Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
Yüklə 25,47 Mb.
|
_____ Thank you, Fiona, for posting the Wired article, it is thoroughly enjoyable as an outside-AA examination of our Fellowship. Looking it up on the website, at least 30 'comment' responses have arrived to its publishing date of a few days ago. As most 'comment' sections seem to show various levels of support, contempt, sound bites, and counterpoint, it's an unedited "good, bad, and ugly" forum.From my perspective, the replies from recovered alcoholics and addiction counselors brought out one trait to blend with the Internet trilogy (good, bad, ugly): insight.
the text. Are these foot notes, 21st Century style,
distraction? J On its points of AA history the article alludes to too many tangential and obscure examples that do not explain AA's resilience over the years, and some of the author's example items are downright distracting to this historian. Still, the article sets up the reader's challenge to answer the title's question, just as the 'comments' section develops a wide range of answers. How, Why, and When? In my own 25th year of sobriety, I keep finding that the simple four point description of early AA recovery is exactly how our 'method' continues to work:
careful actions of our multi-layered, diverse group of recovered individuals.
"me" doing the needed footwork to move up to the "we." And the "when"? The AA Fellowship has brought me a lifetime of constructive discovery to every new day since I admitted powerlessness over alcohol. After that I knew I was no longer helpless, and I get reminded of this fact (not being helpless anymore) at every meeting I participate in. There's laughter and joy and challenge and growth from participating in the AA Fellowship, and I'm responsible to try out any of the 'simple kit of spiritual tools'
too.
the results of lives reclaimed and lives restored to health.
results, and I'm thankful and better off today because of them. Best regards to all, Rick T., Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6672. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Use of the word sponsor From: Sherry C. Hartsell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/26/2010 12:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The practice of being responsible for PAYMENT was still loosely in practice when I came into AA in 1967, though it had come to imply that whoever BROUGHT the person to the hospital for detoxification was agreeing to follow-up with the patient, visit in the hospital and most likely pick the patient up upon their being discharged and accompany him/her to AA Meetings for some extended period of time following discharge from the brief hospital de-tox ---most often this was a "County or City" hospital that by State statute had a certain number of beds "set aside" for that particular purpose, not one which had a regimented or formal Treatment Program.
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Moore Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:40 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Use of the word sponsor
I would like to add to this question. I have heard that the term "sponsor" as it was in general use in the US when Bill and Bob were getting started, carried with it an implied financial responsibility.
picking up their tab. For example, if my brother was to sponsor me at City Hospital, he would be paying for my treatment If this is correct, it would be a logical reason why the term "sponsor" does not appear in the first 164 pages. In time, the meaning of the word changed. John M South Burlington, Vermont * On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, royslev >
> I have an early AA history question. Most of us are aware that the actual > (the equivalent term "spiritual adviser" is used on page 63). > > Yet when listening to AA pioneer Clarence Snyder's recordings in which he > talks a lot about early program history when they were still going to Oxford
> Group meetings before 1939 he refers to Dr. Bob as his "sponsor." > > So my question is really for Oxford Group history experts: Was the term > sponsor a common Oxford Group usage? Was it a common term used by members of > the "alcoholic squadron" of the Akron or New York Oxford groupers even > though it was omitted by Bill in our basic text? > > When did the actual word sponsor come into common usage among AA members > (we all know it's on every other page of the 12&120 ? > > I've done a search for the discussion thread on the word "sponsor" in the > AA historylovers group but this is a more precise question. > > Thanks for feedback. > > Roy L. ( class of `78 ) > royslev@verizon.net > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6673. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AAHL -- SAN ANTONIO -- 3-5:00 Sat. July 3 From: royslev . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/26/2010 2:06:00 PM
