BERLIN, GERMANY These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, JUNE 25, 2012 to THURSDAY, JUNE 28, 2012
OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED
The Meeting Overview and Information was presented throughout the meeting. The sections are organized and follow the outline numbering on the agenda and in these meetings minutes.
1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Materials Testing Laboratories Task Group (MTL) was called to order at 9:00 a.m. 25-June-12.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
1.2 It was verified that only Subscriber Members were in attendance for the “Closed” portion
1.3 Introductions – All in attendance were asked to state name, company and voting status
1.4 Code of Ethics/Antitrust and Meeting Conduct was reviewed with the attendees
1.5 Review Agenda - The agenda for the meeting was reviewed.
2.0 AUDIT REPORT REVIEWER DELEGATION OVERSIGHT – CLOSED Rob Hoeth presented the Delegation Summary data for all Audit Report Reviewers. All current delegated reviewers (Kevin Wetzel, Jim Lewis, and Jim Stokes) continue to meet the requirements defined in NOP-003. No change was made to the delegation status.
PRI Staff Engineers Bob Lizewski and Rob Hoeth are reviewing MTL audits as non-delegated audit report reviewers. Audits assigned to these audit report reviewers will need to be reviewed by a quorum of the subscriber voting members prior to accreditation. They will be eligible for consideration for delegated status at the February 2013 meeting based on the one year rule.
ACTION ITEM: Tim Myers to add an agenda item for February 2013: delegation of non-delegated audit report reviewers. (DUE DATE: 25-OCT-12)
ACTION ITEM: Tim Myers to send eAuditNet enhancement request for automated e-mails to identify a delegated/non-delegated status when notifying subscriber of an audit in Task Group review. K. Wetzel to investigate other commodities to if there is a benefit for all commodities. (DUE DATE: 01-AUG-12)
Tim Myers submitted an “issue” for consideration to the Standardization Committee for Subscriber review of the completed audits as required in NOP-003 5.3a. The TG has no guidance or instruction on the expectations of this process. It was discussed in the MTL TG meeting how Subscribers perform this function. There is considerable variation. A lack of training on the expectations of the TG to perform this audit report review function was found.
ACTION ITEM: Tim Myers to add an agenda item for February 2013 meeting to discuss guidelines for expectation of subscribers conducting audit report reviews. (DUE DATE: 25-OCT-12)
3.0 AUDITOR EVALUATIONS / SUPPLIER FEEDBACK / AUDIT OBSERVATIONS– CLOSED The MTLTG reviewed data supplied concerning Auditor Evaluations that are completed by the Audit Report Reviewer and the Supplier Feedback that are completed by the Supplier. There were no issues since the last meeting.
Subscriber Audit Observation Reports were reviewed and discussed. NOP-007 was reviewed as this procedure describes the process for scheduling and participation for an audit observation.
Observers are required to complete form t-frm-01. This form was reviewed. The form is geared toward the auditor only. It was discussed this form should not only address the auditor but also the audit process.
4.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN 4.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
4.2 Introductions– All in attendance were asked to state name, company and voting status
4.3 Code of Ethics/Anti-Trust was reviewed with the attendees.
4.4 Review Agenda - The agenda for the meeting was reviewed
4.5 Approval of the February 2012 Minutes
The minutes of the February 2012 meeting held in San Diego, CA were approved without change.
4.6 Meeting Conduct
Tim Myers explained parliamentary procedure.
5.0 Nadcap TUTORIAL – OPEN The MTLTG reviewed a presentation given by Kevin Wetzel regarding the Nadcap/MTL Policies and Procedures.
In addition to Kevin Wetzel and Jim Lewis listed as staff engineers, Rob Hoeth and Bob Lizewski are now non-delegated audit report reviewers for MTL.
6.0 NEW VOTING MEMBERS – OPEN Jeremy Phillips of Cessna Aircraft was proposed as a Subscriber Voting Member. Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded to accept Jeremy Phillips as a Subscriber Voting Member. Motion passed. Keith Kastner will be the AUVM for Cessna Aircraft. Phil Bretz of Metcut was proposed as a Supplier Voting Member. Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded to accept Phil Bretz as a Supplier Voting Member. Motion passed. Jason Wright of Metals Technology Inc. was proposed as a Supplier Voting Member. Motion made by Frank Lennert and seconded to accept Jason Wright as a Supplier Voting Member. Motion passed. An m-frm-01 was completed for all new voting members.
