I am the moderator Nobuo Tanaka, former executive director of the iea, International

recognized the issue, and I think that there are any for us, that we have very strict commitment. And if 

you look at the present situation, 80% of the energy is based on the fossil fuels, 30% is the coal, and the 

rest is oil and gas. And if we look in perspective, the International Energy Agency gave us the 

perspective that by 2030 the energy mix is practically still the same – we have 70% of fossil fuels, we 

have the a renewable that pass 1%, or a while to 4%, and that with this kind of scenario things are not 

changing, and at least we don’t change the energy mix. So the real point is to change the energy mix. In 

energy, we know that we are producing about 32 bln tons of CO2 per year, and a big part of that is due to 

coal. 40% of coal is responsible for 70% of the CO2 emissions. So, the solution is really to change the 

energy mix. First of all, because we have the possibility – we have the huge amount of gas discovered, 

and we can move it.  In Europe we have one of the best network in terms of pipes, recalcifiers and 

storage facilities, and unfortunately, what happened is that in the last 7-8 years we lost about 100 bln 

cubic meters per year. So we are reducing the gas, we are increasing the subsidies for the renewable that 

is very expensive, very increased the bill for the European consumers, but at the same time we are 

increasing the coal consumption, we are increasing by about 10% of coal, and we are increasing 

renewable. So, instead of going to the right road, to the right direction – the gas and renewable system to 

reduce the CO2 – we are going toward the worst one – coal and renewable. 1% of coal is destroying 10% 

of renewable. So, that mean, we are not subsidizing the renewable, we are subsidizing the coal, but that is 

normal because is the market that is leading. There is no policy. So, I think that the energy mix is 

something that we are to address. In the CAP21 in Paris big success is true, but no one is talking about 

coal, everybody avoid to talk about coal, everybody avoid to take strict commitment. Only Europe took a 

very strong one in terms of emissions, efficiency and CO2 reduction. So I think that, also for the long run 

we need the fossil fuel, we need absolutely to reduce coal, we need to increase gas, and we need to focus 

on the right energy mix. And we have to consider also that we’re talking about developed countries, but 

we have a lot of people that are still using biomass, and access to energy is not completed, and we have 

600 mln people in Africa without energy, they’re using biomass, and that is causing millions of death 

every year. So I think that we have also to think about that we are going to increase our needs - from now 

to 2030 we are to increase by 21% the energy needs, so we have to be realistic and think that fossil fuel is 

there, we are to develop, we are to use fossil fuels, we are to make the right choice, and I think we have 

to provide access to energy to a large number of people. So, I think that we have to be realistic, with our 

feet on the ground and understand the situation, and work to develop energy. And for that reason, the 

point that we are like before. Now we are really in a structural situation, we don’t have any more 

regulators, so the fundamentals are driving the market, but we invest without knowing what will be the 

floor for the price, it’s not easy. In 2014, when investors understood that OPEC didn’t want to play the 

same role that it played the last 30 years, all the long positions left ran away, and does it only the short 

positions, the edge remained on the market, and the volatility, and the financial volatility increased a lot. 

So, from one side, we are to invest for the next 30 years, we don’t have any more long institutional, the 

long position in the market. And there is no floor. Before we knew that when the price was $70-80, we 

reduced production and increased the price. Now there’s no more like that. So, I think that the future will 

be very difficult. We have the call-21, we have all these environmental targets, but we need energy. So, 

we are to think about the energy mix and also how to remain steady in our price to allow us to invest. 

Thank you. 

Nobuo Tanaka: Thank you, Claudio. Before moving… yes, coal is a very interesting issue. In Japan, 

because the nuclear plant was shut down, coal is very cheap and attractive, so many plants are coal 

plumbing plants were on-going, but suddenly there’s a risk – if carbon price or carbon tax may rise in the 

future, this could cause strangled assets, and that’s a warning for the Japanese industry not to go too far. 

To stop this kind of thing, usually, the many companies have internal carbon price for future investment 

criteria. In Eni, do you have internal carbon price? Of what level? 

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Claudio Descalzi: Yes, we have. We have price for each project – a price of $40 per ton, and that is what 

we… the price that we run our economics. 

Nobuo Tanaka: Thank you. Bob, how about BP? You have $40? 

Robert Dudley: $40. 

Nobuo Tanaka: $40, okay, that’s very interesting. How about Patrick? Total has $40? 

Patrick Pouyanné: We have 30 to 40 according to the oil price. We are more clever, maybe. 

Nobuo Tanaka: Interesting. How about you, Lorenzo? 

Lorenzo Simonelli: So, we actually go with $40. 

Nobuo Tanaka: $40, interesting. So, almost everybody has $40. How about you, Igor? Do you have 

internal carbon price in Rosneft? 

Igor Sechin: Our price is lower. 

Nobuo Tanaka: Thank you very much. Well, let’s move to the next question to Gérard Mestrallet of 

Engie, the major gas company of France. Said that gas sector, as Mr Sechin mentioned, is promising in 

the future. So, under the current oil market, oil price situation, how do you see the future of the gas, and 

how do you see the cooperation with Russia in your company? 

Gérard Mestrallet: Thank you, Tanaka-san, thank you, Mr Sechin and Rosneft. At first, my company 

Engie – Engie is a new name of GDF Suez. We are not an oil and gas company but power and gas 

company, and among the $80 bln, more from half come from natural gas. By the way, we are today the 

second largest buyer of natural gas in Europe and the largest energy importer in Europe. So, we are very 

much concerned about the future of natural gas, and for the last 40 years, we have said 40 years of 

cooperation – initially with Soyuzneftegaz Export. We have bought more than 300 bln cubic meters from 

Russia, and Russia presents today 22% of our supplies in gas in Europe. Well, we consider that natural 

gas is the future, brilliant future in the energy mix – not only in Europe, but in the world. And the 

relationship between European Union and Russia should be strengthening in the future. One of the main 

reasons is that because of the decline in European natural gas production in Netherlands, in Germany, 

and in United Kingdom. And so, even if the demand for natural gas in Europe would be more or less 

stable or even declining, the decline of the domestic production in Europe will be faster than the demand. 

And so, the need for import will increase in Europe, and therefore, I consider that there’s an agreed 

potential for partnership between Russia and the EU. There is a complementarity. Instead of speaking of 

reliancy or dependence, I prefer to speak about intercooperation and interdependency between Russia and 

Europe. Europe needs to import more natural gas from Russia, and Russia needs to sell its natural gas to 

Europe. I would like to also mention the fact that in order to improve the security of supply of Western 

Europe, natural gas infrastructures are keen. And the involvement of Engie in Nord Stream 1 and Nord 

Stream 2 projects clearly fits with this perspective. In September 2015 with the experience of Nord 

Stream 1 we decided to join the Nord Stream 2 project even, we mentioned that publicly, we mentioned 

our support even during sanctions period that was not always so easy. And I’m pleased to mention, to 

present sir Gerhard Schröder here, our chairman here, in Nord Stream. This is one of the crucial gas 

projects for the supply of Engie, my company for I work in Europe, and France, and also for Europe 

based on the first commercial and technological success, we need to increase the capacities of supply of 

Western Europe from Russia natural gas. And I’d like to mention also that it is a truly European project 

with several European companies from 6 different countries – from France, from UK, Netherlands, 

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