presenting at the International. Jay S. is a real "expert" on Oxford Group history. Thought I'd pass this on:
"A.A.'s History of Love and Service" International A.A. Conference 1:30 p.m., Friday, July 2, 2010 An informative and entertaining panel Gail L., Akron.Ohio Art S. , Arlington, TX Jay S., Redondo Beach, CA Paul C., Oceanside, CA Location: Alamo Ballroom Marriott Riverwalk (Across the street from Convention Center) --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Chesnut > > MAIN AA HISTORY LOVERS GET-TOGETHER > at the San Antonio International, 3:00-5:00 p.m., > Saturday, July 3, 2010 > in the AA Online hospitality suite (Crockett > Suite A/B) at the Grand Hyatt Hotel (the main > convention hotel). > > The AA Online hospitality room will be open continuously from Thursday through Saturday. The New York GSO has suggested this to us as an ideal place for members of the AAHistoryLovers to meet. So if you have some free time, come in and sit down and have a cup of coffee and chat. I'll be there when I'm not otherwise involved, and so will some of our other members, I believe. > > Glenn Chesnut, Moderator > AAHistoryLovers > > OTHER EVENTS: > > ======================================== > Friday, July 2, 2010 > ======================================== > > 12 noon - 1:00 p.m. > GSO Archives, in the Henry B Gonzalez Convention Center -- we will have some
tables and chairs at our disposal and Michelle Mirza, the GSO Archivist, has agreed to briefly chat with us. A good chance to learn more about the historical resources in the New York AA Archives. > > 1:30-3:00 p.m. > Arthur S. of the AAHistoryLovers will be one of the 3 speakers participating in the Archives AA History Workshop at the MRW (Marriott River Walk). > > ****3:30-5:00 p.m. > AN ADDITIONAL GOOD OPPORTUNITY to meet a few AAHL members for anyone who can't
make the Saturday afternoon meeting: all members of the AAHistoryLovers who want
to, can meet and discuss Arthur's talk in the AA Online hospitality suite, Crockett Suite A/B, at the Grand Hyatt Hotel. Or just sit down and have a cup of coffee, and have an informal conversation with some of the other AAHL members sitting around the table. > > ======================================== > Saturday, July 3, 2010 > ======================================== > > 1:00-2:30 p.m. > There will be a presentation on the History of AA in New Jersey in the hospitality suite at the Grand Hyatt in the Bonham Room. > > ****3:00-5:00 p.m. > MAIN A.A. HISTORY LOVERS GET-TOGETHER > In the AA Online hospitality suite (Crockett Suite A/B) at the Grand Hyatt Hotel. No program, just come in and sit down and have a chat, and get to know
some of your fellow AAHL members over a good cup of coffee. > > ======================================== > > ALSO:
> > 11:00 a.m. Friday and Saturday, July 2 and 3 > > "In Our Own Words: Pioneers of Alcoholics Anonymous" > at La Condesa / El Mirador Rooms (22nd Floor) > Hilton Palacio del Rio, 200 South Alamo Street. > > This original play dramatizes the first-hand accounts of the > founders and pioneers of A.A., including the early members > of special composition groups in the fellowship. Performed > by a group of the SF fellowship. > > ======================================== > [as revised 6/24/10] >
++++Message 6674. . . . . . . . . . . . Fw: [AAFB] OT: Some AA History ..... From: Lynn Sawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/27/2010 2:10:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Sent by another member of AAFirmBelievers, an online grp., thot I'd share it w/all youse guys, too. It's an interesting read. Lynn S. alcoholic Sacramento, CA Bill Dotson - AA Member #3 "The Man On The Bed"
"That is, people say he died, but he really didn't," wrote Bill Wilson. "His spirit and works are today alive in the hearts of uncounted AA's, and who can
doubt that Bill already dwells in one of those many mansions in the great beyond."
had a drink in more than nineteen years. His date of sobriety was the date he entered Akron's City Hospital for his last detox, June 26, 1935. Two days later
occurred that fateful day when two sober alcoholics visited him: Dr. Bob Smith
of Akron, Ohio, and Bill Wilson, a guest of Dr. Bob's from New York. A few days before, Dr. Bob had said to Bill: "If you and I are going to stay sober, we had better get busy." Dr. Bob called Akron's City Hospital and told the nurse, a "Mrs. Hall," that he and a man from New York had a cure for alcoholism. Did she have an alcoholic customer on whom they could try it out?
