Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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> product? He died shortly after its publication. Given his general > decline in health, I doubt that he could promote it very vigorously. > > Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6958. . . . . . . . . . . . I need verification of Ace Full - Seven - Eleven story From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/26/2010 11:44:00 PM
did he
write the story on Thanksgiving day in 1938? Yours in service, Jim M.
FROM GLENN C. THE MODERATOR: See the reproduction (published by Hazelden in 2010) of The Book That Started It All: The Original Working Manuscript of Alcoholics Anonymous, page 172 in the
Hazelden volume = Personal Stories page 62 in the typewritten manuscript: The story "Ace Full -- Seven -- Eleven" is X-ed out, with a handwritten note in pencil saying: Del Tryon's story -- Thought the book was racket and so with drew this. w.a.w
man's name -- Delmar Tyron -- but without giving any source for this claim. I was unable to find any references in the past AAHistoryLovers messages about
the story having been written on Thanksgiving day in 1938. What I did find was a list in Barefootsworld -- is this the Richard K. list? -- can anyone tell us? At any rate, this list gives the following, but with no sources of information of any sort given for these claims: http://www.barefootsworld.net/aapioneers.html Pioneers of Alcoholics Anonymous – 1934 – 1939 All Below Achieved At Least Some Period of Sobriety. Some who failed may have achieved permanent sobriety later. Bolded Names Achieved Permanent Sobriety.
(wrote
story Thanksgiving 1938) HEREWITH FOLLOWS ALL OF THE OTHER RELEVANT MATERIAL I WAS ABLE TO LOCATE IN THE PAST AAHL MESSAGES: - - - - Message #63 Sat Apr 6, 2002 NMOlson@aol.com BB Authors -- Author unknown, Akron, OH. "Ace Full-Seven-Eleven." Buffs, I have been preparing short biographies of authors of the stories in the Big Book, including all three editions, plus one story which appeared only in the Original Manuscript (OM).
Grapevine, plus all the books I could locate written about A.A. or by any of its members. A few I acknowledge at the end of individual stories.
Buffs.
Some of these supplied information about only about one or two of the authors.
In those cases I will acknowledge them when I post the individual biographies on which they helped.
information that I must acknowledge them here: Lee C. in California, who first got me interested in A.A. history; Jim B. in Canada who has sent me large files full of information on A.A.'s history; Barefoot Bill in Pennsylvania, who has sent both information and a video of one of the authors' talks; Ron L. and Ted H. in California who have sent me tapes of some of the authors' talks. (Ron also sent
me information on Jim Burwell which I had not known.) But there is one man who does not want to be acknowledged. "I don't like to take credit for anything I do for A.A.," is I think how he put it. But this man not only proofread and offered editorial suggestions on the nearly 150 pages, but also researched the net to find information for me. So I will risk his friendship by saying THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, to Tony C. of Texas.
benefactors in person. I've done my level best to be sure the stories are accurate. Nonetheless, I am sure there are mistakes. Please send any corrections or additional information to me personally rather than to the whole list, giving me your sources for the information (no guess work please). If it seems appropriate I will then post a corrected biography, giving credit where due for the new information. Here is the first, the only story in the original manuscript which was not included in the first edition. Nancy Ace Full-Seven-Eleven -- Author unknown, Akron, Ohio. (Original Manuscript (OM), p. 62.) There are different theories as to why the story was not included in the first
edition. Some have suggested that the author became suspicious of Bill Wilson and Hank Parkhurst ("The Unbeliever" in the first edition) when Hank set up Works Publishing to raise money to publish the book, with himself as the
self appointed president, and Bill began talking of listing himself as author of the Big Book. Bill would then be entitled to royalties. Others claim that the
author wanted to be paid for his story, or to receive a share of the royalties on the book. None of these theories can be verified.
but before he could take the state board examination he was drafted. In the Army he began gambling, and learning to manipulate the dice and cards to his own
advantage. After the war he became a professional gambler. He spent some time in jail, perhaps for gambling or drinking. One source claims it was for bootlegging. He was hospitalized many times, and eventually his wife had him committed to an insane asylum. He was in and out of the asylum several times. During one of his confinements he met another alcoholic who had lost nearly all. This man had been a hobo, and may have been Charlie Simonson ("Riding the Rods" in the first edition). During his last confinement his friend was not there, but
soon he came to visit and to carry the message of A.A. An agnostic or atheist when he entered, he eventually came to believe in a Divine Father, and that His will was the best bet. No further information is available. - - - - Message #2009 Thu Sep 2, 2004 "Arthur" RE: [AAHistoryLovers] How It Works. Reference Sources: AACOA AA Comes of Age, AAWS AGAA The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Dick B (soft cover) BW-RT Bill W by Robert Thompson (soft cover) BW-FH Bill W by Francis Hartigan (hard cover) DBGO Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers, AAWS GB Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous by Nan Robertson (soft cover) GTBT Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing (soft cover) LOH The Language of the Heart, AA Grapevine Inc LR Lois Remembers, by Lois Wilson NG Not God, by Ernest Kurtz (expanded edition, soft cover) PIO Pass It On, AAWS SM AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service, AAWS SW Silkworth - the Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks, by Dale Mitchell (hard cover) WPR Women Pioneers in 12 Step Recovery, by Charlotte Hunter, Billye Jones and Joan Ziegler (soft cover) www Internet Sources (e.g. Google, Microsoft Encarta, US National Archives & Records Administration NARA)
BW-RT
255) Jan, 400 multilith copies of the book were distributed for evaluation. Each copy
was stamped “Loan Copy” to protect the coming copyright. (AACOA 165, LR 197, NG
74, 319, PIO 200) NY member Jim B (Vicious Cycle) suggested the phrases “God as
we understand Him” and “Power greater than ourselves” be added to the Steps and basic text. Bill W later wrote “Those expressions, as we so well know today,
have proved lifesavers for many an alcoholic.” (LOH 201) Note: Jim B later moved
to Philadelphia, PA in Feb 1940 and started AA there. He also helped start AA in
Baltimore, MD. (AACOA 17, BW-FH 140, GTBT 137, WPR 81) Feb/Mar (?), The distributed multilith copies were returned, but reader’s comments produced few alterations in the final text. A major change did occur at the suggestion of a Montclair, NJ psychiatrist, Dr Howard, who recommended toning down the use of “musts” and changing them to “we ought” or “we should.” Dr Silkworth and Dr Tiebout offered similar advice. (AACOA 167-168 NG 67-77)
was
a friend of Hank P, an editor at Collier’s and a member of the NYU faculty. The manuscript was variously estimated as 600 to 1,200 pages (including personal stories). Uzzell reduced it to approximately 400 pages. Most cuts came from the personal stories, which had also been edited by Jim S (The News Hawk) a journalist from Akron, OH. (AACOA 164, BW-FH 126, PIO 203) Mar, (?), Bill W, Hank P, Ruth Hock and Dorothy S (wife of Cleveland pioneer Clarence S) drove to Cornwall, NY and presented a much altered manuscript to the printing plant of Cornwall Press. When the plant manager saw the condition of the manuscript, he almost sent them back to type a clean copy. Hank P persuaded the manager to accept the manuscript on condition that the group would examine and correct galley proofs as they came off the press. The group checked in to a local hotel and spent the next several days proofreading galleys. (AACOA 170-171, WPR 81-82) Apr, 4,730 copies of the first Ed. of Alcoholics Anonymous were published at a selling price of $3.50 ($46 today) .... The manuscript story of an Akron member, Ace Full - Seven - Eleven, was dropped (reputedly, because he was not too pleased with changes made to the first drafts of the Steps and text). 29 stories
were included (10 from the east coast, 18 from the mid-west and 1 from the west
coast - which was ghost written by Ruth Hock and later removed from the book)
(www) - - - - Message #4377 Tue Jun 12, 2007 "schaberg43" Some Notes on the AA Original Manuscript Up for Auction I went down to Sotheby's today to take a long look at the Original Manuscript copy that they will be auctioning off on Thursday, June 21st. This is the OM copy where Hank, Ruth, Bill, and others recorded ALL of the suggestions that they received for edits before actually printing the first edition of the Big Book ....
dropped story "Ace Full – Seven – Eleven," Bill has written the author's name (something which has not been, to my knowledge, so far discovered) and includes a short comment on why the story has been dropped ....
Tue Jun 26, 2007 "Fiona Dodd" Jim Burwell’s Copy of OM From Old Bill: Given the current excitement surrounding the sale of the "Master Copy" of the Original Manuscript, there was a request here for more information on Jim Burwell’s copy of the Original Manuscript and I will try to supply as much detail about it below as possible. My Lady Sara and I are the current owners of the Burwell copy of the "Original Manuscript" – one of the multilith copies of the proposed text of the Big Book that were circulated in late 1938 and early 1939 for review and comments .... The unique features of this copy include: INSIDE FRONT COVER: Jim’s handwritten name and New Jersey address (crossed out) beneath which is are two of his later San Diego addresses (crossed out) and below this (but covered up with white-out), in another hand, is the name and address of Clarence Snyder in Florida (it seems likely from this and other internal evidence – see below – that at some point the ‘lost’ copy ended up with Clarence before making its way back to Jim) ....
information (written in blue ink by Jim) including: "Those Dry + Active Since AA Book 4/1/39" beneath this header are two columns with subheads: "N.Y. Group" and "Akron" listing the full names of five NY AA’s in the order of their sobriety (with dates) along with six full names and dates from Akron. Death dates are also included for those who died before 1956 in one style of handwriting (indicating that this page might have been written out at that time) along with other death dates added later – including Jim’s.
book. / Some have died, + some have now recovered." Again, this list is broken down into two columns with subheads for "N.Y. Group" and "Akron Group." There are twenty full names listed alphabetically in the N.Y. Group column – with some marked "(D)" for ‘dead’ in both ink and
pencil. The Akron Group column lists seventeen names listed alphabetically – again with "(D)" noted. Below this are four new names, which are not in alphabetic sequence, that have been added in another hand – which I would suspect to be Clarence Snyder’s, since his name appears among these. (NOTE: three of these four additions are for names that already appear in the ‘Sober Akron Six’ column at the top of the page – bringing the real count
for this Akron column up to eighteen.) .... INDEX – (2) PAGE: All of the "Personal Stories" on this page have been identified in Jim’s handwritten notations with the full names of the writers – except for "Ace Full – Seven – Eleven" which is left blank ....
Mon Oct 13, 2008 "bigbookken" Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ? Please see photo from the Original Working Manuscript: http://www.aaholygrail.com/1.html Does anyone know who "Del Tryon" (or "Del Tryor") is and why he thought the publishing of the Big Book was a "racket" and "withdrew" it ?
have a source I can refer to ?
Wed Oct 15, 2008 "Laurence Holbrook" Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ? Message #5275 from Ken R. (bigbookken at yahoo.com) refers us to the working manuscript of the Big Book at: http://www.aaholygrail.com/1.html which gives a photo of "Personal Stories" page 62, the beginning of the story entitled "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN."
and a handwritten note at the top which says: "Del Tryon's story - Thought the book was racket and so with drew this. w.a.w."
http://silkworth.net/dickb/thefirstforty.html Richard K., in an attempt to work out which of the early AA members stayed sober, and which went back to drinking, gives what he believed was the person's full first name and the person's last name (spelled differently from the handwritten note on the early draft of the Big Book), but without giving the source of this informa- tion:
(NO- Success)" - - - - The Orange Papers site has a PDF of a document signed by Dr. Bob's daughter, Sue Smith Windows (February 15, 1918 - February 9, 2002), on January 7, 1999 (when she was eighty years old) that gives one version of why his story wasn't included: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Sue_Smith.pdf "One of the authors of a personal story that appeared in the original manuscript (ACE FULL... SEVEN ELEVEN) from Akron asked that his story be removed from the book prior to publication after finding out about Bill's personal financial aspirations from the sale of the book. It was revealed that Bill and Ruth Hock already publicly distributed the multilith manuscript and sold it for $3.50."
Sat Oct 18, 2008 Tom Hickcox Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ? The $3.50 for the manuscript included the promise of a copy of the Big Book when it was published, I believe.
Mon Oct 20, 2008 "Arthur S" Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN" story omitted? The Orange Papers is not quite the most objective and impartial source for AA information. Neither was Dr Bob's daughter Sue.
and things don't get on there unless they fit the agenda. Also, Sue W made no secret of her contempt for Bill W. It was probably rather galling to her that Bill's and Lois' heirs were receiving royalties from the books Bill Wrote and she wasn't. If you read her comments in "Children of the Healer" about her daughter's suicide, after murdering her granddaughter, they are rather chilling, calculated and surreal. The comment on the Big Book manuscript page by Bill W, regarding Del T and his story, says "Thought the book was a racket so withdrew this." By the way, Bill W assigned all author's royalties from the Big Book to the Alcoholic Foundation around September 1938. On April 22, 1940, Bill W and Hank P gave up their stock in Works Publishing Co with a written stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne would receive 10% royalties on the Big Book for life. Bill did not start receiving royalties from Big Book sales until after the US entered World War II in December 1941. Cheers Arthur
++++Message 6959. . . . . . . . . . . . Why are the Concepts not mentioned in the Forewords? From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/26/2010 3:22:00 PM
the
Concepts isn't mentioned in the foreword for the 3rd edition like the Traditions are in the foreword to the 2nd edition.
about this before, but I must say I think it is a very good question. Does anyone have an idea why? Best Bent Christensen Valmuevej 17 6000 Kolding Tlf. +45 50 12 17 43 www.vica.as IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6960. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith magazine
From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/24/2010 8:11:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Jim M. and gadgetsdad - - - - From: Jim M (silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com) I am happy to announce that a written text and a scanned copy of the original
"Your Faith" magazine article containing an interview with Dr. Bob is now available from silkworth.net -Interview by D.J. Defoe The title of the article is, "I Saw Religion Remake A Drunkard" "Through Liquor, this physician had lost his practice, his reputation and his
self-respect. Then one night in a gathering in a private home, he found the way
of escape." -The Doctor Bob interview by D.J. Defoe which appeared in the September 1939 issue of "Your Faith" magazine, pages 84 to 88. Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. did not have a copy of this article or magazine. Brad I. donated the original copy he had to AAWS, Inc. Brad I., the AA
Archivist in Area 35, sent the scanned copy and written text to me to add to the
AA history on silkworth.net and gave permission to add it. You can access this rare article and large scanned images of the relevant pages
of the magazine on silkworth.net: http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/drbob/drbob_interview_fm_0939.html (Indexed on http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/drbob.html and http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/research.html ) Yours in service, Jim M.
From: "gadgetsdad" (gadgetsdad at yahoo.com) The following is the text of the article I typed up. I have scans of the original
document to email. The original magazine has been contributed to the GSO archives. I Saw Religion Remake A Drunkard By D.J. Defoe September 1939 "Your Faith" Magazine
self respect. Then one night in a gathering in a private home, he found the way of escape. When a doctor starts drinking, he's usually on the skids for keeps. His profession gives him so much privacy, so great exposure to temptation both from liquor and from drugs, and his need of a stimulant to lift him from depression becomes so extreme, that many a good doctor has dropped into oblivion for no cause other than his own thirst for drink.
liquor. Their stories are alike in their early furtiveness, then a brazen attitude of liquor-might-do-things-to some- men- but- I'm-different, then a broken desperation to try to keep up appearances and pretend nothing has happened, and finally exposure and failure-and disgrace. One brilliant ex-surgeon a suicide; another exile from home; two others forgotten by their friends; so runs the history.
degradation to see how the jaws of hell reaching out for him. But then something interfered and saved him. Today Dr. X -- and I dare not give his name, or even the name of the city, for
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