Aa history Lovers 2004 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page

titled Scottish gentleman farmer, had gone to a World Christian Association

conference in the USA, where a group of businessmen were trying to bring God

into industry by setting up breakfast clubs for prayer. Philip thought that

maybe doing good work like that would help him stay off drink. At the very

first session he met an old time Philadelphia AA, George R, 'who gave him AA

right off the spiritual main line.' wrote Bill W in AA Comes of Age. The

head of one of Scotland's most ancient clans sobered up on the spot. 'In

March, Philip visited London and contacted general secretary, Lottie.'

"A month later, she was referring enquiries to him, and Philip began what

was to be a series of 12-step visits to hospitals and prisons criss-crossing

Scotland. 'My difficulties are several,' he wrote to her that same month. 'I

am actively engaged in farming and what with lambing and seeding I have been

up to the eyes.
"'My next problem is that I live in the most out of the way spot imaginable

... a very small size fishing town and the fishermen are a comparatively

sober lot so not much scope locally. It is obvious to get AA going in

Scotland I shall have to collect one or two in either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Possibly out of the letters you say you have which please send on, I may be

able to make a start.'

"Philip paid Forbes C. to go round Scotland telling interested parties about

AA. It wasn't easy. 'You know as well as I do that the Scottish alcoholics

are pretty tough cases,' wrote Lottie in September 1948.
"According to this letter, Forbes 'was asked by Marty M[ann] (the visiting

alcoholism expert from the USA who was also an AA member) and Philip to go

off ... to see if a real group could not be started. Forbes succeeded and

there is one group in Perth and another one will be in Edinburgh and

Glasgow.' The first Edinburgh meeting was held in Mackie's Restaurant,

Princes Street.

"Philip had made contact with Jack McK of Glasgow, who had been a patient at

Gilgal Hospital in Perth. And in the spring of 1949, other patients in the

same hospital became interested. In February that year a meeting was held in

the Waverley Hotel, Perth. Five people attended.

"Meanwhile in Glasgow, Philip and Jack McK had contacted Jimmy R, a patient

of Crichton Royal, Dumfries, and an alcoholic named Charlie B. In March

1949, there was a public meeting held in the St. Enoch's Hotel, Glasgow,

with 54 people present. Fourteen expressed some interest but only four

showed up
at the second meeting - Philip, Jimmy R, Jack McK and John R. Philip paid

the expenses for the first three or four sessions and they decided to hold

regular meetings every Tuesday evening.
"Attendance was not encouraging. But a visit from Gordon M, an American,

persuaded them to register as a group with the New York office. Thus in May

1949 both Edinburgh First and Glasgow Central became part of the official

record.
"By November 1949 a letter from Jimmy F reported that the Edinburgh group

was flourishing. There was 'a stable nucleus' by the end of the year and a

Dr. Clark in charge of a ward in Edinburgh Hospital was referring patients

to the Fellowship.
"The Glasgow members were also active in contacting doctors. Consultant

Psychiatrist A. Balfour Sclare recalled: 'To the best of my recollection

Alcoholics Anonymous first made its impact upon psychiatrists ... in the

Glasgow area when a member of this Fellowship gave an address on its modus

operandi at the Lansdowne Clinic in 1949.'
"Philip continued to do his best from his Scottish farm. One of the

prospects he interested was a John MD, an inmate of Greenock Prison. He sent

Forbes to talk to the governor and later wrote himself in August 1949: 'If

you feel it would be any use either I or one of the Glasgow members would be

only too willing to come to Greenock and have a few talks with him about the

movement
... I am perfectly willing to have a try with him provided he, himself, will

honestly make up his mind to chuck alcohol for good, otherwise it is just a

waste of time talking to him.'"

_______
More On Sir Philip Dundas and How AA Got Started in Scotland
I have finished reading the book "Sir Philip Dundas," by Jenny Wren. It was

Philip Dundas who started AA in Scotland. "Jenny Wren" is really Myfanwy

[yes, I spelled it correctly] Baldwin. At first her siblings called her

"Myffie" but then changed it to "Vannie" which she has been called by her

family ever since.
But Sir Philip, called her his "little Jenny Wren." (Jenny Wren is the name

of a character in a Charles Dickens novel, and also the name of a rose.)

I asked Mrs. Baldwin, with whom I have been in touch by e-mail, if she knew

whether he had called her Jenny Wren because of the character Dickens or

because of the rose. She believes he called her that because he thought the

wrinkled little baby looked like a little brown bird, a wren.

Mrs. Baldwin writes in the book: "My mother described my father as somewhat

tipsy but in a very good mood on his first visit to see me. He presented my

mother with a brooch and asked her if it went with the new baby. Then he

picked me up in his arms and walked up and down the room with me calling me

his little Jenny Wren. So apart from half his genetic make-up my first gift

from my father was my nom de plume for the purposes of his story."