She replied, "Well, Doctor, I suppose you've already tried it yourself?" Then she told him of a man who had just come in with DT's, had blacked the eyes
of two nurses, and was now strapped down tight. "He's a grand chap when he's sober," she added. Dr. Bob prescribed some medications, and then asked her to transfer him to a private room. He also put him on a diet of sauerkraut and tomatoes. That's all he was allowed to eat during his hospitalization. The nurse told Dr. Bob and Bill that Bill Dotson had been a well-known attorney
in Akron and a city councilman. But he had been hospitalized eight times in the
last six months. (Bill Wilson sometimes said "six times.") Following each release, he got drunk even before he got home. Bill's wife, Henrietta Dotson, had talked to Dr. Bob and Bill earlier. When she
told her husband she had been "talking to a couple of fellows about drinking" he was furious at her "disloyalty." When she told them that they were "a couple of drunks" Bill didn't mind so much. Henrietta apparently had quite a conversation with the two men, and she told her
husband that their plan for staying sober themselves was to tell their plan to another drunk. Years later, Bill Dotson reflected on the jumbled thoughts in his mind as his
wife left and he began to lapse back into withdrawal stupor: "All the other people that talked to me wanted to help ME, and my pride prevented me from listening to them, and caused only resentment on my part, but I felt as if I would be a real stinker if I did not listen to a couple of fellows for a short time, if that would cure THEM." So Dr. Bob and Bill talked to what may have been their first "man on the bed."
They told him of the serious nature of his disease, but also offered hope for a
recovery. "We told him what we had done," wrote Bill, "how we got honest with
ourselves as never before, how we had talked our problems out with each other in
confidence, how we tried to make amends for harm done others, how we had then
been miraculously released from the desire to drink as soon as we had humbly asked God, as we understood him, for guidance and protection." But Bill Dotson was not impressed. He said, "Well, this is wonderful for you fellows, but can't be for me. My case is so terrible that I'm scared to go out of this hospital at all. You don't have to sell me religion, either. I was at one time a deacon in the church and I still believe in God. But I guess he doesn't believe much in me."
"different.") But he did agree to see Dr. Bob and Bill again. They came again the next day, and for several days thereafter. When they arrived on July 4, they found Bill's wife, Henrietta, with him. Eagerly pointing at them, he said to his wife: "These are the fellows I told you
about, they are the ones who understand." Before they could say anything, he told them about his night, how he hadn't slept but had been thinking about them all night long. And he had decided that if they could do it, maybe he could do it, maybe they could do together what they couldn't do separately. It was apparently on that day that he admitted he couldn't control his drinking
and had to leave it up to God. Then they made him get down on his knees at the
side of the bed and pray and say that he would turn his life over to God. Before
the visit was over, he suddenly turned to his wife and said, "Go fetch my clothes, dear. We're going to get up and get out of here." He walked out of that hospital on July 4, 1935, a free man, never to drink again. AA's Number One Group dates from that day. That Fourth of July they had plenty to celebrate. So they had a picnic. The Smiths, Bill Wilson, the Dotsons, and Eddie Riley, the first alcoholic they tried to help were there. (Eddie didn't get sober at first, but later he did,
and Eddie said in a talk that there were two firsts in A.A. -- the first one who
accepted the program and the first who refused it.) Within a week, Bill Dotson was back in court, sober, and arguing a case. But at first his wife was doubtful. He had previously gone on the wagon and stayed sober for long periods. But then he drank again. Would this time be different? And he hadn't had that sudden transforming experience that Bill Wilson talked
about. When Lois Wilson visited Akron in July of 1935, Henrietta shared these fears with her, and asked Lois whether she ever worried about her Bill drinking again. Lois answered without hesitation, "No. Never." The message had been successfully shared a second time. Dr. Bob was no fluke.
And apparently you did not have to be indoctrinated by the Oxford Group before
the message could take hold. The three worked with scores of others. "Many were called but mighty few chosen;
failure was our daily companion. But when I left Akron in September 1935, two or
three more sufferers had apparently linked themselves to us for good," wrote Bill.
Kurst seems to think it was because Bill Dotson's "credentials," were apparently too blatant: highly respectable upper middle-class background, above average education, intensive youthful religious training which had since been rejected, and former social prominence recently nullified by such behavior as his assault on two nurses. In a 1952 discussion with Bill D., he was asked why his story hadn't appeared in the first edition of the Big Book. He said that he hadn't been much interested in the project or perhaps had even thought it unnecessary. He also said that Bill Wilson had come out to Akron to record his story, which would be in the next edition of the book. It appears in the Big Book as "AA Number Three."
that
Bill Dotson, was indeed a grand chap when sober. They remembered him as one of the most engaging people they ever knew." One said: "I thought I was a real big shot because I took Bill D. to meetings," Another noted that, though Bill Dotson was influential in the area he was not an
ambitious man in AA. "He wasn't aggressive, just a good A.A. If you went to him
for help he would give you help. He would counsel with you. He never drove a car, but he went to meetings every night. He'd stand around with his thumbs in his vest like a Kentucky colonel. And he spoke so slowly, you wanted to reach out and pull the words from his mouth. I loved to be around him. He put you in mind of a real 'Easy Does It' guy -- Mr. Serenity." His wife, looking back in 1977, described him as "a great alcoholic who, like
other alcoholics, didn't want to get drunk." She reportedly remembered telling
her pastor, "You aren't reaching him. I'm going to find someone who can, if I have to see everyone in Akron," and she prayed with the pastor of another church that someone her husband could understand would visit him in City Hospital, where he had been admitted with "some kind of virus."
keeps
referring to him in the literature as "old Bill D." [Bill Dotson was 43 when Bill and Dr. Bob found him, just 3 years older than Bill and 13 years younger than Dr. Bob.] In a memorial to Bill Dotson, Bill Wilson wrote: "The force of the great example
that Bill set in our pioneering time will last as long as AA itself. Bill kept
the faith -- what more could we say?" SOURCES: "Alcoholics Anonymous", "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers", "The Language of the Heart", Bill W.'s Grapevine Writings, "Bill W." by Robert Thomsen, "Not God" by Ernest Kurtz, "Bill W." by Francis Hartigan, "My Search for Bill W." by Mel B.
on the European Continent From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/27/2010 1:48:00 PM
