an important distinction folks need to make between S&C and their chosen sport. We certainly want efficiency at our sportive endeavors. Brandon-
Posted 7-11-07 by Kevin McKay Well things may be improving but not 100% sure because it usually cycles. I have been 100% grain/dairy free since 06-21-2007 I did eat green beans and hummus once each but thats it, not sure if legumes are an issue here as well. I have cut my multi vitamins that had trace amounts of soy lecithin alfalfa yeast is that overkill? I have been using what Dr G prescribed. Question, can I eat real butter? If things stay the same or improve I will try working out with my arms again next week! Cheers!
Response by Robb Wolf Kevin- legumess can be a problem...I don't notice any issue with green beans or snap peas, but I don't eat them super often. I definitely notice problems using cream in my coffee...I rarely use butter so not sure there. It is a source of a small amount of dairy proteins...I'd try to keep that stuff as clean as possible and then reintroduce and monitor results. No idea on the multi. Posted 7-15-2007 by David Gutierrez Long time lurker, big fan of the PM ... Background ... I try to keep with a 3 on 1 off cycle as much as possible, but it doesn’t always work. It usually jumps between 2-4 days on, 2-4 days off, then 2-4 days back on. The first day back is usually a crapshoot and the workout is scaled to compensate for a shitty sleep cycle, fatigue and poor nutrition. I'll usually cut rounds, reps or weight accordingly to allow for a bit of “reintegration”. Because of this, I have started using the “intervals within intervals” as a way to either regulate fatigue, or maximize power output depending on the day and how I feel. I've kept it pretty simple, generally applying it to WODs where there is a run followed by a weighted exercise/gymnastic movement. Example: 5 rounds: 400m run 95 lb thrusters x 15 pull-ups x 15 If I'm feeling good, I'll usually do a 1:1, maybe 1:2 work/rest ratio (or I'll just pick something like 1 or 2 min as the standard). What I’ve noticed here is that the times will remain fairly consistent across the board, with the exception of the last 1 or 2 rounds—there I’ve noticed a significant burn out in the runs the last 100 meters. The times in the other exercises have remained steady. If I'm not feeling as sharp, I’ll increase to a 1:2, 1:3 or full recovery between intervals. I'll usually drop the weight or cut a round off the workout as well. So far, this has been helpful in regulating fatigue. I could use a bit more strength-specific work ... perhaps ME/OLAD integration, but that is a different topic. Not sure if the poor food/sleep cycle would result in this causing more harm than good. Either way, I am a big fan of the "intervals within intervals" concept and will start using this, as well as the power-bias influenced workouts more often. Input always welcomed. Response by Robb Wolf David-
What is nice about the way you are breaking things up is the intensity is high and the total workload is high but it is not as systemically crushing. The joys of micro-gym/fitness publication lifestyle! Posted 7-17-2007 by Ron Nelson Robo,
I did this with SGDL's at a moderate weight to avoid injury, and paired it with db push presses (single arm). Did 3 reps of each per round. Limited rest to about 20-40 seconds between rounds. Got 11 rounds in 15 minutes. Tried the same thing with pull ups and split squats, but got 12 rounds. Think I'll try the Helen break up one day this week.
I think it's a pretty cool way to plow through a boat load of work but keep things short. Is it how you will develop a top tier Olifter or sprinter? Na, but it does shift things more towards the power side of things will allowing for some met-con type elements. Posted 7-23-2007 by Pat McCarthy I've recently begun to focus heavily on my pull-up form and endurance as I felt my pressing was being limited by weakness in my upper back (by recently I mean within the last 12 months). I've seen great progress, and it has paid dividends in my pressing, but I am having some problems with my pull-ups. I'm a stickler on range of motion and feel I am short-changing myself whenever I do not perform each rep perfectly. However, with pull-ups, after 5 or 6 reps, I find it almost impossible to get the last 2-3 inches of the movement (I can't seem to get the bar all the way to my chest). I feel this is due to weakness in my middle upper back and I was wondering if anybody has some suggestions on how to develop that final portion of the pull. Response by Robb Wolf Pat-
Rope climbs really seem to help my dead hangs as well.
