Oral History of Linus Torvalds
CHM Ref: X4147.2008 © 2008 Computer History Museum Page 32 of 41
Torvalds: The typical day is I
get up, during the summer I’m not a morning person, so during the summer
when the kids don’t have to go to school it’s usually around 9:00. Get up and go downstairs in my
bathrobe. I don’t even get dressed. I commute all the way by walking downstairs here,
and then I usually
sit there until noon or so, at which point I get showered and get dressed and take a short break and then I
go back and sit read email some more. That’s really what I do. Literally the only thing I do is I read email. I
integrate the work from other people.
Booch: Do you do much programming now yourself?
Torvalds:
I don’t. I do some but that’s not what I consider to be my main job anymore. For a while, like a
year and a half ago, I did a fair amount of programming, a year and a half, two years ago because I
ended up doing my own source control management system, and I actually did programming in user
space just to maintain the Kernel sources, so I’m happy to say that CVS [Concurrent Versioning System]
is actually going away and my system will replace it.
Booch: Yay, and that system is called?
Torvalds: Git. The joke is I name all my projects after myself. First Linux then Git and all the Americans
say ‘what’s the joke?’ But ‘Git’ is British slang for a despicable person or unpleasant p
erson. It was really
just a three-
letter combination that’s easy to type.
Booch:
So what’s your current machine? I’m sure you’re running Vista, right?
Torvalds:
Right. My current machine as of the last few days is … one of the nice things about doing
operating systems is all these system vendors want to give you like early heads-
up. So right now I’m
running this unreleased setup from Intel that it’s a sweet machine. You get the new hardware
to make sure it works and that there aren’t any huge
surprises, and quite frankly I mean most of the-- by
the time I’m ready to take it, other people have already made sure that it basically works. I used to enjoy
doing bring-
up,,but I don’t have the time anymore, quite frankly.
Booch: To what would you att
ribute Linux’s amazing success? How did it explode?
Torvalds:
It’s all me. We need to change the tape?
Booch:
In a minute. We can change it now? We can change it now. Let’s change it now.
END OF TAPE 3
Booch: So, the question was in retrospect, why do you think Linux has been so wildly popular as it is?
Torvalds: I'd like to say it's all me. I mean, a lot of it was just being in the right place at the right time,
doing the right thing. And part of it is, so, like, traditionally Unix, even the free Unixs that did exist and, I
mean, still do exist I think their mindset was, you know, very traditionally Unix gutter really. They were
doing the whole-- they'd given up on the desktop. And to me the desktop was the only thing that was
interesting because that's what I wanted to have. And Unix was in this server rut than just-- including the
Oral History of Linus Torvalds
CHM Ref: X4147.2008 © 2008 Computer History Museum Page 33 of 41
free ones, I think. And so Linux had the same good, like, technical foundations in a concepts kind of way.
But at the same time had a very different way of doing things, not just development model, but also the
kind of people we reached out to when the free Unixs tended to reach out to all Unix hackers. Most Linux
programmers tend to come from a younger crowd, but also more of a DOS/Windows kind of background
that we're just looking-- I mean, they usually had some including about Unix. But it was more of a-- I think
it was a culture that was slightly more accepting of DOS and Windows actually. Even though, then, Linux
is known as this anti-Windows crowd, I don't actually think it's all that true.
Booch: What's your opinion on Windows, speaking of being opinionated?
Torvalds: My opinion is I don't actually care because I've never really had to use it. I never, I mean,
it's…
Booch: What do you think it'll take for Linux to really break through on the desktop to get really
encroaching upon the market share of the Windows role?
Torvalds: One thing is just lots of time, I mean, which I was a bit naive about too, clearly. But one of the
issues is just-- especially the desktop, there's just this huge mindshare for people to change. And it's
quite easy to just go with the flow and all the networking effects definitely favor the incumbent. And
Microsoft has really needed to screw up as badly as they have lately and Linux just needs time to get
more mindshare. I mean, there's a lot of technical issues too like all the programs and things. It turns out
the Web helped a lot there because a lot of the programs-- one of the strengths of DOS and Windows has
been all these odd programs. I mean, there's millions of specialized programs for DOS and Windows and
they're to some degree going away. Because a lot of these specialized programs, like, people used to
maintain their-- I mean, tax preparation was a big deal right in the U.S., balancing your checkbook, all
these things, and there's millions of them. But it turns out a lot of them are done over the Web now
anyway. So, that kind of made it easier for people to get into the whole desktop space. And-- so, that's
one of the things that has been helping out a lot.
Booch: And the whole abStack. I mean, Linux is pervasive. You speak of the
Internet, Linux is
pervasive in that space.
Torvalds: You know. But on the other hand, that abStack tends to be more of a traditional Unix
abStack. So, a lot of the desktop applications have actually been written for Linux or with-- not
necessarily exclusively for Linux, but have Linux as being a big part of that, including very much like the
windowing-- the Window manager environments that people use today. And, let's face it, Unix used to
have horrible designed-by-committee Window managers. And Linux really ended up being the thing that
revitalized that whole space. Before Linux there was-- people were giving up.
Booch: So, you were a little self-deprecating at the beginning, but I think you have to admit that Linux
wouldn't have existed without you. Your managerial style and your leadership style are utterly unique.
Torvalds: There's a few things that I think do work and one of them is not caring too much, oddly
enough. It's like I think what does not work and what a lot of projects end up doing is that they care very
much about one specific model, right. You have an overarching goal and you want to push that one thing
and Linux never had that. In fact, I mean, from the very first day it was like, okay guys, can you please