1948. This is a short version. American Servicemen stationed in West Germany after WW:II brought AA with them.
Those early english-speaking meetings were held on various Army and Air Force
Bases in cities like Munich, Wiesbaden, Heidelburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and more. The first and formal recorded invitation to an open meeting in West Germany was on November 1, 1953 in Munich at the Hotel Leopold in Schwabing. Master Sargeant Bob S., who is remembered today for having been very active in carrying the AA message, led the meeting and the Germans were heartily invited to attend. Max had attended the meeting and got sober and was involved in the German AA in carrying the message. Traveling and working Americans and Britains were also instrumental in helping
start groups in such cities as Frankfurt (1948), Paris (1947), Naples (1976),
Hamburg (1962, witbillh the help of a Mr. Abels from England) and Düsseldorf (1962, with the assistance of Robert from Chicago). (Archives German AA). A member remembers that the RAmstein Air Base held its first meetings there in 1962 at the South Side Chapel. In the early days there were about 20 active english-speaking AA groups in West Germany. Besides Ramstein, the Wiesbaden group had the strongest sobriety and its members would carry the message to the ARmy and Air Force Bases. The 1961 World Directory lists 20 AA groups (Loners) and about 170 members. In 1962, Wiesbaden held its 10th annual Roundup in the High school auditorium. At the 11 th Roundup, An invitation was extended to Bill W. to attend the meeting andto share his story.. Bill gracefully declined and sent them his best wishes for a successful Roundup. In AA TODAY, published on Grapevines 25th anniversary,Wiesbaden and its Roundups are mentioned. "Much of AAs spread around the world, of course, has been accomplishedby US servicemen and seamen who-needing to stay sober in strange surroundings- started their oun groups. There are several now in (continental) Europe and 1952 there has been an annual Roundup on Wiesbaden, Germany for any AA member in Europe who can get there. Hundreds do- by bus, car, train,plane and even helicopter. During the meetings, all military members remove their blouses and caps so the anonymity of AA erases all ranks." As the membership in the groups grew, it was found necessary to form an Intergroup in the Greater Frankfurt Area. (1962). American and German groups were represented. This led to forming an Intergroup for West Germany. In 1971, A letter was sent out from an AA member to all the english speaking groups to attend an Intergroup meeting at the Sembach Air Base. There the Intergroup was geographically divided into 6 areas with each area to elect its own secretary and so the areas represented at the Intergroup meeting. By 1973, there were 9 areas in the Intergroup, It was decided that Intergroup sponser a Round up each year. first Round up was held in Wiebaden, Rhein Main Bill was the first Committee chairman. The Intergroup grew fast. It became an International Intergroup Continenal Europe (1980) and included Finnland, the Netherlands, Greece, Italy, Sweden, Iceland, Switzerland. The Intergroup felt that is was time that the extra-territoral service structure in Continental Europe had a say in the shope of AA by becoming part of a Conterence structure. Intergroup sent a letter to GSO New York about their situation in Europe requesting an opinion. GSO New York wrote to Intergroup stating, "the purpose of becoming part of the service
structure is mainly communications and it seems to us that your day to day dealings are mainly with the European AA community for which the London office functions as a communications coordinator." At the Intergroup meeting in February 1981, the motion as made to join the Conference structure in GB, but there was no second. the motion was withdrawn. Intergroup continued to send 2 delegates to Conference in GSO Great Britain in Manchester. The International Intergroup continued to grow. In 1982 there were 13 registered Areas and by 1985 there were 15 areas in the International Intergroup. including most of the countries on the western part of the Continent. This too has changed now. In 1985, a restructure meeting was held in Nurnberg, inviting Jack from London
to speak and share about GSO Great BRitain, inviting Intergroup to become a Region within their structure. (Bill W. had had this idea already when he visited Europe in 1950). This time the motion was seconded and passed. The 15 areas were divided into 3 Intergroups covering all of Western Continental Europe. 6 delegates are sent to Conference each year. We are the largest region within all service structures. There was and is always the problem of distances and communication. This brought on the idea to form more intergroups. There about 11 Intergroups, active and inactive, now on the Continent. The military drawdown in 1992, decreased the membership. The military had always been active in AA. This drawdown closed alot of meetings. This has not hindered the REgion at all. The goal has always been to carry the message
to the still suffering alcoholic. This meant that we needed a central telephone number which was has been fulfilled in Germany. By 1998, we had a Webmaster and he was advised to use the guidelines from York (GSO Great Britain).(www.aa-europe.net). We are in contact with the Host Nations. REgion 15 is called Continental European REgion (CER). We have been holding the REgion meetings in various cities on the Continent, giving as many members as possible an Idea of what is going on in our Service structure. (Distances and Communication.) We are geographically widespread and encourage all english-speaking members to participate and carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic. This is a very condensed history of CER-Continental European Region 2010 Dolores