Okay, I started a 5x5 type of program this week. On Wednesday, my press was the bench. I used to have problems with it, but I went back and worked on my form, no more shoulder problems, but thats beside the point. I know in the 5x5 post earlier, the bench was brought up a lot. I know in Starting Strength (great book btw), it is part of the program, but when Mark Rippetoe talks about it, its almost as if he dislikes it and is including it for no other reason then its popularity. My questin is, since I am not trying to become a powerlifter, nor am I in any kind of sport or group where the bench will be a measure of "manliness", should I just do away with it and work on dips and eventually weighted dips in its place? What do you think? Response by Robb Wolf I just like dips and standing press more at this stage of the game...although physio ball DB press is actually kinda fun. Here is an interesting article that advocates....bench press to enhance gymnastics performance. It's essentially a conjugate approach and i think the main point is to use exercises that are close enough to your "sport" to move towards your goals. Posted 8-4-2007 by Ross Hunt Do any of you like to do multiple-set, low-rep circuits for cardio sometimes? I got good bang for my buck out of these in the past and I just started doing them again, out of boredom and a desire to get in a little more strength volume at a low intensity. Keeping the reps low while continuing to do a lot of volume seems like it would have the potential to build up some CV fitness without messing with strength and speed as much as higher-rep cardio. What I have in mind is sets of 5 wih a bunch of exercises for time. Yesterday I did this, for example: 5 rounds of: 5x Back Squat 100kg 5x Overhead Press 50 kg 5x Chin w/ 10 kg I finished in just under 11 minutes--squats were light but I lost all coordination on the overhead press and had to break it starting on the fourth set.
Ross- I've played around with density training in this format before and really like it. Although Staley warns against using movements like cleans, snatches & jerks I find them very productive and fun. Posted 9-1-2007 by James Climer Should you do a lot of direct deadlifting Or something along the lines of Bill Starr's Heavy Good Morning/ Heavy shrugs and Power Clean/ High Pulls method? This is supposed to improve strength in the deadlift pulling muscles without the whole body crash that too much direct deadlifting can induce (in my case anyway). I would also have to guess that progressing toward the freestanding handstand pushup (as complimentary to the press) would take the pressure off the low back, teach whole body tension and work the stabilizers. Comments? Response by Robb Wolf James-
Negatives on the paralettes were very productive for me. GTG style if possible, if not something like 10x1-2 two to three times in a week. Every 3rd WO cut the volume in half...Louie Simmons had a nice article on I think bench assistance exercises and talks about his guys working up to HSPU's on rings...like sets of 15. That is freaking strong. The various bent arm/leg options are more for free standing press to handstands.
If you have ever considered how far and how long to pursue maximal strength for increasing athletic performance, you may find the following discussion interesting.
Yours in Fitness, Coach Sommer Response by Robb Wolf Great stuff coach. That USA gymnastics paper is a great one. I was crunching some numbers on the crossfit games winners and there is an obvious need for a certain level of strength to have the engine to perform, but beyond a certain point additional strength either blunts metabolic conditioning or takes away from time that could be devoted to skill work. I suspect this strength-needs curve is shifted up for gymnasts but a similar scenario is seen. I've been thinking about this in terms of evolutionary biology also in that endurance adaptations come and go quick and easy but strength, especially beyond a certain point is very slow and tough to bring about. Posted 2-15-2009 by Andrew Wilson Here w/f/s. Starts halfway in the podcast Talks about CrossFit Explosiveness Training GSP mixed with sport training GPP/Strength phases Sports specific training Mistakes by strength coaches (mentions CrossFit style & hard circuits, no periodization, long distance training...) He's good, but then again he's sport specific. Response by Robb Wolf Glen Cordoza (one of NorCal's athletes) just won his MMA fight in Louisiana. We followed much the same template we outlined in the Fight Prep guide I wrote for the PM with the main changes being olympic lifts for the base strength work and the removal of the SDLHP from Fight Gone Bad, now substituting a 95# hang power clean (calling this one "Fight Gone Better". FGB was used once per week as a non-sport conditioning session and as a diagnostic. Glen did very little "Crossfit" type training during the last 8 weeks of training as fight pre (time indexed for a 3 round, 5 min/round fight) took up the bulk of his time. Interestingly he managed to score over 400 on FGB on this schedule. He has another fight in a month. One week of lite recovery work, then ramping back up for the next go-around. His off season is shifted to maintenance work for fighting, heavy duty crossfit. It works great for his mental state and keeps him constantly challenged. I really like the work GSP's guy is doing...great stuff there. New coaches really need to keep an eye on recovery and what the weaknesses are in their athletes. "More Work" is not a smart way to tackle that issue!
O-Lifting Posted 5-30-2007 by Dave Van Skike I lift at lunch a couple days a week with a female olympic lifter (she weighs about 135-140) , she lifted in college and does a little for fun now at what was until recently Crossfit North. About a month ago, she talked about wanting to get her back squat up. At that time she was back squatting 80k. We started doing ladders, she did them three days a week, 1,2,3 three progreessions or "rungs" total. added weight when she got all 3 rungs of the ladder (18 reps) She started out with 70k. One month, three days a week and Oly lifting on Saturday. Now four weeks later she did two rungs (1,2,3) with 80 K (her old max from college I think) She says her second pull is getting way faster....
