> product? He died shortly after its publication. Given his general
> decline in health, I doubt that he could promote it very vigorously.
>
> Tommy H in Baton Rouge
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
++++Message 6958. . . . . . . . . . . . I need verification of Ace Full -
Seven - Eleven story
From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/26/2010 11:44:00 PM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Can anyone verify this information as being correct?
Was it Delmar Tyron who wrote the story, "Ace Full - Seven - Eleven"? And
did he
write the story on Thanksgiving day in 1938?
Yours in service,
Jim M.
- - - -
FROM GLENN C. THE MODERATOR:
See the reproduction (published by Hazelden in 2010) of The Book That
Started It
All: The Original Working Manuscript of Alcoholics Anonymous, page 172 in
the
Hazelden volume = Personal Stories page 62 in the typewritten manuscript:
The story "Ace Full -- Seven -- Eleven" is X-ed out, with a handwritten note
in
pencil saying:
Del Tryon's story --
Thought the book was racket
and so with drew this.
w.a.w
It was Richard K. (see Message #5283) who gave a different version of the
man's
name -- Delmar Tyron -- but without giving any source for this claim.
I was unable to find any references in the past AAHistoryLovers messages
about
the story having been written on Thanksgiving day in 1938.
What I did find was a list in Barefootsworld -- is this the Richard K. list?
--
can anyone tell us? At any rate, this list gives the following, but with no
sources of information of any sort given for these claims:
http://www.barefootsworld.net/aapioneers.html
Pioneers of Alcoholics Anonymous – 1934 – 1939
All Below Achieved At Least Some Period of Sobriety.
Some who failed may have achieved permanent sobriety later.
Bolded Names Achieved Permanent Sobriety.
Sobriety date: 1938 -- Delmar Tyron -- Akron -- Ace Full, Seven-Eleven
(wrote
story Thanksgiving 1938)
HEREWITH FOLLOWS ALL OF THE OTHER RELEVANT MATERIAL
I WAS ABLE TO LOCATE IN THE PAST AAHL MESSAGES:
- - - -
Message #63
Sat Apr 6, 2002
NMOlson@aol.com
BB Authors -- Author unknown, Akron, OH. "Ace Full-Seven-Eleven."
Buffs, I have been preparing short biographies of authors of the stories in
the Big Book, including all three editions, plus one story which appeared
only in the Original Manuscript (OM).
I have reviewed all the books published by A.A. World Services and the A.A.
Grapevine, plus all the books I could locate written about A.A. or by any of
its members. A few I acknowledge at the end of individual stories.
In this endeavor I have been helped enormously by other members of the
Buffs.
Some of these supplied information about only about one or two of the
authors.
In those cases I will acknowledge them when I post the individual
biographies on
which they helped.
But there are a few people who have been of such help in providing
information
that I must acknowledge them here: Lee C. in California, who first got me
interested in A.A. history; Jim B. in Canada who has sent me large files
full of
information on A.A.'s history; Barefoot Bill in Pennsylvania, who has sent
both
information and a video of one of the authors' talks; Ron L. and Ted H. in
California who have sent me tapes of some of the authors' talks. (Ron also
sent
me information on Jim Burwell which I had not known.)
But there is one man who does not want to be acknowledged. "I don't like to
take credit for anything I do for A.A.," is I think how he put it. But this
man
not only proofread and offered editorial suggestions on the nearly 150
pages,
but also researched the net to find information for me. So I will risk his
friendship by saying THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, to Tony C. of Texas.
To me the amazing thing about all this is that I have never met any of these
benefactors in person.
I've done my level best to be sure the stories are accurate. Nonetheless, I
am
sure there are mistakes. Please send any corrections or additional
information
to me personally rather than to the whole list, giving me your sources for
the
information (no guess work please). If it seems appropriate I will then post
a
corrected biography, giving credit where due for the new information.
Here is the first, the only story in the original manuscript which was not
included in the first edition.
Nancy
Ace Full-Seven-Eleven -- Author unknown, Akron, Ohio.
(Original Manuscript (OM), p. 62.)
There are different theories as to why the story was not included in the
first
edition. Some have suggested that the author became suspicious of Bill
Wilson and Hank Parkhurst ("The Unbeliever" in the first edition) when Hank
set up Works Publishing to raise money to publish the book, with himself as
the
self appointed president, and Bill began talking of listing himself as
author of
the Big Book. Bill would then be entitled to royalties. Others claim that
the
author wanted to be paid for his story, or to receive a share of the
royalties
on the book. None of these theories can be verified.
According to his story, he was the son of a pharmacist and studied pharmacy,
but before he could take the state board examination he was drafted. In the
Army he began gambling, and learning to manipulate the dice and cards to his
own
advantage.
After the war he became a professional gambler. He spent some time in jail,
perhaps for gambling or drinking. One source claims it was for bootlegging.
He was hospitalized many times, and eventually his wife had him committed to
an insane asylum. He was in and out of the asylum several times. During one
of
his confinements he met another alcoholic who had lost nearly all. This man
had
been a hobo, and may have been Charlie Simonson ("Riding the Rods" in
the first edition). During his last confinement his friend was not there,
but
soon he came to visit and to carry the message of A.A.
An agnostic or atheist when he entered, he eventually came to believe in a
Divine Father, and that His will was the best bet.
No further information is available.
- - - -
Message #2009
Thu Sep 2, 2004
"Arthur"
RE: [AAHistoryLovers] How It Works.
Reference Sources:
AACOA AA Comes of Age, AAWS
AGAA The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous, by Dick B (soft cover)
BW-RT Bill W by Robert Thompson (soft cover)
BW-FH Bill W by Francis Hartigan (hard cover)
DBGO Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers, AAWS
GB Getting Better Inside Alcoholics Anonymous by Nan Robertson (soft
cover)
GTBT Grateful to Have Been There by Nell Wing (soft cover)
LOH The Language of the Heart, AA Grapevine Inc
LR Lois Remembers, by Lois Wilson
NG Not God, by Ernest Kurtz (expanded edition, soft cover)
PIO Pass It On, AAWS
SM AA Service Manual and Twelve Concepts for World Service, AAWS
SW Silkworth - the Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks, by Dale Mitchell
(hard cover)
WPR Women Pioneers in 12 Step Recovery, by Charlotte Hunter, Billye Jones
and Joan Ziegler (soft cover)
www Internet Sources (e.g. Google, Microsoft Encarta, US National
Archives & Records Administration NARA)
1939
Jan, The draft book text and personal stories were completed. (AACOA 164,
BW-RT
255)
Jan, 400 multilith copies of the book were distributed for evaluation. Each
copy
was stamped “Loan Copy” to protect the coming copyright. (AACOA 165, LR
197, NG
74, 319, PIO 200) NY member Jim B (Vicious Cycle) suggested the phrases
“God as
we understand Him” and “Power greater than ourselves” be added to the
Steps and
basic text. Bill W later wrote “Those expressions, as we so well know
today,
have proved lifesavers for many an alcoholic.” (LOH 201) Note: Jim B later
moved
to Philadelphia, PA in Feb 1940 and started AA there. He also helped start
AA in
Baltimore, MD. (AACOA 17, BW-FH 140, GTBT 137, WPR 81)
Feb/Mar (?), The distributed multilith copies were returned, but reader’s
comments produced few alterations in the final text. A major change did
occur at
the suggestion of a Montclair, NJ psychiatrist, Dr Howard, who recommended
toning down the use of “musts” and changing them to “we ought” or
“we should.”
Dr Silkworth and Dr Tiebout offered similar advice. (AACOA 167-168 NG 67-77)
Mar (?), The much changed book manuscript was turned over to Tom Uzzell. He
was
a friend of Hank P, an editor at Collier’s and a member of the NYU
faculty. The
manuscript was variously estimated as 600 to 1,200 pages (including personal
stories). Uzzell reduced it to approximately 400 pages. Most cuts came from
the
personal stories, which had also been edited by Jim S (The News Hawk) a
journalist from Akron, OH. (AACOA 164, BW-FH 126, PIO 203)
Mar, (?), Bill W, Hank P, Ruth Hock and Dorothy S (wife of Cleveland pioneer
Clarence S) drove to Cornwall, NY and presented a much altered manuscript to
the printing plant of Cornwall Press. When the plant manager saw the
condition
of the manuscript, he almost sent them back to type a clean copy. Hank P
persuaded the manager to accept the manuscript on condition that the group
would
examine and correct galley proofs as they came off the press. The group
checked
in to a local hotel and spent the next several days proofreading galleys.
(AACOA
170-171, WPR 81-82)
Apr, 4,730 copies of the first Ed. of Alcoholics Anonymous were published at
a
selling price of $3.50 ($46 today) .... The manuscript story of an Akron
member,
Ace Full - Seven - Eleven, was dropped (reputedly, because he was not too
pleased with changes made to the first drafts of the Steps and text). 29
stories
were included (10 from the east coast, 18 from the mid-west and 1 from the
west
coast - which was ghost written by Ruth Hock and later removed from the
book)
(www)
- - - -
Message #4377
Tue Jun 12, 2007
"schaberg43"
Some Notes on the AA Original Manuscript Up for Auction
I went down to Sotheby's today to take a long look at the Original
Manuscript copy that they will be auctioning off on Thursday, June
21st. This is the OM copy where Hank, Ruth, Bill, and others
recorded ALL of the suggestions that they received for edits before
actually printing the first edition of the Big Book ....
On the pages containing the
dropped story "Ace Full – Seven – Eleven," Bill has written the
author's name (something which has not been, to my knowledge, so far
discovered) and includes a short comment on why the story has been
dropped ....
Old Bill
- - - -
Message #4409
Tue Jun 26, 2007
"Fiona Dodd"
Jim Burwell’s Copy of OM
From Old Bill:
Given the current excitement surrounding the sale of the "Master Copy" of
the Original Manuscript, there was a request here for more information on
Jim Burwell’s copy of the Original Manuscript and I will try to supply as
much detail about it below as possible.
My Lady Sara and I are the current owners of the Burwell copy of the
"Original Manuscript" – one of the multilith copies of the proposed text
of
the Big Book that were circulated in late 1938 and early 1939 for review and
comments ....
The unique features of this copy include:
INSIDE FRONT COVER:
Jim’s handwritten name and New Jersey address (crossed out)
beneath which is are two of his later San Diego addresses (crossed out)
and below this (but covered up with white-out), in another hand, is the name
and address of Clarence Snyder in Florida (it seems likely from this and
other internal evidence – see below – that at some point the
‘lost’ copy
ended up with Clarence before making its way back to Jim) ....
VERSO OF INDEX PAGE:
This originally blank page is filled with a wealth of historically important
information (written in blue ink by Jim) including:
"Those Dry + Active Since AA Book 4/1/39"
beneath this header are two columns with subheads: "N.Y. Group" and "Akron"
listing the full names of five NY AA’s in the order of their sobriety
(with
dates) along with six full names and dates from Akron. Death dates are also
included for those who died before 1956 in one style of handwriting
(indicating that this page might have been written out at that time) along
with other death dates added later – including Jim’s.
Below this is another major header: "Others who contributed to writing the
book. / Some have died, + some have now recovered."
Again, this list is broken down into two columns with subheads for "N.Y.
Group" and "Akron Group." There are twenty full names listed alphabetically
in the N.Y. Group column – with some marked "(D)" for ‘dead’ in both
ink and
pencil. The Akron Group column lists seventeen names listed alphabetically
–
again with "(D)" noted. Below this are four new names, which are not in
alphabetic sequence, that have been added in another hand – which I would
suspect to be Clarence Snyder’s, since his name appears among these.
(NOTE:
three of these four additions are for names that already appear in the
‘Sober Akron Six’ column at the top of the page – bringing the real
count
for this Akron column up to eighteen.) ....
INDEX – (2) PAGE:
All of the "Personal Stories" on this page have been identified in Jim’s
handwritten notations with the full names of the writers – except for "Ace
Full – Seven – Eleven" which is left blank ....
- - - -
Message #5275
Mon Oct 13, 2008
"bigbookken"
Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ?
Please see photo from the Original Working
Manuscript:
http://www.aaholygrail.com/1.html
Does anyone know who "Del Tryon" (or "Del
Tryor") is and why he thought the publishing
of the Big Book was a "racket" and "withdrew"
it ?
If you have any information, do you also
have a source I can refer to ?
Many thanks,
Ken R.
- - - -
Message #5283
Wed Oct 15, 2008
"Laurence Holbrook"
Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ?
Message #5275 from Ken R.
(bigbookken at yahoo.com)
refers us to the working manuscript of
the Big Book at:
http://www.aaholygrail.com/1.html
which gives a photo of "Personal Stories"
page 62, the beginning of the story entitled
"ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN."
This sheet of paper has an X across the page,
and a handwritten note at the top which says:
"Del Tryon's story -
Thought the book was racket
and so with drew this.
w.a.w."
- - - -
http://silkworth.net/dickb/thefirstforty.html
Richard K., in an attempt to work out which
of the early AA members stayed sober, and
which went back to drinking, gives what he
believed was the person's full first name
and the person's last name (spelled
differently from the handwritten note on
the early draft of the Big Book), but
without giving the source of this informa-
tion:
"N/A Delmar Tyron Akron Success Ace-Full Seven Eleven
(NO- Success)"
- - - -
The Orange Papers site has a PDF of a document
signed by Dr. Bob's daughter, Sue Smith Windows
(February 15, 1918 - February 9, 2002), on
January 7, 1999 (when she was eighty years old)
that gives one version of why his story wasn't
included:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Sue_Smith.pdf
"One of the authors of a personal story that
appeared in the original manuscript (ACE FULL...
SEVEN ELEVEN) from Akron asked that his story
be removed from the book prior to publication
after finding out about Bill's personal
financial aspirations from the sale of the
book. It was revealed that Bill and Ruth Hock
already publicly distributed the multilith
manuscript and sold it for $3.50."
- - - -
Message #5291
Sat Oct 18, 2008
Tom Hickcox
Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN." story omitted ?
The $3.50 for the manuscript included the
promise of a copy of the Big Book when it
was published, I believe.
Tommy H in Baton Rouge
- - - -
Message #5308
Mon Oct 20, 2008
"Arthur S"
Re: Why was "ACE FULL -- SEVEN -- ELEVEN" story omitted?
The Orange Papers is not quite the most
objective and impartial source for AA
information. Neither was Dr Bob's daughter
Sue.
The Orange Papers is an agenda-driven site
and things don't get on there unless they fit
the agenda.
Also, Sue W made no secret of her contempt
for Bill W. It was probably rather galling to
her that Bill's and Lois' heirs were receiving
royalties from the books Bill Wrote and she
wasn't. If you read her comments in "Children
of the Healer" about her daughter's suicide,
after murdering her granddaughter, they are
rather chilling, calculated and surreal.
The comment on the Big Book manuscript page
by Bill W, regarding Del T and his story,
says "Thought the book was a racket so
withdrew this."
By the way, Bill W assigned all author's
royalties from the Big Book to the Alcoholic
Foundation around September 1938. On April 22,
1940, Bill W and Hank P gave up their stock
in Works Publishing Co with a written
stipulation that Dr Bob and Anne would receive
10% royalties on the Big Book for life. Bill
did not start receiving royalties from Big
Book sales until after the US entered World
War II in December 1941.
Cheers
Arthur
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
++++Message 6959. . . . . . . . . . . . Why are the Concepts not mentioned
in the Forewords?
From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/26/2010 3:22:00 PM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Dear Group
We have Danish group where we discuss The 36 of AA. Now someone asked why
the
Concepts isn't mentioned in the foreword for the 3rd edition like the
Traditions
are in the foreword to the 2nd edition.
Although the Concepts seem to be is a vital part of AA, I have never thought
about this before, but I must say I think it is a very good question.
Does anyone have an idea why?
Best
Bent Christensen
Valmuevej 17
6000 Kolding
Tlf. +45 50 12 17 43
www.vica.as
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
++++Message 6960. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith
magazine
From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/24/2010 8:11:00 PM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
From Jim M. and gadgetsdad
- - - -
From: Jim M
(silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com)
I am happy to announce that a written text and a scanned copy of the
original
"Your Faith" magazine article containing an interview with Dr. Bob is now
available from silkworth.net -Interview by D.J. Defoe
The title of the article is, "I Saw Religion Remake A Drunkard"
"Through Liquor, this physician had lost his practice, his reputation and
his
self-respect. Then one night in a gathering in a private home, he found the
way
of escape." -The Doctor Bob interview by D.J. Defoe which appeared in the
September 1939 issue of "Your Faith" magazine, pages 84 to 88.
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. did not have a copy of this
article or
magazine. Brad I. donated the original copy he had to AAWS, Inc. Brad I.,
the AA
Archivist in Area 35, sent the scanned copy and written text to me to add to
the
AA history on silkworth.net and gave permission to add it.
You can access this rare article and large scanned images of the relevant
pages
of the magazine on silkworth.net:
http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/drbob/drbob_interview_fm_0939.html
(Indexed on http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/drbob.html
and http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory/research.html )
Yours in service,
Jim M.
- - - -
From: "gadgetsdad"
(gadgetsdad at yahoo.com)
The following is the text of the article I typed up. I have scans of the
original
document to email. The original magazine has been contributed to the
GSO archives.
I Saw Religion Remake A Drunkard
By D.J. Defoe
September 1939 "Your Faith" Magazine
Through Liquor, this physician had lost his practice, his reputation and his
self respect. Then one night in a gathering in a private home, he found the
way
of escape.
When a doctor starts drinking, he's usually on the skids for keeps. His
profession gives him so much privacy, so great exposure to temptation both
from
liquor and from drugs, and his need of a stimulant to lift him from
depression
becomes so extreme, that many a good doctor has dropped into oblivion for no
cause other than his own thirst for drink.
I could tell you about more than one doctor who came to no good end through
liquor. Their stories are alike in their early furtiveness, then a brazen
attitude of liquor-might-do-things-to some- men- but- I'm-different, then a
broken desperation to try to keep up appearances and pretend nothing has
happened, and finally exposure and failure-and disgrace. One brilliant
ex-surgeon a suicide; another exile from home; two others forgotten by their
friends; so runs the history.
But Dr. X handled his liquor problem differently. He came close enough to
degradation to see how the jaws of hell reaching out for him. But then
something
interfered and saved him.
Today Dr. X -- and I dare not give his name, or even the name of the city,
for
Dostları ilə paylaş: |