Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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> > Does anyone know the identity of the first > black woman in AA? I am in the process of having and old audio library digitized, Several of the talks that I have found are labeled "colored group", one group was called group #43 and the panel discusses the steps. Dated 1959. I'll look for earlier ones. Mike F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5694. . . . . . . . . . . . Is there anyone with 60 yrs or more of sobriety still alive? From: Shane . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2009 12:36:00 AM
Los Angeles. On June 27,2009 we are having a birthday party for Dick C. of Ontario, Ca. He is 95 yrs old and has 60 yrs of sobriety. We were told that he is the oldest living member of AA with 60 yrs of sobriety.
is that old with 60 yrs or more of sobriety??? His two sons, and the local AA community would like to know. Shane P. Area 5 Archivist IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5695. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: illness vs. disease From: marionoredstone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 8:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: From (MarionORedstone at aol.com) Footnotes from my upcoming book Inside these Rooms From E. Kurtz, PhD, Monograph Alcoholics Anonymous and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism (2000) In 1938, while preparing the manuscript of the A.A. Big Book, Bill Wilson asked Dr. Bob Smith (a proctologist) about the accuracy of referring to alcoholism as a disease or one of its synonyms. Bob's reply, scribbled in a large hand on a small sheet of his letterhead, read: "Have to use disease -- sick -- only way to get across hopelessness," the final word doubly underlined and written in even larger letters.
alcoholism as disease after he had addressed the annual meeting of the National Catholic
Clergy Conference of Alcoholism in 1961: âWe have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady --â“ far safer term for
us to use.â In A.A.âs pamphlet, 44 Questions, the answer to the question What is Alcoholism? It is said: There are many different ideas about what alcoholism really is. The explanation that seems to make sense to most A.A. members is that alcoholism is an illness,
a progressive illness, which can never be cured but which, like some other illnesses, can be arrested. Going one step further, many A.A.s feel that the illness represents the combination of a physical sensitivity to alcohol and a mental obsession with drinking, which, regardless of consequences, cannot be broken by will power alone. - - - - From GFC: what does the Big Book actually say? 3 TIMES: The word "disease" appears three times in the A.A. Big Book. It is said explicitly (in the first instance) or implied by context (in the other two usages) that alcoholism is a "spiritual disease." It is mentioned first on page 64 in discussing alcoholism: "Resentment is the 'number one' offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically." Note that the words disease, ill, sick, and malady are treated by Bill Wilson here as exact synonyms. All four words meant exactly the same thing in the Big Book when it was published in 1939.
of the book in the story of Bill Dotson, the Akron lawyer who was Alcoholics Anonymous Number Three, the word disease is also used. When Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob visited Dotson in the hospital, they told him he had "a disease," and when he explained his spiritual conversion to his wife, he told her he felt that God had cured him "of this terrible disease." So the word disease may only appear 3 times in the Big Book, but in each instance, it was a vitally important time, where Bill Wilson was talking about the very heart and core of the AA program.
Sick, sick person, or sickness on pages 18, 64, 67, 90, 92, 100, 101, 106, 107, 108, 115, 139, 140, 141, 147, 149, 153, 157, and 164.
Ill or illness on pages 7, 18, 20, 30, 44, 92, 107, 108, 115, 118, 122, 139, 140, and 142.
Malady appears on pages 23, 64, 92, 138, 139, and 165.
The words ail or ailment are used on pages 135, 139, 140.
(jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) Friends, I don't recall using the phrase "what early AA people believed"; I quoted Bill W and the Big Book.
as a disease entity and went so far as to say AA didn't use the term, preferring malady, sickness etc. Disease is only mentioned once in the first part of the book, where the program is outlined; here the reference is to "spiritual" disease, and I'm not sure how a physician would be qualified to diagnose that condition.
and others might do in later editions, but that's their personal opinion, not AA "policy". I've read "Mrs Marty Mann: the first lady of Alcoholics Anonymous"; she had own agenda.
Grapevine in conflating disease with illness (malady, ailment etc). They are not the same; I can be ill or sick but not necessarily have a disease. That many AA's lazily use the term disease to describe their (and my!) condition doesn't make it right. Ringwald (op cit) writes: "William Miller and Ernest Kurtz, two respected researchers and observers, compiled various outside conceptions of alcoholism mistakenly attributed to Alcoholics Anonymous.
or only one way to recover; that alcoholics are responsible for their condition;
for every problem drinker; that alcoholics suffer from denial and should be bullied into treatment; or that alcoholism is purely a physical or hereditary disorder. AA's core beliefs do, however, resonate with or resemble those of other fields from which it has often borrowed or which it has influenced." In meeting after meeting I hear AA's making these and other claims; these opinions are also often voiced at public information gatherings by those who simply haven't studied the sources.
Book
From: buckjohnson41686 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 2:28:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Foreward to 4th edition was changed, page xxiv, line 10. First printing has "Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format."
(charlieparker at prodigy.net) What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare and which foreword was changed?? Charlie Parker - - - - Original Message #5668 From: momaria33772 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009
every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5697. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: profits from 24 Hour Book sent to New York AA From: grault . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2009 12:35:00 AM
contributed to the GSO came from an AA member or an AA group, it wouldn't matter how the donor(s) earned the money (i.e., whether through selling books, practicing law, winning the lottery, etc.) --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Andrews > > Since the 24 Hour book (like the Bible!) > is not Conference-approved, how did sending > profits from its sale to GSO (between 1948 > and 1954, when it was being printed under > the sponsorship of the Daytona Beach AA > Group) square with Tradition Seven? > > Laurie A. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5698. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Lynn Sawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 3:04:00 AM
(sawyer7952 at yahoo.com) For our information, 'Bill's Story' refers to Christ on pg. 11: "To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching -- most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded." Lynn S Sacramento, California - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) We quote Bill W to support the religious or so called spiritual aspect of AA, but ignore Bill W's statements, " is not a religious organization. There is no dogma. The one Theological proposition is a power greater than one's self. Even that concept is forced on no one."
and democracy." As far as spirituality is concerned, it is not mine to decide if I am spiritual or not. But I can try not to be unspiritual, and hope I make the right guesses.
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) But A. J. Russell was a leading OG writer and known as such (FOR SINNERS ONLY which is a kind of model for the revelations of GOD CALLING), and GOD CALLING was unquestionably an OG book in Bill's mind (and I think the public mind) -- and the doctrine of private revelation was recognizably an OG doctrine. And of course, tho' God Calling didn't have the four A's and the five C's, Rich Walker's little black book did, so was twice or thrice an OG book. At least that's my interpretation of the reasons behind the turn-down. Not that the little black book was too religious but that it was too Oxford Group "religious" -- I think. - - - - From: Tom Hickcox (cometkazie1 at cox.net) I would like to note that what is not said is often more interesting than what is said, I can imagine the storm that could have erupted had religiosity been given as the reason for turning down the 24 Hour Book. In my opinion they took the easier, softer way and followed that by rejecting the Little Red Book, which to me, at least, has much less religious imagery, for the same reason.
century eyes. The criteria for what may be considered religious today have shifted from what they were fifty-five years ago. I use Emmet Fox's _Around the Year with Emmet Fox_ in my daily meditations. To me it is less religious than _The Upper Room_ was, but more religious than the 24 Hour Book. Post-modernism has changed the ball game.
religious, but applying today's standards it is more so. Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5699. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book (and Harper publishers) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2009 10:11:00 AM
the 12&12 and AA Comes of Age) points to them simply being the channel for releasing books to the public through commercial outlets and not as an additional source of income. In fact the board of trustees declined to accept royalty payments from Harpers (reported to the 1954 Conference).
Conference approved a large list of publishing projects suggested by a committee of board of trustees for future publications and approved six (6) publishing projects proposed by Bill and then added ten (10) publishing projects proposed by the Delegates themselves. These kind of actions do not sustain the notion of any kind of cash crunch for publishing in the 1950s. From what I can glean from final Conference reports, it appears that Harper's & Brothers was brought in primarily to be the channel of distribution of books to non-AAs through commercial channels (the key link to them as a distribution channel was Eugene Exman of pre-publication Big Book fame). The publishing relationship between AA and Harpers lasted well into the 1970s. It's a bit odd that the Conference declined to accept publication rights to "24 Hours a Day" because, approximately two decades later there was actually a case where a book wwas sold through GSO that was not published by AA and whose independent authorship was clearly acknowledged. Harper was involved in this as well. It involved the book "Bill W" by Robert Thompsen. It was sold through GSO from 1971-1976 at which point the Conference stopped it. That book was distributed through Harper (Harper & Row).
report of the 1953 Conference states:"After long and careful consideration, and following a poll of Conference members, the Trustees approved the publishing firm of Harper & Bros. as distributors of Bill's new book to non-A.A. outlets. The Society retains full ownership of the copyright and remains the actual publisher. The new arrangement will benefit the movement by getting increased attention for a basic document on fundamental principles of the Society, and through certain printing and distribution economies. Within ten days after announcement of the new book had been sent to the groups, orders for nearly 6,000 copies had been received at General Service Headquarters.
not to accept, a royalty of $.25 per copy on sales of a book on The Twelve Steps, which had been offered by the publishers." The 1954 PI Conference Committee recommended: "That, in connection with publication of Bill's book "A.A. Comes of Age" we augment Harper's review list, and that no aggressive radio or television publicity efforts for the book be made." Finally, the 1976 Conference recommended: "That G.S.O. discontinue distribution of the "Bill W." book [the biography published by Harper & Row], dispose of the present supply in the most feasible manner, and notify the Fellowship through Box 4-5-9 when the "Bill W." book is no longer available through G.S.O. Sense of the meeting was taken that the deletion of the listing in the catalog should be handled by overprinting or other method as G.S.O. sees fit."
Arthur
++++Message 5700. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book (and comments on Conferences) From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2009 12:23:00 PM
Conferences and advisory actions in Message #5682 from Jim H. (jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com). Comments on this are embedded in the original message:
Hi Charlie,
Conference. Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO Staff.
=================================== [Comments on the above]: There are Trustees Committees and there are Conference Committees. Trustees Committees meet four (4) times a year. Conference Committees meet one time each year at the Conference and consist of Delegates (only) with a member of the GSO staff acting as a non-voting committee Secretary. There is almost (but not quite) a one-for-one correspondence between the Trustees Committees and the Conference Committees each of which is explained in the Service Manual. =================================== When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw
the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference. The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could in the review and approval process. =================================== [Comments on the above]: The bit about copyrights being compromised if the stories got out is bogus. However, it was stated by AAWS/GSO (who also managed to lose the copyrights for the 1st/2nd edition Big Books as well as the Twelve Concepts in 2007). The 1999 Conference approved a Conference Literature Committee recommendation that: "Based on precedent in regard to previous editions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the A.A. history book, and Daily Reflections, any draft copy of the Fourth Edition of Alcoholics Anonymous be considered a work-in-progress, and as such, is confidential; the operating principle being that any story material brought forward to the Conference Literature Committee will be done on a "for-their-eyes-only" basis adhering to the principle of the "right of decision," and not brought forward for any other general distribution until publication." =================================== Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In 2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed. =================================== [Comments on the above]: It went well beyond "some members" objecting and raised
quite a wide-spread negative reaction. The recommendation of the 2002 Conference Literature Committee stated "Although the committee acknowledged the importance of electronic meetings to some A.A. members, the sentence 'Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format' in the last paragraph of the Foreword to the Fourth Edition, be deleted in future printings of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous."
One of the goals for the Fourth Edition was to keep it roughly the same size while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some
existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom From Bondage" to the Third Edition version. ===================================
recommend against restoring the story changes. It "agreed to take no action." In Conference Committee protocol this means that the committee discussed the Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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