Sir Philip was born in 1899, and inherited his father's title in 1930,

becoming the fourth Baronet of Arniston.

He had been educated in the finest schools, including the prestigious

Harrow, where his father had also been educated.

In July of 1918, Philip was given a commission in the Black Watch (42nd

Foot, Royal Highlanders). In 1920, when Europe was still dealing with the

aftermath of the war, Philip was sent to Silesia to serve with the 2nd

Battalion in the disputed zone on the borders of Germany and Poland.

The 1920s brought tragedy to the family.
In 1922, Philip's brother David, 19, who was serving in the Navy, was killed

when his boat -- a mine sweeper -- disappeared at sea. Only three of the

crew was found, but not David. Philip could not be with his family during

this tragic time, as he was serving in Silesia.

In 1928 Philip was serving in India when he brother Henry, who was in the

Malay states, contracted blackwater fever and died at age 27. None of the

family was able to get there for the funeral.
And then, in the winter of 1930, his father -- while sailing from

Southampton on his way to Capetown, South Africa -- died suddenly of a heart

attack, and was buried at sea.
So at age 31, following several family tragedies, Philip found himself head

of the family, with all the responsibilities of his title. His daughter says

that "Psychologically he may have felt somewhat battered at this time

following three close family deaths."

Just when Philip began drinking, she doesn't say, but by the time he assumed

his title he was showing signs of strain. "He began to drink quite heavily

and at times seemed unable to control the amount he drank. A photograph of

him ... in April 1932 shows that he had put on weight and his face looked

troubled."
By 1932, his drinking was often out of control, and his mother was growing

extremely concerned about him.

She turned to her friend and neighbor, Violet Hood, for advice. Violet's

daughter, Jean, was a very religious girl. She had joined the Oxford Group,

with whom she had traveled to America where she attended meetings. They

thought that perhaps the Oxford Group could help Philip. So Jean was called

to talk to him.
But much to her mother's dismay, Jean and Philip fell in love. (Violet had

taken quite a fancy to Philip's brother Tom and had been heard to tell his

mother how proud she would be to have a son like Tom. But Philip was quite

another story.) Jean's parents were concerned at the situation she might be

getting into, and they decided to consult the Oxford Group about the

problem.
Philip's mother, on the other hand was delighted, probably thinking that

Jean would be a good influence on her son. Jean, however, thought that the

Dundases probably felt she was not quite "out of the top drawer."

The Oxford group seemed unable to help. It seemed to Jean that they were

against the idea of her marrying Philip and wanted her to give him up. But

Jean would not, and they were married.
Their daughter says that Jean had not known Philip well during their

childhood as he was more than ten years her senior, but she never could

resist a "lame duck."
"Now she became determined that God could heal this young man, and put all

her energies into helping wherever she could."

Philip and Jean produced a son, Henry, in 1937, and a daughter, Althea, in

1939.
By the 1940s Philip's drinking was making Philip's behavior towards his wife

impossible and she left him and planned to divorce him. But Philip soon

persuaded her to return and try again, "and promised to do something about

the drinking problem."
His Jenny Wren was born after the reconciliation, in 1946. Another daughter,

Joanne, was born in 1949.

Philip had been trying for some time to find a solution to his drinking

problem and by 1947 "as a member of MRA, had with their help achieved a

measure of control." [I believe "MRA" may refer to "moral rearmament," the

new name for the Oxford Group.]

Mrs. Baldwin reports that "In 1948 he and Jean visited the United States

apparently at the invitation of the Oxford Group." During his visit to

America he attended a dinner at which he met "George R. who told him of an

organisation, formed some fifteen years earlier, which could help people

with his problem. George thus introduced my father to Alcoholics Anonymous,

and that first meeting was said to have changed his life. It was also said

that from that time forward he did not touch alcohol again."
Bill Wilson, described it like this: "He [Philip] came over to have a look

at the International Christian Leadership Movement, where he met with a

group of businessmen who were interested in bringing God into industry

through the medium of breakfast clubs for prayer and planning. Philip

thought that maybe he could introduce the breakfast club idea to Scotland,

and he hoped that such a good work would loosen his fatal attachment to the

bottle. At the
very first session he met an old-time Philadelphia A.A., George R., who gave

him A.A. right off the spiritual mainline. The head of one of Scotland's

most ancient clans sobered up on the spot. He took A.A. back to his native

heath, and soon alcoholic Scots were drying up all the way from Glasgow ship

chandlers to society folks in Edinburgh."
His daughter reports that he "returned to Britain fired up with all he had

learned in the States and, despite the initial suffering without an

alcoholic drop, had stuck to his resolved and began to feel well and happy

again."
His relationship with his wife improved and he was determined to use his

gifts and talents in helping other people who suffered from alcoholism. He

was now determined to bring AA to Scotland. "His years as an officer in the

army and his family background gave him the confidence of how to go about

this."
His first efforts were not too successful. He then "contacted the Governor

of Gilgal prison and other institutions where men and women with a drinking

problem might be found and asked if he might be allowed to come and talk to

the sufferers. Together with a man called Forbes, who was unemployed at the

time, he attempted to raise an interest in the past successes of this

organization. At first it was slow to take off, as often the people

approached were not interested, but eventually a group of four got together

and gradually interest began to grow."
Some of his letters from this time survive and his daughter says that they

reveal some of his feelings and thoughts about himself.

"As he worked through the agonies of withdrawing from alcohol he gradually

began to feel better both mentally and physically. Washing up pots and pans,

a job he had always loathed, now struck him as something he quite enjoyed

and he would scrub them as hard as he could to see how bright and shiny he

could make them. He began to get to know his own strengths and weaknesses

much better, and was aware that sometimes he was too soft and trusting with

people. He realised that it was easier to see the good in people than to

face up to their faults. He sometimes acknowledged he might not be the best

person to
deal with certain alcoholic cases as people found it easy to deceive him. He

cursed the fact that he had what he called 'a handle' to his name, because

he felt that people believed he might be a soft touch for money."
He was very eager to get AA established in Scotland as quickly as possible.

"He feared complacency as he felt the development might grind to a halt. He

also feared his fellow founders might feel he was being dictatorial and

trying to grab power."

But his daughter says that it was his desire to get as many branches as

possible formed with plenty of capable people to run them. "The Irish set-up

was a case where he felt there was too much dependence on the founder.

Rather ironically he suggested what a disaster this would be should the

founder suddenly die."
As time went by his spent a lot of his time traveling about trying to set up

new branches of AA in Scotland.

Mrs. Baldwin writes that "In April 1950, my father received a personal

letter from Bill Wilson, the founder of AA, stating that he proposed to

visit the British Isles in June and July. This letter also mentioned that

Bill hoped for a short period of rest and sightseeing while in Scotland. My

parents had him and his wife to stay at Fairnington Craigs, and then went

with them on their visit further north."

(There is a wonderful picture in the book of Bill with Sir Philip and an

unidentified man and woman at Dunkeld. Bill is looking very handsome in a

three piece suit as he towers over Sir Philip by at least a head.)
Sir Philip died in 1952. During his final illness his little Jenny Wren read

to him from a pile of Beatrix Potter books, as her mother had read to her

when she was ill. "Those words I couldn't read I made up, and he went along

with it like the good sport he was," she reports.

He was buried at Holy Trinity Church in Melrose. His wife chose words from

St. John's Gospel to go on his gravestone: "For as much as ye have done it

unto the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me."
"It was a reminder of his work in bringing Alcoholics Anonymous to

Scotland," writes his daughter.

His eldest child and only son, Henry, became the fifth Baronet upon the

death of Philip in 1952. He was only 14 when he inherited the title. Sadly,

Harry died unexpectedly at the age of twenty-six. He was buried at Melrose

beside his father. His mother's choice of biblical text for him was "You are

not alone because the father is with you."
Sir Philip's brother Jim then inherited the title.
His little Jenny Wren, who obviously adored her father, ends her book by

saying:
"During the last few years of his life, he gave so much of himself to

setting up further branches of AA in Scotland, and by his death there were

branches in Perth, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Ayr, Dumfries and Inverness.

Today I'm told there are over 900
groups in Scotland. How many people, I wonder, does that mean have been

touched by his courage and conviction? How many families have been enabled

to live normal and happy lives with the help of AA? A few weeks ago it was

the centenary of my father's

birth, and we are now about to start on a new and significant century. I

hope he would be proud of the little acorns that he sowed in Scotland. From

these, people have carried on his work and reached out to those who suffer

in this particular way.

"Most little girls, I'm told, want a dad to be proud of. It has been a

privilege through writing this book to share some of his joys and sorrows,

to discover how courageous he was, and to possess that pride in his memory."
Myfanwy Baldwin (nee Dundas),
Cleobury Mortimer, December 1999.
_______
Sources;
Sir Philip Dundas, by Jenny Wren, M & M Baldwin Press.
Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age.
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++++Message 1667. . . . . . . . . . . . AA in Russia - Letters from Marina K

and Irina K

From: [e-mail] . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/20/2004 3:46:00 AM
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Friends,
In June of 2000 I posted to AA History Buffs (and later transferred to AA

History Lovers) some correspondence from an AA in Russia named Marina K.

which had been forwarded from Barbara in the UK. This resulted in my

receiving copies of some letters from Irina K. in Russia. This post combines

those letters. The originals have been deleted.
Nancy
Letters from Marina to Barbara in the UK:
Good day, Barbara!
I can't answer you letter in moment. It takes some more time for me to read

and write in English, when in Russian.

But it is one more reason for delay. I took part in very interesting thing

in our AA. We name it "avtoprobeg" - it means, that on 30th of April 7 cars

start from one Russian town (Tolyatty). They pass over 3000 kilometers -

Ural (this is a Russian region on the border of Europe and Asia). Every day

- new town, meetings this members of AA of this towns. During the way from

one town to another (it took nearle 4-5 hours) - groups in the cars. It was

wonderful. I was waiting this trip the whole year. I was vry afraid, that

something may happen and I could not take part in this journey. But High

Power gave me such happy opportunity.
It is very difficult for me to tell in English about this trip. It is
difficult yet in Russian - I haven't words. I met my friends (some members

of AA from this towns I had meet in Moscow during last years). I saw

problems of AA in deep Russian regions. I saw, how AA grow there. We visited

7 towns of Ural. And 2 and 3 years ago I was in 2 of this towns. Were was

the all-Russian Convention in this towns (in 1997 - Magnitogorsk, and in

1998
- Glazov). It was difficult decision for Russian AA - to organize such

all-Russian conventions not in Moscow, there we can gather more people, then

in such small towns. But we think: this Convention will help AA in this

regions to grow.
Today, then I visit this towns second time - I saw: it was write decision. I

saw results of our work 2 or 3 years ago.

So, I returned home very weary (we sleep nearly for 3-4 hours at night

during this journey), but very happy.

Now I'll try to write for your letter. [Barbara's newsletter.]
About history of Russian AA and archive documents. We are nearly 13 years

old - but we have problems this our history. The first problem - we don't

exactly know data of beginning. In particular - beginning of Moscow AA.

There was many debates about this 3 years ago - and for today we don't

decide, then Moscow AA began - in 1987 or in 1998. Different people have
different opinions. Today we say, that Russian AA is 13, because it is the

age of St. Peterburg group AA "Almaz" (December 1996). I don't know for

today the eldest group.
Many documents is keeping at homes of some members of AA. Only year ago we

began to take such archives to office. But we have problems - how to keep

them. But the main problem - I don't know a men (or woman) for today, who

want to work this archives. For today we only put this documents in boxes -

but I understand - it needs more serious work.
I know one man - he try to fix events in Russian AA. But he live not in

Moscow. Month ago I get from him document, it name "Chronicle of events of

Russian AA" (4 pages). And this is nearly all, that we have for today about

our history. No, we have some more documents - registration sheets of

Russian groups (since 1995), documents of Conferences from 9 to 12 (12 was

in
this year). We have no documents from Conferences 1st, 2nd, 3rd. We have

only decisions from Conferences from 4th to 8th.
But I think - such problems are not only in Russian AA. It is reality.
Perhaps, we began to think about our history not too late.
About Russian office of AA. It is in Moscow, not in the center - on the

fringe of Moscow. It consist of two small rooms. We have xerox, two

computers, and some more equipment. What we do there? Prepare AA books (3

main books) to printing. (But print them not in office). Prepare booklets

and make copies on Xerox. Unswerving service (telephone), e-mail contacts. 3

time during year we send to all Russian groups (nearly 210 for today)

letters this some information about "AA life" (the analog of BOX), materials

on Service.

Purpose: group consciousness must be informed.
I may tell many detail about work in office, but it is detail. It is every

day work to help people find AA, to help them understand not only one word

(recovery) but 3 important words (Unity - Service - Recovery). This is my

way too - I understand, that I need service to stay sober. For last 2 years,

before I had need to go to another town (this is family situation) - I

worked in office as volunteer - two or three evenings and all Saturday. But

today I
think - it was the happiest time for last 20 years of my life.
We have 2 workers in office, who get money for theirs work: secretary and

accountant. We can't pay them enough money - Russian AA doesn't have mush

money for today. But they do work - and this is not a work of volunteer.
The main problem for today in Russian AA - we have not state registration.
This gives many juridical and organization problems. And for today this

question is open. It is a great problem.

About your another questions. I have never been in England. I have never

been in any foreign country. Last year I was elected a delegate to European

Service Meeting (it was in October). All was good, I get documents, but+ In

August I was informed, that my mother have cancer. She has died. It is a

reason, that I go from Moscow to a small town (I have need to live with my
father for today). But I can't get to Service Meeting in October.
How I learn English? A specialized school in childhood. Then I forgot many.