7.0 FEEDBACK FROM SAN DIEGO MEETING – OPEN A review of the responses from the San Diego meeting was conducted. An e-mail had been sent to attendees for feedback from the San Diego meeting. Approximately 10% responded.
To help with open and real time feedback it was suggested a paper form be available at every meeting; these could be collected every day as people do not always attend everyday/session of the meetings. This would be in addition to an e-mail to solicit feedback from the group.
Tim Myers made a motion to have feedback from the next meeting via e-mail and paper. Motion seconded. Motion passed.
A suggestion was made to add a blank ‘General Comments’ to the feedback form.
Tim Myers made a motion to have the original 3 questions plus a blank ‘General Comments’ section for the next feedback form. Motion seconded. Motion passed.
Daily paper feedback forms are to be collected. Amanda Rickman and Lindsay Schurle volunteered to enter and summarize this data daily and give information to Chair.
A “Confirmation of Agenda” conference call will be held to make any necessary adjustments to the agenda based on the feedback.
ACTION ITEM: Jennifer Kornrumpf to set up the ‘Confirmation of Agenda’ conference call one month prior to the next meeting. (DUE DATE: 19-SEP-12)
Kevin Wetzel explained how to get on e-mail distribution lists as a non-voting member. To receive e-mails from MTL task group, there is a form to be completed and submitted to Kevin Wetzel or Jennifer Kornrumpf. Jennifer will add you to the MTL roster.
8.0 IRR/PT PROGRAM OPERATION – OPEN 8.1 Tim Myers proposed an acceptance/approval letter to be sent to suppliers who have requested their IRR/PT program be approved by the MTLTG.
Muriel Auzanne presented another explanation of the IRR/PT options.
Tim Myers made a motion to table this issue for a sub-team to propose text for a revision to NTGOP-001 Appendix II to define the PT program approval process. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Sub-team volunteers:
Muriel Auzanne (lead)
Olivier Molinas, Subscriber
Corwyn Berger, supplier
Linda Cook, subscriber
Bob Olevson, supplier
Georges Coste, subscriber
John Thomas, supplier
8.2 ILT-Interlaboratory Test S.A. Proposal for PT program
See ‘Meeting Overview and Information’ for the ILT proposal.
Frank Lennert made a motion to require a presentation (verbal/Webex or face to face) to the TG for any PT providers seeking recognition. And revise AC 7101/1E AppC to include this requirement. This will be reviewed by the subteam Motion seconded. Motion passed. ACTION ITEM: Kevin Wetzel (with concurrence of sub-team formed above) to respond to ILT with requirement for presentation to the Task Group. (DUE DATE: 19-OCT-12)
8.3 IRR/PT Delinquency ramifications were discussion.
Muriel Auzanne made a motion to accept the action plan which will ensure compliance with AC7101/1 and close the NCR. A non-sustaining NCR of the same test method would not be accepted. This applies to both initial, reaccreditation and reentry audits. The following MTL Nadcap audit will review action plan for compliance. No reduced accreditation duration is necessary. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Outlier data points within IRR or PT programs were discussed
Lindsay Schurle made a motion to make the following changes to AC 7101/1:
15.4.3 Laboratory investigated any outliers (see definitions) identified from their testing results and documented the results of their investigation along with corrective action(s) taken in response to the investigation as necessary.
Motion seconded. Motion passed. 9.0 PROPOSAL FOR AUDIT HANDBOOK – OPEN Discussion was held concerning the proposal for a MTL Audit Handbook
George Doviak made a motion to proceed with the handbook creation. Motion seconded. Motion passed. It was suggested that an auditor be added to each Technical Advisory Group (TAG).Discussed the purpose, scope and content of the handbook. Participation from the MTL TG was identified as the biggest obstacle.
Also see section 18.0 for further information concerning Audit Handbook
10.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN 10.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
10.2 Introductions– All in attendance were asked to state your name, company and voting status
10.3 Code of Ethics/Anti-Trust was reviewed with the attendees
11.0 PRESENT RESULTS OF RR/PT TEAM AND DETERMINE ACTIONS TO RESLOVE MORATORIUM – OPEN George Doviak called for a vote on this issue after much discussion.
Review pages 6 and 7 of presentation
Muriel Auzanne made a motion to implement the proposed verbiage for statistical selection of IRR/equipment for test C, XA, Y, O. Additionally, add the following intent: IRR or SPC or Gage R&R shall be acceptable for all table 1 (not only for the mechanical one). Note: If multiple pieces of equipment evidence the same deviation from the induced property for the top priority, the deviation for subsequent properties shall be the determining factor. Motion seconded. Yes-8; No-9; Motion does not pass. Jim Rossi made a motion to implement random selection of a minimum of 6 test machines for test codes with machines not repeated in the following IRR cycles until all machines have participated in the IRR program. Motion seconded. Yes-7; No-7 resulted in a tie. The Chairs opened up the vote to the whole room to break the tie. Yes-19; No-13, Motion passed. 12.0 AUDITOR ACTIVITY – OPEN Kevin Wetzel showed Nadcap website for auditor candidates (eAuditStaff.com). Preliminary questionnaire (a-frm-04 and a-frm-04MTL)
MTL has a hard time getting auditor candidates with hands-on experience in the various types of tests. “All-encompassing” auditors are hard to find. Right now all MTL auditors can audit all checklists.
Kevin Wetzel would like some input on the a-frm-04MTL to get more accurate information from auditor candidates.
Kevin Wetzel made a motion to set up a sub-team for NIP 6-01 MTL Appendix plus a-frm-04MTL to revise criteria for the auditor hiring process. Motion seconded. Motion passed.
Team will report out suggested changes at the next meeting.
Volunteers for sub-team:
Kevin Wetzel – Lead
A short discussion was held on how to develop new auditors when they have deficiencies with certain test methods.
Initial Auditor Training course is being rolled out by PRI. The courses will encompass common topics amongst all Nadcap auditors, such as professionalism, auditing skills, NCR writing, etc.
Part of the initial auditor training courses will be presented to the current auditor base in the October auditor conference. (Auditing skills and NCR writing modules will be reviewed)
MTL is working with eQuaLearn to develop Nadcap Audit Preparation material for Materials Testing Laboratories. AC 7101/2 Chemical Analysis is the first material being developed.
13.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN Call to Order / Quorum Check
14.0 AUDITOR CONFERENCE AGENDA – OPEN A request was made for topics and presenter for the October auditor conference:
The Commodity specific conference will be 12pm – 5 pm Saturday October 23, 2012 and 8am - 5pm Sunday October 24, 2012. There will also be the Subscriber/Auditor round table discussion 6pm-9pm Sunday October 24, 2012
Heat Treat TG has asked for a presentation for their auditors concerning Room Temperature Tensile testing. (Supplier - Sherry Laboratory offered their assistance in developing the presentation)
John Sieber – NIST will give a presentation to both the auditors and MTL TG concerning Chemical analysis CRM’s
A portion of the PRI developed Initial Auditor Training course will be given to the current auditors (Auditing skills and NCR writing modules will be reviewed).
Additional topics were discussed:
Auditing for compliance
Top NCR Review per checklist
Audit preparation expectations
Subscriber and suppliers are being encouraged to participate in the development of training material and presentations for the annual auditor conference
Auditors will be contacted for any additional specific training needs.
15.0 COMPLIANCE TO NOP-002 3.3, AC CHECKLIST CHAMPION REPORT, INDUSTRY STANADRDS/SPECIFICATION COMMITTEE PARTICIPATION REPORT – OPEN 15.1 AC Checklist Champion Report-Out
The Champion’s task is to monitor industry standards for changes which impact the MTL checklists; present potential changes at each MTLTG meeting; and drive change as required in a timely manner.
Dave Serbousek AC7101/6:
ISO 9227 has a 2012 revision. No known conflicts with current checklist.
Tim Myers AC7101/4 and /5:
ASTM E92 and E384 were combined; now they are being separated again.
Jim Rossi AC7101/3
ASTM E8 was updated with technical changes. No known impact to current checklist.
Frank Lennert AC7101/9
AMS 2750 is out for ballot. No known impact to checklist at this time.
ACTION ITEM: Kay Fisher to update European standards list in the AC7101/1. (DUE DATE: 22-OCT-12)
15.2 Industry Standards/Specification Committee participation report
ASTM committee rep report
E-04 committee (information supplied by John Chir)
E384-“Knoop and Vickers Hardness” A survey ballot indicated that most E04 members preferred that E384 be separated from E92 and only be a microhardness method.
This means that E384 will be revised and balloted again as a microhardness method and if this ballot passes, E92 will have to be reinstated by E28.