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6676. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: royslev . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/26/2010 9:11:00 PM
asked me
to make clear that the current incarnation of the Oxford Groups is called "Initiatives of Change" not "Christian Initiatives" as incorrectly stated below by me. Totally my error. Jay emphasized to me that I.C. is a spiritual not a religious program, no official connection with any religion, including any Christian group. For the purposes of AA history lovers his association with it is an "outside issue." But to me he's still an "expert" on the Oxford Groups. If anybody wants any clarification on this modern day evolved version of the O.G., Jay directs us to this website: www.iofc.org --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Roy Levin > > I contacted my AA buddy Jay S. on this topic. Jay will be giving one of the talks on AA history at the upcoming Interntational on Friday, I believe. >  > Jay is an expert on early Oxford Group history and has collected first editions of their literature ("What Is The Oxford Groups?") and heard recordings or interviewed older members. >  > He even went so far as to join the vestigial remnant of that organization which I believe is now known as "Christian Initiative" or something like that. I
forget the name, but Jay showed me pictures of his retreat at their headquarters in Switzerland where they rendezvous annually. > Â
> Jay says he's heard or read accounts by early members which indicated that the
word "sponsor" was indeed in common usage by the O.G. members. Yes, it did sometimes mean that one person might pay for the hospital stay ( about $50 in depression era ) for an alkie's detox if we're talking about the "alcoholic squadron" of the O.G. > Â
> But for the non alcoholic members of the O.G. which you realize were numerically superior to the drunks ( we were in a minority ) the term "sponsor" was used commonly much in the same way we use it today, i.e. as someone who introduces you to the the group and undertakes your early training in spiritual practice. A sponsor is a "mentor" in definition and practice, and note the word "protege" is used in our Big Book. The opposite of a protoge is a patron or mentor in common usage, i.e. a "sponsor." >  > To sum it up, O.G. expert Jay says the term comes from the Oxford Groups. If you're attending the convention catch his talk or Friday and query him in person. I plan to be there myself. > Â
> Roy L. ( class of `78 ) > > --- On Thu, 6/24/10, Roy Levin > > > From: Roy Levin > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 8:20 AM > > > Â > > > > Where is this reference to the use by Oxford Group members of the word "sponsor" in the same sense of a baptismal Godfather term? Is it in any of their
literature? > > - - - - > > From: J. Lobdell > Subject: Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship > > <<... the OG used the term "sponsor" more or less in the sense used of Godparents in Sacramental Baptism -- and btw at Calvary, Bill was Ebby's sponsor.>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
From: schaberg43 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/28/2010 10:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have just finished reading a new book on the history of Prohibition (1920-1932) and I would like to recommend it to anyone who is interested in this important period just preceding the founding of AA. The book is "Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition" by Daniel Okrent (2010).
for my own information, which I will share here: This book on "the rise and fall of Prohibition" that got an excellent review in the New York Time Sunday Book Review. In general, I would agree with that assessment although I felt the writing – at times – got just a bit too "cute"
for a book that purports to be a serious history. Who knew? I thought I had a fairly good grip on this phase of American history – and one that is so relevant to the history of AA. But I did not. There were lots
of interesting and intriguing facts and perspectives in this lovely book. For instance, I didn't know that the Temperance forces had to first get an amendment passed allowing an Income Tax – so that they could then ban liquor, the primary source of the federal government's income. Nor did I have any idea of how radical and intrusive this amendment (and the subsequent Volstead Act to implement the amendment) was in relation to every-day Americans and what a potent revolution this was in relation to our concepts of government. Also, I was surprised that Prohibition – something I think of as almost `Fascist' – was all but universally supported by what in those days were called "progressives." Or how much Wheeler and Sabin had to do with the adoption and repeal of Prohibition respectively.
facts and insights contained in this book. All in all, a very good book and one that I enjoyed immensely. Because Prohibition so closely preceded – and influenced – the founding of our
Fellowship, I think this is an important book for anyone with an interest in the
early history of AA. Best, Old Bill IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6679. . . . . . . . . . . . New York Times From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/29/2010 1:35:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill Wilson's Gospel By DAVID Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|