heated discussions took place. One long-term member from Ohio who was there,
contingent did the same, attempting to tone down the spiritual aspects.
Who Wrote "To Wives?"
Bill asked Hank P. to write what was to become Chapter 10, To Employers.
receiving no credit. Bill also asked Anne Smith, Dr. Bob's wife to write the
chapter To Wives, but she gently declined. She reportedly told Bill that he
should have asked his wife Lois instead. Lois was not asked and Bill wrote
it.
To say the least, Lois held a resentment about that for many years.
printed. These went out to friends of the fledgling movement as well as to
members for further review. Offers were made to send the printed book as
going to ask for it. The asked that the thickest paper be used as well as
widest possible margins. The owners of the Cornwall Press had some left over
fists clenched and a determined look on his face. In the background was a
bottle with another man trapped inside. The name, Alcoholics Anonymous was
jacket, the one that was eventually used. This cover was red, yellow, black
white with just the name "Alcoholics Anonymous" on top.
galleys. It is not known where, or for how long they stayed in this Orange
more. When the books were ready, the Cornwall Press refused to release any
them until they were paid. Despite Bill's pleadings and promises of a quick
February 1940 that there was any real movement of these books.
(the_archivist at excite.com)
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++++Message 6895. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early meeting formats, or
procedures
From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/22/2010 11:14:00 PM
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John,
Thanks a million for this important information! I find it amazing how in
simple and uncomplicated manner they carried the program particulars in
those early days of AA.
I have already sent this out to other history buffs, and will continue to do
so.
Bob
Bob Stonebraker
212 SW 18th Street
Richmond, IN 47374
(765) 935-0130
4D website: www.4dgroups.org
Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com
===============================
-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Moore
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 4:22 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Early meeting formats, or procedures
Gene E. A.A. # 28 "The Booze Fighter"
Hi Bob,
My old friend Gene Edmiston who got sober July 4th weekend 1939, attended
New York City meetings at Oxford Groups and at Bill and Lois' home. Below
is part of his talk, where he describes an OG meeting. Gene also described
meeting with other AAs including his sponsor Paul Kellogg, in a public park,
sitting on benches or picnic tables, and talking about sobriety.
John
- - - -
"When I reached AA, there were only 3 people in New York including Bill
Wilson, that had better than two years' sobriety. Bill had four, Parkhurst
had three, and Fitzie Mayo had two. There were less than ten of us around
New York. So our meetings for nearly a year, weren't meetings. It was just
gatherings, we'd get together, Bill would lead, and we'd talk back and forth
to Bill.
I'll tell you how they got away from the Oxford Group, if you don't mind.
See, for the first four years, it was religion, strictly. These boys took
me in, and they talked about (an occasion) when they had made a call on a
certain fellow, and then one of them had to leave. The other one asked,
"Would you *pray* for this Brother?", just like Methodists, Baptists, or
anyone else steeped in religion (might say).
Well, it happened a few of them were attending the Oxford Group in New York,
including Bill, because they weren't affiliated with a church. But some of
the other boys were going to Protestant Churches, the Catholic Church, and
others, two or three of them.
I went to the Oxford Group with those boys; wouldn't be over two or three of
us at a time. The ladies, wives, would go in and sit down; out the men
would come, smoke cigarettes, talk about baseball, everything. But they
weren't stressing their experience of drinking.
They weren't getting religion there, it was spiritual. They were studying
the Lord's Prayer, and "Sermon on the Mount" by Emmett Fox. We used "Sermon
on the Mount" for a couple of years after we got our Big Book. That's where
they got the idea for the formation of our Program.
And the reason they didn't bring Jesus Christ into the Program is, they
wanted it to be spiritual. Practically all religions practice the
principles that we are practicing in AA. But we don't say "Christ" in it.
They wanted everyone who came in here, not be offended from a religious
standpoint. Now if a person of the Jewish faith would come in, and hear
Jesus Christ discussed, he wouldn't feel comfortable, don't you see? And
they got that idea out of "Sermon on the Mount"."
- - - -
This transcription of Gene's talk is online at
http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/genee_aa38.html
Gene E. A.A. # 28 "The Booze Fighter"
Transcribed from the Anniversary 'Old-Timers' Meeting South Bay Survivors
Group, Redondo Beach, Calif. Approx. 1977
See also http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6446
Bill W promised Gene that when the BB was reprinted, Gene's story "The Booze
Fighter" would be included. But after a year, Gene got drunk and by the time
he got back in the early 1940's his chance to get into the BB was lost. Gene
was a wonderful, gentle giant of a man, an elder statesman in the finest
sense. I knew him for about 8 years in my home group until I moved away in
1979, and Gene passed away a few years after that, he died sober and
surrounded by AA friends.
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++++Message 6896. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Carl Jung: many roads to
recovery
From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2010 10:50:00 AM
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I would suspect Jung was a supporter of the Oxford Groups methods and
achievements. The statement "his attitude toward the Oxford Group also
became
more negative" seems to miss the mark.
The following is from page 23 of Jung's 1938 Title: Psychology & Religion
"It is also a fact that under the influence of a so-called scientific
enlightenment great masses of educated people have either left the church or
have become profoundly indifferent to it. If they were all dull rationalists
or
neurotic intellectuals the loss would not be regrettable. But many of them
are
religious people, only incapable of agreeing with the actually existing
forms of
creed. If this were not so, one could hardly explain the remarkable effect
of
the Buchman movement on the more or less educated Protestant classes."
The "ambivalence" expressed by Jung in relating the story listed below (The
Symbolic Life p.272)would seem more aimed at the lack of faith the group
members
have in their own methods and procedures rather than attitude on his part
that
religion couldn't do the job. On the contrary, Jung stated in Modern Man in
Search of a Soul, p. 229)
"Among all my patients in the second half of life–that is to say, over
thirty
five– there has not been a single one whose problem in the last resort was
not
that of finding a religious outlook on life. It is safe to say that every
one of
them fell ill because he had lost that which the living religions of every
age
have given their followers, and none of them has been really healed who did
not
regain his religious outlook. This of course has nothing to do with a
particular
creed or membership of a church."73 (Moderm Man in Search of a Soul, p. 229)
I have often pondered the story of the hysterical alcoholic related by Jung
and
that of Rowland Hazard, his treatement by Jung, Courtenay Baylor, and his
apparent relapses after his initial treatment in 1926, again in 1932 &
lastly
1936/37. I'd sure like to see the pieces of that puzzle put together beyond
the
fine work I have already seen.
God Bless
John B
--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Baileygc23@... wrote:
>
> Carl Jung on the Oxford Group:
>
> Carl Jung became aware of the Oxford Group in the 1920s when Alphonse
> Maeder, his colleague and former assistant, became involved with the
movement.
Although Jung recognized that troubled patients sometimes gained a sense of
security, purpose and belonging from Group involvement, in his view there
was a
sacrifice in personal individuation. He therefore did not understand what
attraction the group could have for someone with the psychoanalytic
sophistication of Maeder. For a time Jung was respectful of Maeder's
convictions, but when his relationship with Maeder deteriorated in the 1930s
his
attitude toward the Oxford Group also became more negative.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Group#cite_note-Adler-70
>
> - - - -
>
> Jung expressed this ambivalence toward the Group in a talk about the
> relationship of religion to mental health around 1941. "A hysterical
alcoholic
was cured by this Group movement, and they used him as a sort of model and
sent
him all round Europe, where he confessed so nicely and said that he had done
wrong and how he had got cured through the Group movement. And when he had
repeated his story twenty, or it may have been fifty, times, he got sick of
it
and took to drink again. The spiritual sensation had simply faded away. Now
what
are they going to do with him? They say, now he is pathological, he must go
to a
doctor. See, in the first stage he has been cured by Jesus, in the second by
a
doctor! I should and did refuse such a case. I sent the man back to these
people
and said, 'If you believe that Jesus has cured this man, he will do it a
second
time. And if he can't do it, you don't suppose that I can do it better than
Jesus?' But that is just exactly what they do expect; when a man is
pathological, Jesus won't help him but the doctor will."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Group#cite_note-Carl_Jung_p._272-71
>
> _________________________________________
>
> In a message dated 9/21/2010
> johnlawlee@... writes:
>
> I don't believe Jung's "second way" was just fellowship. Jung was writing
about a group of seekers trying to establish a personal relationship with
God.
That's supposedly what Jung told Rowland -- when Rowland returned to the
United
States, Jung thought he should look for a group of seekers, which is what
Rowland did when he joined the Oxford Group. Jung, more than any man of
science,
emphasized the need for God and Divine Power. He wouldn't have recommended
that
Rowland rely on human power.
>
> John Lee
> Pittsburgh
>
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++++Message 6897. . . . . . . . . . . . Bamford and Seiberling grave sites
From: ron.fulkerson . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/22/2010 9:40:00 PM
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Bertha Dorthea Bamford is buried at the Walnut Ridge Cemetery in
Jeffersonville,
IN (812) 283-3707 Section I lot #30
Henrietta Buckler Seiberling is buried at the Lawrenceburg Cemetery in
Lawrenceburg, KY (502) 839-9966 Section 2 of the old cemetery.
I specific directions which I could post if anyone wishes.
(I also have recent pictures.)
.... ronf
e-mail (ron.fulkerson at yahoo.com)
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++++Message 6898. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W. - 1944 - many roads to
recovery
From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/23/2010 6:10:00 AM
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Several people were sober prior to AA in Philadelphia. February 29th,1940
brought AA to the city of brotherly love. At Dr Saul's office, meetings were
held in his waiting room by recovering alcoholics. Several members of the
original Philadelphia" Mother Group" were waiting for something like what
Jimmy
Burwell brought with him. They had Oxford Group connections and were staying
sober before AA's 12 steps. I think that what happened here was common in
early
AA. People came to AA already sober by other methods.
If you look at my posting on AA in India (AAHL posting 6561), you will see
Francis C, formerly the lay therapist with Peabody, working for Dr Strecker
had
success getting alcoholics sober.