E112-”Determining Average Grain Size” has been revised and successfully balloted. There are several changes but the most significant is in the planimetric procedure.
E45- “Determining Inclusion Content of Steel” has a new Plate I-A replacing Plate Ir. The images are new but represent the same lengths and widths as the old chart. Severity and width information are now included on the plate. There will also be a workshop on inclusion rating during the fall meetings in Atlanta 14-NOV-12. Information on the workshop is available on the ASTM web site
E28 committee (information supplied by Jim Hartman)
E1012 – (Alignment) Revised standard now published
E8 – (Tensile testing) – significant activity regarding “elongation” vs “elongation at fracture.” Data gathering currently underway.
E238 (Pin Bearing) – new revision approved
E18 (HRC) – negatives on new ballot to work out
E140 – (Hardness conversion tables) – negatives on proposed revision to be worked out.
E110 (Portable Hardness testers) – revision activity at subcommittee level.
There is also a lot of discussion regarding putting the Knoop and Vickers macro testing in with the micro testing standard. This is mostly an E4 activity but has some bearing on E28.
ACTION ITEM: Tim Myers to plan agenda time at next meeting to look at ASTME1012 impact on checklist AC7101/3. (DUE DATE: 01-AUG-12)
European Standards Kay Fisher reported
DIN 51418/2 German standard (X-ray spectrometry - X-ray emission- and X-ray fluorescence analysis (XRF)) - Definitions and basic principles for measurements, calibration and evaluation of results is being updated
CEN/TR 10317 Tech report, European Certified Reference materials is being updated
EN 10247 Micrographic examination of nonmetallic inclusions is being revised.
15.3 Compliance to NOP-002 3.3
Lindsay Schurle made a motion to form a team to establish to document references between requirements and audit criteria. Document the references for one technical checklist for the TG discussion in October 2012. TG to review process and result and suggest a path forward. Motion Seconded. Motion passed. Volunteers for sub-team:
Lindsay Schurle (lead)
ACTION ITEM: Rob Hoeth to set up a meeting between CP and MTL staff engineers and Lindsay Schurle to discuss other task group progress on this topic. This meeting should happen before the sub-team sets up their first conference call. (DUE DATE: 27-JUL-12)
16.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN 16.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
16.2 Introductions– All in attendance were asked to state your name, company and voting status
16.3 Code of Ethics/Anti-Trust and meeting conduct was reviewed with the attendees
17.0 SUPPLIER REPORT & DISCUSSION – OPEN Corwyn Berger presented the notes and discussion of a meeting conducted with MTL suppliers and PRI management on 22-FEB-12.
18.0 ADDITIONAL WORK ON HANDBOOK, RR/PT, PR AUDITOR TRAINING PER TASK GROUP CONSENUS – OPEN Jacob Padrul made a motion to accept Technical Advisory Group (TAG) process as proposed. See “Meeting Overview and Information” section 9.0 pages 46 through 58 for proposal. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Amanda Rickman made a motion to put the TAG process into the Audit Handbook. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Tim Myers presented his draft of the Audit Handbook. Review “Meeting Overview and information” Section 9.0 pages 41 through 63 for further information.
Tim Myers presented proposed changes to AC7101/1.
Kay Fisher made a motion to put proposed audit handbook out for review and take a final vote October 2012 in Pittsburgh. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Tim Myers made a motion to create a sub-team to meet every two weeks to draft an audit handbook version to be presented in Pittsburgh. Motion seconded. Motion passed. Volunteers for sub-team for audit handbook draft:
Kevin Wetzel or Rob Hoeth
Tim Myers (Lead)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-Team to present draft audit handbook at the October 2012 Nadcap meeting in Pittsburgh. (DUE DATE: 22-OCT-12)
19.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN Call to Order / Quorum Check
20.0 SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE REPORT – OPEN Corwyn Berger presented an overview of the SSC and items of interest from the SSC meeting. For complete details, see the SSC Minutes posted on www.pri-network.org.
21.0 REVIEW PLANNING & OPS MEETING AGENDA – OPEN Tim Myers presents the agenda for the Planning and Ops Meeting which is scheduled for Wednesday afternoon.
The agenda of the Planning and Ops meeting was reviewed. There was no further discussion. For complete details, see the Planning and Ops meeting minutes posted on www.pri-network.org.
22.0 REVIEW MTL TOP FINDINGS PER CHECKLIST– OPEN
The group would like to see additional column on top finding chart (list auditors by code, sector Asia/Europe/Americas, NCR element) were mentioned.
Kay Fisher made a motion to establish a sub-team to complete deep dive investigation onto top 1 NCR of each checklist after the February 2013 meeting. Sub-team to present results of deep dive in June 2013 with proposal for topics in Auditor Conference 2013. Motion seconded. Motion passed. 23.0 AUDITOR EXPECTATIONS – OPEN Muriel Auzanne made a motion to communicate that auditors shall not judge adequacy of root cause investigation. They shall assess compliance to the corrective action process to prevent reoccurrence. Motion seconded. Motion passed. ACTION ITEM: Communication to be conducted during the October 2012 auditor conference. Added to the 2012 MTL Auditor conference agenda (DUE DATE: 22-OCT-12)
24.0 ADDITIONAL WORK ON HANDBOOK, RR/PT, OR AUDITOR TRAINING – OPEN See section 18
25.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN 25.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
25.2 Introductions– All in attendance were asked to state your name, company and voting status
25.3 Code of Ethics/Anti-Trust was reviewed with the attendees.
26.0 FINALIZE OCTOBER 2012 MEETING AGENDA – OPEN Revise audit handbook
Convene Auditor Conference
Define and approve a process for RR/PT program approval
Work compliance plan for NOP-002 3.3
Conclude the auditor hiring a-frm-04 form/process improvement
Report from supplier attendance at Auditor Conference Proposed Agenda October 2012
27.0 MTL PROGRAM STATUS – NMC METRICS – OPEN The NMC metrics were presented by Kevin Wetzel and reviewed by the Task Group
NMC goal for a MTL audit is 52 days from time the audit is completed to the cert issued.
28.0 NEW BUSINESS / RAIL / MEETING FEEDBACK – OPEN RAIL items were reviewed
ACTION ITEM: Kevin Wetzel set-up a conference call (with Lennert, Rossi, Berger) to address RAIL Row #297. (DUE DATE: 20-OCT-12)
ACTION ITEM: In response to RAIL row #299, Ed Spanknoble to send Frank Lennert his flowed down requirement from Boeing for fastener specific requirements and copy Tim Myers & Kevin Wetzel (DUE DATE: 27-JUL-12)
ACTION ITEM: Tim Myers to add to Oct 2012 agenda 30 minutes for Julian Corato presentation of AGS PT 3 year program offerings. (In response to RAIL Row #301) (DUE DATE: 01-AUG-12)
ACTION ITEM: Rob Hoeth to ask Heat Treat TG if AC7101/4 table is needed. This is repeated in /1 checklist (In response to RAIL row # 369). (DUE DATE: 01-AUG-12)
29.0 MEETING SUMMARY – OPEN There was a last minute addition to the agenda:
First Question concerned IRR for every operator/every two years. The supplier has three separate department conducting hardness testing. What is the expectation of the Task Group for every operator when it spans multiple departments?
TG reply: If they are really separate departments (independent) the consensus of the TG - they do not need to include all in one IRR but each department would need to conduct IRR for each operator of that department. But if the labs would use each department as a back up when equipment is down, then a comparison is needed of all is required.
Second question. IRR application in case of multiple operators/test machines
TG Reply: The guidance missing is that “multiple operators and multiple machines require IRR for equipment AND operators”. It is required to conduct IRR between operators – when multiple operators are approved for the given test method. It is required to conduct IRR between machines when multiple machines are used for a given test method.
Meeting Feedback - General comments
The agenda format was reviewed. New agenda format is great. The level of detail is a great improvement. Organization was key.
The meeting room set up was also discussed the arrangement of chairs, tables and screen to allow people to see each other, see the projector, increased work space, microphone added for easier listening.
30.0 OPENING COMMENTS – CLOSED 30.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check
It was verified that only Subscriber Members were in attendance for the “Closed” portion
30.2 Code of Ethics/Antitrust and Meeting Conduct was reviewed with the attendees
31.0 DID THE MEETING ACCOMPLISH SUBSCRIBERS NEEDS – CLOSED Subscribers commented Yes the meeting accomplished their needs.
32.0 MTL LEADERSHIP WRAPUP – CLOSED Closing comments.
ADJOURNMENT – 28-Jun-12 – Meeting was adjourned at 4:40 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Amanda Rickman, Amanda.Rickman@raytheon.com
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)