Ladders are awesome. I use these in a density training format also...easy way to both keep track of how much I'm doing and regulate the intensity. It's a lot more fun than gutting out an 8x3 or 10x2 for me. Wave loading is nice in this way also. Posted 8-31-2007 by Ross Hunt What do you say? Are high-rep barbell clean and jerks and snatches a solid, hardcore way to develop metcon, or do they just deliver all the pain of a metcon workout and all the pain of an oly workout with none of the benefit of either? I saw good metcon results from doing Grace on a regular basis a couple years back. I recently did Isabel on a dare and was underwhelemed by the metabolic impact. Of course, I could always just do it faster... I guess. I knocked it out in 4:50, and I was breathing hard, but I definitely wasn't flatlining the way I would during a workout where I wasn't constantly dumping the bar and refixing my grip. Indeed, it seems to me that constant loading of the body greatly intensifies metabolic impact. Any exercise where the body is still loaded while you're resting, or where the athlete is otherwise 'punished' for resting (e.g. repetition full squats-to-broad-jumps for distance with added load) seems to be more productive for metcon. Response by Robb Wolf I like them a lot. Although they may not be as big a scorcher as other WOD's, they are a nice one-stop-shop. Add pull-ups, dips or HSPU and you have a great all around WO. Posted 1-29-2008 by Arden Cogar Jr. Hello all, I'm new to olympic lifting - a complete novice. Lots of years of powerlifting and strength training under my belt, so lots of bad habits to get rid of. In any event, I'm trying to get better at getting into the hole with my squat cleans and my squat snatches - or full cleans and snatches would be a better way too look at it. One of the things I'm finding myself wanting to do is pause at the bottom of each of my regular front squat and back squat workouts to get set before I ascend with the weight. I found myself doing that with my OHS's too. Is this wise? I know that I have to steady myself before I come out of the hole with a heavy squat clean. I've yet to get even remotely heavy with a full squat snatch. Most of my snatches are power snatches if not muscle snatches. But I'm learning. I'm trying to find a more comfortable way of getting down with the weight. Thanks in advance for any input. All the best, Arden Response by Robb Wolf Arden- I think some focus on OHS and snatch balances will really help things. You likely have tons of pull but the comfort to pull under the bar will be a limiting factor and at some point a safety issue. Cleans can be worked from the high hang position and take those to the squat. Empty bar first, then some weight. Strength Training Posted 6-19-2007 by Pavel Saenz I just wanted to pick the brain of the expertes here. I am following the Mass Gain Template and Im really happy with the results so far, in three weeks I have gained a little more than three kilos (around six and a half pounds?). I have dimished drastically aerobic type workouts and a question arose, since I dont know much about biology And if anyone has an article on the subject It would be awesome.
Response by Robb Wolf Pavel- the two approaches need not be exclusionary...it all depends on loading, volume rest periods etc. Look to some of the Density training threads for information...also the "Bear" program in Power To the People. Posted 7-30-2007 by Joe Hart I know picking up stuff and holding it over your head is good for the core. My question is...Using GHD, Situps, back extensions for other core exercises how would you keep that in the Power Bias and strength side of the house? Low reps and higher weight, but what kind of rep range would you stay in? What would be some other lower back and ab exercises?
I really like foot anchored, medicine ball-chuck-sit-ups. If you can throw the ball against a pad and get a quick return this will allow for quick cycle time. Certainly a fave and I'm not averse to working these at pretty high reps (20-30) due to the ballistic nature. Posted 8-13-2007 by Brandon Enos So far, Ive only seen ME Black Box designed with two groups of exercises. For example, first group; clean, back squat, press, second; dead, front squat, dip. Could you do three groups of exercises? For example, 1.) snatch, back squat, press, 2.) clean, front squat, weighted dips, 3.) dead, OHS, weighted pull-ups? The only down side I can see is that it would be kind of a long gap in between groups.
Brandon-
MMA Stuff Posted 6-13-2007 by Sam Cannons Okay i have been rolling for a while but just recently started to get some inflamation in my left ear that looks suspicously like cauliflower ear. It has only just came up in the last few days and i was wondering if any one had any advice on getting rid of it ? I have heard of people draining the fluid, is there any truth to this, has any one had any experience ?? Response by Robb Wolf Yep...a trip to the doc...or someone you trust wielding a syringe and needle to drain the fluid. Ice and rest can help but once it is angry its tough not get it going again. Time for head gear perhaps. Posted 8-30-2007 by R. Alan Hester (On Strength Standards MMA?) Do they exist? Is it too broad of a group to say? Do you think there is a requisite base to allow power production measured against a point of diminishing returns? Ross Enamait quoted a study that stated, “Excessive maximum strength training can impair speed-strength and technical skill in boxers.” So what would be excessive? Alan
Response by Robb Wolf This would be a great article topic. I think someone over at T-nation cooked something up on this topic a few years ago and the strength standards were pretty high IMO. This will vary depending upon the size of the athlete but if you can get a 2xBW squat, 2.5 BW DL, BW standing press and or 1.5-1.75BW bench you will have about all the foundational strength you will need to crush. All that without compromising skill training and sport specific power development. Keep in mind that once a strength base is established (off season) it can be maintained with a relatively small maintenance volume (in season). Ross is just a fucking stud coach...that guy really knows his stuff. I futzed around on this topic a lot and he really clarified some things for me. People cite Siff and Super training regarding the inferiority of concurrent training methods for athletes. Ross made the point that this is true for elite strength athletes but it is sufficient for elite strength levels for OTHER athletes...such as fighters, runners etc. Simple distinction but it eluded me for a very long time. I think that was due in part to a desire to produce an athlete with a top tier PL/OL strength level with crushing levels of metabolic conditioning. VERY tough to do.
Posted 9-6-2007 by Mark Limbaga A strength foundation is definitely important to a fighter. however, let us also consider another factor that we must address: Work capacity It would be very beneficial to a fighter if you can increase his work capacity since this will make him a stronger and more conditioned fighter. For the off-season, a starting strength type program would do great and for the pre-fight roughyl 16 weeks away, ME black box type training and for roughly 12 weeks till a few days to a fight, a density training type program may work really well. I've used this on a couple of fighters, swimmers a triathlete and a whole collegiate basketball team, so far its been working wonders. The one thing I have noticed is that if you do it right, you can increase the conditioning of the fighters while increasing their strength at the same time. A big plus for any fighter since this would just mean more and harder strikes, more ground control and stronger slams.
Response by Robb Wolf Mark- Do you track training volume any specific way? how do you vary the workloads...just by feel or any planning? I found Glen's training to necessitate a day to day approach. A general plan but he might be so torched from the previous evenings sparring we had to completely shift gears for today's training. Category X Posted 7-12-2007 by Chris Hill (Patellar Tendonitis) can anyone advise on the immediate treatment for this? It seems to have crept in with an increase of training frequency and intensity after a lay off. Any hints or tips for treating it? Response by Robb Wolf Chris- Not to dog pile, but if you are doing any type of high rep squat'n ala-crossfit (squats, thrusters D-bal etc). It's imperative that you experience NO anterior knee translations during your movements. Again from the gaping maw of Kelly Starrett, this appears to wickedly tighten the R. Femoris and can contribute to significant knee dysfunction. Posted 7-27-2007 by Allen Yeh I was looking at a Mens Health the other day and came across a brief little blurb that compared 4 natural sweeteners, anyone else used these? Oligofructose - They said it was 100% fiber? Agave nectar - Similiar to honey and still fructose so why not just use honey? Erythritol - sugar alcohol but I can't recall what else they said stevia - not a big fan the few times I have tried this Response by Robb Wolf Welcome to the PM. Agave, like all fructose sources can be a bit misleading if looked at through the lens of Glycemic Index. GI refers to how much an item raises blood GLUCOSE levels. Since agave is a form of fructose it is very slow to raise blood glucose as it must pass through the liver and be converted to glucose. This is a slow process but it does not account for the large insulin response fructose causes nor the hepatic derange that can occur with large fructose intake (think high fructose corn syrup). From a metabolic standpoint one is almost better off using a glucose based sweetener over a fructose sweetener...although fructose does register as sweeter to the taste buds and thus one can get away with a little less of it in some instances. This is why cooks will use "convert sugar" in recipes which is introducing a small amount of acid to regular table sugar to cleave the glucose/fructose, yielding a sweeter concoction with no additional sweetener. My Coffee appears to have kicked in...
I have a new client who takes raniticline for high stomach acidity.
I would like to let her know that an altered diet could potentially stop her from needing the drugs, i presume if she doesn't make changes to her diet the acidity in her stomach would keep on building up. Just wanted to get a second opinion on it all though in-case there are other medical situations to the problem which would need to be taken into consideration. Response by Robb Wolf Nikki...you are looking at someone with metabolic derangement. GERD is a symptom of hyperinsulinism. This person is eating too many carbs, too much refined carbs and I'd bet Greg's testicles, this person is celiac also. Give this a looksie: Yüklə 442,5 Kb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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, what are the differences in the hormonal effects when one follows the Mass Gain workout compared to the ones that also have the aerobic side (say CF)?