(See "Alcohol: One Man's Meat" by Strecker and Chambers -- this letter I
will be
shortly posting on http://www.Silkworth.net in its entirety.)
Medical Doctors were close to getting a highly successful program for our
disease. One Alcoholic working with another was in practice in Dr. Saul's
waiting room. The tenets of the O.G. and one alcoholic working with another
took it over the top. Hats off to Mr Wilson and his wet, foggy, ambitious
alcoholic brain. Thank God for AA.
YIS, In GA NAW
Shakey Mike Gwirtz
hope to see you all here
- - - -
From: "tomper87" and "Dov"
Laurie Andrews asked "when and where did Bill Wilson say/write in 1944
'there
are many roads to recovery'?"
White was quoting Bill W from comments in the Sept 1944 Grapevine to a
Grapevine
article by Philip Wylie. Wylie (who was not a member of A.A.) had written
about
his own recovery and part of Bill's response was .... "the roads to recovery
are many ... any story or theory
of recovery from one who has trod the highway is bound to contain much
truth."
For the full text of Bill W's comments see the text in silkworth.net:
http://silkworth.net/grapevine/bwresponsetopw.html
For Philip Wylie's original article (which Bill W. was commenting on) see
AAHistoryLovers Message 354 (and also 374 which seems to be a duplicate).
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++++Message 6899. . . . . . . . . . . . Dr. Bob''s house
From: Anders Bystr�m . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2010 3:48:00 PM
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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1113467&l=699b081745&id=618575813
Loving greets from Sweden
Anders
Anders Bystr�m
OBS NYTT TELEFONNUMMER - NEW PHONE NUMBER!!
+46(0)765 - 773 562
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++++Message 6900. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Bamford and Seiberling grave
sites
From: looking@pigsfly.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2010 7:55:00 PM
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These pictures would be wonderful at findagrave.com. I would assume they
could
be placed in the famous graves section.
http://www.findagrave.com/
http://www.findagrave.com/php/famous.php
- - - -
From: ron.fulkerson
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010
Subject: Bamford and Seiberling grave sites
Bertha Dorthea Bamford is buried at the Walnut Ridge Cemetery in
Jeffersonville, IN (812) 283-3707 Section I lot #30
Henrietta Buckler Seiberling is buried at the Lawrenceburg Cemetery in
Lawrenceburg, KY (502) 839-9966 Section 2 of the old cemetery.
I specific directions which I could post if anyone wishes.
(I also have recent pictures.)
.... ronf
e-mail (ron.fulkerson at yahoo.com)
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++++Message 6901. . . . . . . . . . . . Looking for Bill W''s will,
royalties agreement, and AMA banner
From: Serenerider . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/24/2010 11:48:00 PM
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I'm looking for the last will and testament from Bill W. A copy of his
royalties
agreement and the banner for the AMA from 1935 please.
My e-mail address is:
(learning3legacies at suddenlink.net)
Thanks
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++++Message 6902. . . . . . . . . . . . Hallmark movie: ''When Love Is Not
Enough''
From: Lynn Sawyer . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2010 1:52:00 AM
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Dear AAHL's,
Had the wonderful opportunity to view this Hallmark Presentation on DVD w/a
friend tonight. I thought this was a very accurate and poignant portrayal of
the Bill and Lois story/life. Hallmark card stores have it for sale; you
perhaps can order it from Amazon.com, as well. I highly recommend it; it's a
great film.
Lynn S.
grateful alkie
Sacramento, California
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++++Message 6903. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bamford and Seiberling grave
sites
From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2010 11:07:00 PM
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Hello Group
I have added photos of Henrietta Seiberling and her parent's graves to The
Find
A Grave website.
Here is a link:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=59252532
Hope you enjoy
Charles from Wisconsin
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++++Message 6904. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bamford and Seiberling grave
sites
From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2010 11:31:00 PM
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Hello Group
Have added a photo of Bertha Bamford's grave in Find A Grave. Here is a
link:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=59266240
Hope you enjoy
Charles
From Wisconsin
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++++Message 6905. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Looking for Bill W''s will,
royalties agreement, and AMA...
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/26/2010 11:59:00 AM
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Bill Wilson's Royalty Agreement with AAWS, Inc.
____________________________________
AGREEMENT made this 29th day of April, 1963, by and between WILLIAM G.
WILSON, residing at Steppingstones, Bedford Hills, New York (herein called
"WILSON") and ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS WORLD SERVICES, INC., a membership
corporation organized and existing under and by virtue of the laws of the
State
of
New York and having its principal place of business at 305 East 45th St.,
New York, N.Y. (herein called "A.A.");
W I T N E S S E T H :
WHEREAS, A.A. is the successor in interest to Alcoholics Anonymous World
Services, Inc., a stock corporation (presently inactive) organized under the
laws of the State of New York (herein referred to as "A.A.'s
predecessor"); and
WHEREAS, A.A.'s predecessor has heretofore assigned to A.A. all of its
assets and properties subject to its liabilities; and
Dostları ilə paylaş: