member.
Then there was the Mexico fiasco where AAWS didn't technically sue but
the main GSO's price increase on the Big Book to $28. The second GSO was
and they began to print little Big Books, once again in the public domain. A
(gallery5 at mindspring.com)
My home group came very close. A treasurer stole $1200 over a 3 month
period.
Our bills were not being paid, etc. Of course eventually that came back to
the
group as a whole. At the time he was a ward of the state and collected SSI.
He
was not necessarily a stable member to begin with even though he had 12
years.
At our group conscience meeting we (not all) voted that if we did press
charges
he would spend a month or so in jail and we would never see the money
anyway.
That action would not be very beneficial to his recovery. We also considered
it
an outside issue. Whether or not we were correct, that's what we did. After
this
incident, he decided to move ... oh, how convenient.
Steve Hudson
Southern Idaho
- - - -
From: "mrpetesplace"
(peter at aastuff.com)
I've know of several times the money was gone by those trusted but never
heard
of charges being pressed. One situation I remember hearing a year later
where a
check was received from one person for the funds in question.
Only time I've heard of charges being pressed were by individual members,
once
being punched out after a meeting. Another was stabbed in the back leaving a
meeting. But in both cases, it was individuals and no action was taken to
ban
the members in question.
This will be interesting to hear if there was. I believe one Area Assembly I
attended had a very large amount missing. I don't know if any action was
taken
or not, it was probably 12-15 years ago and I had relocated since.
Pete
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++++Message 6978. . . . . . . . . . . . Clipping service for GSO scrapbooks
From: gadgetsdad . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 9:47:00 PM
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Has anyone ever done any research about the clipping service that Bill used?
These are the ones in the big scrapbooks that GSO produces. I am curious as
to
where the money came from in that chaotic time.
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++++Message 6979. . . . . . . . . . . . Kate Lee and Twice Born Men
From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/31/2010 5:08:00 PM
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Salvation Army book about a woman named Kate Lee is related to Twice Born
Men.
Now available online:
The Angel Adjutant of "Twice Born Men"
by Minnie Lindsay Rowell Carpenter
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=7039
=================================================
Kate Lee had been a Salvation Army Field Officer for fifteen years, when
suddenly she became famous.
In gathering material for the writing of "Twice Born Men," Harold Begbie had
been no less impressed by the sweetness and wisdom of the woman who had won
from
sin to righteousness several of the notable characters with whom the book
deals,
than he was with the miracle of their conversion.
Just posted for everyone's interest. I had read Twice Born Men and did not
recall her.
ld pierce
www.aabibliography.com
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++++Message 6980. . . . . . . . . . . . Listening to BBC Radio on your
computer
From: Dudley Dobinson . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 6:22:00 AM
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Here is a link for listening to the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_radio_fourfm
Hope this helps.
In fellowship - Dudley D. - Birr,Ireland
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++++Message 6981. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio
4 on November 3
From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 1:40:00 AM
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Hi all
It's actually 12.45 Pacific Time -- you are 8 hours behind us.
Regards
Fiona
- - - -
From: Charley Bill
(charley92845 at gmail.com)
Has anyone determined what time these presentations will be heard in the
States?
I am challenged by such things as time determination, and would appreciate
some
help. We are in the Pacific Daylight Savings Time Zone until 2 AM Nov 7 when
we
revert to Pacific Standard Time.
- - - -
FROM THE MODERATOR:
http://www.worldtimezone.com/
http://everytimezone.com/
http://www.timezonecheck.com/
European Union Summer Time:
End: last Sunday in October -- 1 am GMT on 31 Oct 2010
Start: last Sunday in March -- 1 am GMT on 27 Mar 2011
United States Daylight Saving Time:
End: first Sunday in November -- 2 am on 7 Nov 2010
Start: second Sunday in March -- 2 am on 13 Mar 2011
- - - -
From: "Mike Cullen"
(mcullen at shaw.ca)
We should be able to listen to BBC recordings on the net later and it may
also
be a podcast.
Mike
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++++Message 6982. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How many angels can stand on the
head of a pin?
From: MattD . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 6:54:00 PM
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Article on this topic written by Thomas A. Powers
(Bill Wilson's main editorial consultant).
- - - -
Dear Group,
I couldn't help but share this article since it actually is about "how many
angels can stand on the head of a pin." It was written by Thomas E. Powers
(Bill
Wilson's main editorial consultant) and appeared in the August 1974 issue of
24
Magazine.
- - - -
HOW MANY?
by Thomas E. Powers
There has been a remarkable change in the mental climate of the human race
in
the past few years. A generation ago "liberals" and "modernists" had gone
very
far, indeed, to explain away anything and everything like miracles, using
science as the basis of their attack. All this is now radically changed by
the
new directions science has taken. You can no longer use science to disprove
the
supernatural or the preternatural, and real scientists know it.
The result is that many things that were considered ridiculously out of the
realm of possibility not so long ago are now back in the categories of the
possibly true and even of the probably true.
But this new situation — with new dimensions in science permitting and
supporting the reappearance of eternal truths in force — is subject to the
phenomenon called "cultural lag." We continue to suffer from certain
hangovers
of 19th century "scientific" debunking of the preternatural. For example,
when
the subject of angels comes up modern men still are very apt to say, "Oh,
but,
of course, angels don't really exist." This is a typical example of negative
superstition, based upon the pseudoscience or upon the incomplete and
overconfident science of years gone by. There is no indication that angels
do
not exist, except in the prejudices of certain people who never have
seriously
looked into the subject and indeed are not very well qualified to do so.
Over and over again in my life I have had to listen, and now my children are
having to listen, to modern teachers despising and patronizing the medieval
scholastics and giving as a prime example of their folly the fact that they
debated the question, "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?" Not
for
a moment is it asked whether these old scholars had a real issue under
consideration. There is only the crude assumption that these earnest
inquirers
into higher realities were fools.
As a matter of fact, the question which the scholastics were considering is
a
most interesting one, having to do with the nature of angels. The question
is:
"Given the fact that an angel is a created being of a higher order than the
embodied beings we commonly experience, i.e., men, animals and vegetables;
and
given also the fact that holy scripture repeatedly describes angels as using
bodies and employing bodily faculties in their dealings with men; what,
then, is
the quality of an angel's body? (1) Does its substantiality extend to the
gross
matter of the phenomenal world with which we are familiar (even though not
bound
by gravity as we are)? If so, only one angel can stand on the point of a
pin. Or
(2) is the substantiality of an angel's body of a much subtler nature, such
for
example as cosmic rays, electronic energies, etc.? Or (3) is the angel's
body
perhaps a form of such fine substantiality that it exceeds our categories of
matter and energy altogether? In either of the latter two cases, any number
of
angels can stand on the point of a pin, because while gross bodies exclude
each
other from a given area of space, certain kinds of subtle bodies are not so
limited, and numbers of them, without confusion or inconvenience, may occupy
the
same space.
The question about the angels and the point of a pin is not at all a
ridiculous
question. It becomes so only if we assume, as many modern people still do,
that
"of course, angels do not exist." If these moderns are right in their
assumption, belief in angels is a dark superstition. But if they are wrong
(and
they very well may be), then who is in dark superstition?
Men who, without serious and humble reflection, leap to the conclusion that
angels do not exist make a blind and reckless judgment about the nature and
the
inhabitants of the universe in which we live. And from there it is an easy
step
to the further blind judgment that the King of the Angels also does not
exist,
that in this cosmos there is no Lord, no Master, no Supreme Being.
We "scientific" moderns had better be careful whom we call fools. We may be
right on the point of discovering, with a vengeance, who the real fools are.
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++++Message 6983. . . . . . . . . . . . Who wrote Living Sober?
From: John Moore . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/1/2010 10:03:00 PM
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In "The Book That Started It All" AA original working manuscript recently
published by Hazelden ... in the introductory pages they trace the
whereabouts
of the original manuscript, and state that Lois Wilson gave it as a New
Year's
gift to her dear friend Barry Leach, with whom she had been very close for
many
years.
They go on to say that Barry Leach was the author of the book "Living
Sober."
My understanding of Living Sober comes from being a newcomer in the early
1970's. My home group received a solicitation from New York asking for
stories
or contributions to this book which was planned for publication about 1975
as I
recall. It seemed to me that our members are the authors of this volume and
I
have never before heard mention of Barry Leach's work on it ... can anyone
shed
more light on this?
Thanks,
John M
South Burlington, Vermont
- - - -
From the moderator: the only known photo of Barry Leach was taken by Mel
Barger.
A copy can be found at
http://www.aabibliography.com/barry_leach_living_sober.html
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++++Message 6984. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith
magazine
From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 10:22:00 AM
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I believe the Works Publishing Inc Report to the Shareholders dated
6/30/1940
identifies the magazine as "Your Faith."
God Bless
John
- - - -
From: tomper87
Subject: Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith magazine
The following is the mention of Dr. Bob's "Faith" magazine article from "Dr.
Bob
and the Good Old Timers" pp. 175-176:
=========================
"At this time, Dr. Bob wrote and may have signed an article on A.A. and the
Big
Book that appeared in the August 1939 issue of a magazine called Faith."
=========================
This mentions that the magazine is called "Faith" and not "Your Faith". Are
these the same magazines?
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++++Message 6985. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio
4 on November 3
From: Stephen Aberle . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 5:53:00 PM
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I listened in but was not impressed by what was said.
I had expected some further insight into "The Book That Started it All", but
was
instead given a generalized rehash (incorrect on some points) of AA history
and
how AA works (in his opinion).
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++++Message 6986. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who wrote Living Sober?
From: Jeff Bruce . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 6:09:00 PM
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You might try this site
http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php
and type "Barry L" into the search box. I believe that one of the two links
will provide you with a speaker tape by him which might have the information
you want.
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:03 PM, John Moore
wrote:
>
>
> In "The Book That Started It All" AA original working manuscript recently
> published by Hazelden ... in the introductory pages they trace the
> whereabouts of the original manuscript, and state that Lois Wilson gave it
> as a New Year's gift to her dear friend Barry Leach, with whom she had
been
> very close for many years.
>
> They go on to say that Barry Leach was the author of the book "Living
> Sober."
>
> My understanding of Living Sober comes from being a newcomer in the early
> 1970's. My home group received a solicitation from New York asking for
> stories or contributions to this book which was planned for publication
> about 1975 as I recall. It seemed to me that our members are the authors
of
> this volume and I have never before heard mention of Barry Leach's work on
> it ... can anyone shed more light on this?
>
> Thanks,
> John M
> South Burlington, Vermont
>
> - - - -
>
> From the moderator: the only known photo of Barry Leach was taken by Mel
> Barger. A copy can be found at
>
> http://www.aabibliography.com/barry_leach_living_sober.html
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 6987. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s two books on
philosophy at Towns?
From: Roy Levin . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/31/2010 6:16:00 PM
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Good point, if Bill was "the broker" referred to, although he was more a
"securities analyst" and pool manager than a phone salesman like most
"account
executives" who dial for dollars. But if Silkworth was referring to Bill,
the
good doctor's putting him as "heading a large corporation" is exaggeration
worthy of both Bill and super-promoter Hank, because Bill didn't have a real
world job position or a pot to piss in for years in early sobriety.
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++++Message 6988. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio
4 on November 3
From: Des Green . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 7:15:00 PM
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To listen to it on line, click here:
BBC - BBC Radio 4 - Programmes - The AA Bible
- - - -
That is, click on the main BBC home page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
Then on Radio -- World Service -- Radio 4
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/
Then in "Find a Programme," click on the letter A
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/a-z/by/a
Go to the 10th item down: "AA Bible, The"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vr78f
- - - -
SENT IN BY Des Green
(puggreen2008 at yahoo.co.uk)
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++++Message 6989. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio
4 on November 3
From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:56:00 AM
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This was almost painful to listen to. Filled with inaccuracies. It
seemed as if it was someone who knew little to nothing about AA and/or
AA history. More than disappointing, I would say more like, disturbing!
Mike Margetis
Brunswick, Maryland
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++++Message 6990. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Who wrote Living Sober?
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:53:00 AM
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Barry was hired by AAWS to put the manuscript of Living Sober (then
unpublishable) into shape for publication. He did a huge amount of rewriting
and
was paid the editorial fee for which he contracted (I think it was maybe
$4,000
for what was pretty much a year's work -- some details are in the Kirk
Collection at Brown -- possibly in the Clarence S[-----] Papers.
I believe he requested some royalty-sharing, given the thorough rewrite and
especially reorganization he did, but never got it.
You could say he was the principal author of Living Sober, just as you could
say
Bill was the principal author of AA Comes of Age -- but we say Bill "wrote"
AACOA.
Lois left the corrected printer's typescript of the Big Book to Barry,
partly (I
have heard) because she thought he had deserved more for "writing" LS than
he
had received.
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++++Message 6991. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio
4 on November 3
From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 10:23:00 AM
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This show was the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard!
Just Love,
Barefoot Bill
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++++Message 6992. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Clipping service for GSO
scrapbooks
From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 11:31:00 AM
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The link below can give you an overview of the history of Burrelle's
Clipping
Service:
http://www.burrellesluce.com/company/history
- - - -
Original message from: "gadgetsdad"
>
> Has anyone ever done any research about the clipping service that Bill
used?
These are the ones in the big scrapbooks that GSO produces. I am curious as
to
where the money came from in that chaotic time.
>
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++++Message 6993. . . . . . . . . . . . Fr. Ralph Pfau, My Retreat Booklet
and Way of the Cross
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/6/2010 4:00:00 PM
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Someone at the St. Francis Retreat Center in San Juan Bautista, California,
e-mailed me and asked me about this book by Father Ralph Pfau, entitled "My
Retreat Booklet and Way of the Cross." The e-mail said:
"Recently, we had a Gratitude group of men who were using a little pamphlet
book: My Retreat Booklet and Way of the Cross by Ralph Pfau. The retreatants
really love this booklet. I am trying to find some copies to purchase or
reproduce. I have not been successful in locating it. It was published in
1955.
I expected to have problems due to the date. But, it is so wanted by these
retreatants that I thought I would really try to find it."
I cannot figure out what book this e-mail is referring to. Does anyone in
this
group know anything about a book by Father Ralph which has that title?
Thanks,
Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)
____________________________________
Father Ralph Pfau was one of the four most-
published early AA authors, for more about
him see: http://hindsfoot.org/pflou1.html
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++++Message 6994. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who wrote Living Sober?
From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 3:17:00 PM
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J Lobdell wrote:
"I believe he requested some royalty-sharing, given
the thorough rewrite and especially reorganization
he did, but never got it."
In the history manuscript by Bob P., he claims that Barry L. only made
demands for more compensation after the book became more popular than
expected.
"but we say Bill 'wrote' AACOA"
If you get a set of tapes from the 1955 conference in St. Louis and play
Bill's
talks with the AA Comes of Age book in hand you will find that the book is
almost completely transcribed from the tapes.
Jim
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++++Message 6995. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed
charges against a member?
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:59:00 AM
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From Jared Lobdell, Sherry Hartsell, Tommy Hickcox, an AA member from
Stockholm
in Sweden, Kimball Rowe, and Baileygc23
- - - -
From: "J. Lobdell"
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)
In the words of the late Michael Alexander, Class A Trustee, sometime
Chairman
of the Board, the lawyer who helped Bill write the Twelve Concepts (and
loaned
him a copy of Tocqueville's Democracy in America in the process), ideally
"in AA
we don't go to law, we go to prayer."
- - - -
From: "Sherry C. Hartsell"
Dostları ilə paylaş: