Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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an outsider might end up in control of the group's major asset. He reported the offer to the trustees and they were very happy, but they could not understand Bill's conclusion and dismay. They pointed out authors very seldom publish their
own works, a well-known fact. The meeting ended with no conclusion. Hank Parkhurst asked Bill, "Why do we bother with those trustees, they have not raised a cent and they are not going to, either. Let's put this proposed book on
a business basis and form a stock company. We'll sell shares to our own folks."
Still, the trustees were skeptical, so Bill went back to see Exman who agreed
the membership should print its own book. The New York Group and Dr. Bob agreed
but the rest of the Akron Group was skeptical. Hank worked out a prospectus for the new publishing company, which they called
"The 100 Men Corporation." They would offer 600 shares for sale at $25 par value
[$25 for each share]. Hank went down to a stationary store, bought blank stock
certificates, typed in his full name, followed by the title "President." The name of the publishing company was "Works Publishing Co.," but the corporation was not registered until several years later. Hank and Bill were each to keep 200 shares for their work on the book, the balance of the 200 shares would be sold for $25 per share. This would raise the $5,000 needed to publish the book. Hank button-holed every member in New York, persuading and brow beating them one-by-one, while Bill followed him around trying to smooth things over, but with all their expertise they still could not sell the certificates. Then Hank had another idea: Why not get a magazine to do an article about the
book and the group? Dr. Silkworth was renting a house from the publisher-owner of the Reader's Digest, a Mr. Williams. Every month Dr. Silkworth sent his rent
to Mr. Walters, who was president of the magazine -- which had a circulation of 12 million readers at that time. So Bill and Hank prevailed upon Dr. Silkworth to send copies of the first two chapters of the Big Book to Walters with a recommendation of the new organization and its founders. That is how they got in
touch with Kenneth Payne, the managing editor of the Reader's Digest. So Bill
and Hank sped off to see Payne, who seemed quite interested -- and assured them
the magazine would want to run an article when the book was ready to hit the streets.
to really sink their teeth into. Now the former doubters began to sign up -- but nearly everyone was broke, so they offered the stock on the installment plan, $5 a month for five months. Most could only afford a single share. When the trustees were informed of the good luck, they signed up, too. Dr. Silkworth and
Dr. Tiebout pitched in, and a few of Bill's Wall Street friends chipped in a little. Charles Towns loaned them $2,500. But he would not buy stock, he wanted a note for security! Eventually, the 200 shares were sold. Finally, the subscribers felt they would eventually get their money back, so everyone got behind the deal. Bill began writing the remainder of the book, making notes on legal pads, and dictating to Ruth Hock in the little office room 601 at 17 William Street. With the writing of the Chapter to the Agnostic and How it Works the fight in New York was on. Bill favored writing a spiritual book that was filled with references to God. Hank Parkhurst led the fight along with another new comer named Jimmy Burwell, to keep the book psychological in nature and no religion. Fitz and the Akron members also favored a spiritual book. The fight almost broke up the little fledging fellowship and Bill eventually compromised including such expressions as "higher power" and God "as we understood him" in the book. Several of the steps were re-written in the process. The original version of the
Twelve Steps is shown below: 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that God could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our wills and our lives over to the care and direction of God. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely willing that God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly on our knees asked Him to remove these shortcomings - holding back nothing. 8. Made a complete list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual experience as the result of this course of action, we tried to carry this message to others, especially alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. In January of 1939 the first draft of the Big Book was complete. Four hundred
multilith copies were produced and distributed to the shareholders and interested parties for review. One of those to review the book was reportedly the "Chief Psychiatrist of NJ" "Dr. Howard" from Montclair, New Jersey who suggested softening the tone of the book to make it appear more suggestive. Dr.
"Howard" is considered to be an alias and may have actually been Dr. Marcus A. Curry, Chief at the NJ State Asylum for the Insane at Greystone Park during the years 1936-40. In April of 1939 the Big Book is published with the name "Alcoholics Anonymous" Bill had credited a New York member (and psychiatric patient) Joe W with the name.
Message 5833 from Jun 26, 2009 Re: Big Book pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? Dr. "Howard" is thought to be an alias. He may have been Dr. Marcus Curry, head
of Greystone in 1939. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Carroll" > > The AA member was Hank Parkhurst - he was living in Montclair NJ at the time. > > Prominent psychiatrist was Dr Howard of Montclair, NJ > > Second psychiatrist was Dr Russell E. Blaisdell, Rockland State Hospital > near Orangeburg NY.
have been Dr. Howard W. S. Potter] Message 5834 from Jared L. Re: Big Book pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? Marcus Curry would fit for "Chief Psychiatrist of the State of NJ" -- more or less -- but there's the possibility (given the "Dr. Howard") that it might be Dr. Howard W. S. Potter (1892-1984), of New York (Letchworth Village), a native-born Jerseyan (Elizabeth, I think) -- tho' I don't know where he was living in 1939. Perhaps someone could check the MS of Howard Potter's reminiscences in the Columbia Medical Library.
From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/20/2009 1:14:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII new Carl Jung book September 20, 2009 The Holy Grail of the Unconscious By SARA CORBET really not directly AA related but might be of interest to those in this group http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/magazine/20jung-t.html LD Pierce aabibliography.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6032. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who suffered from grave emotional and mental disorders? From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/20/2009 1:53:00 PM
abandonment as they are today. In fact, there was little known about such "diagnostic terms" back then. Certainly, any labels used in AA literature meant something very different than they do, clinically, today. So, even if there were such applications to Bill W, they would not mean the same thing as they do today. Notwithstanding there were problems of a mental and emotional nature, we need to be very careful when discussing such labels back that far . . . not just in AA, but in all circumstances. We do a great disservice to people when we try to attach to them such labels. History should deal only with facts, not suppositions or assumptions. Jon Markle/MA Retired Therapist & SA Counseling Dual Diagnosis/COD speciality HS Practitioner, Advisor & Case Consultations Raleigh, NC
copied, duplicated, referred to or otherwise used in any publication, paper or electronic, or digital, for any reason by any person without my written permission.] On Sep 20, 2009, at 1:06 PM, glennccc wrote: > That there was much more wrong with him, in > other words, than just being an alcoholic? > Some kind of psychiatric problem which competent > psychiatrists had put a name on, where he had > been officially diagnosed as being schizophrenic, > manic depressive, a psychopath, or something > else of that sort?
From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/12/2009 4:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Episcopalian minister and Oxford Grouper Sam Shoemaker compared AA to Christianity in "Those 12 Steps as I understand them" (Grapevine, January 1964). "His (Shoemaker's) teaching provided most of the principles embodied in our 12 Steps..." (Grapevine, March 1973). Then there was Fulton Oursler, journalist and novelist ("The Greatest Story Ever Told"). Of the Bible he wrote, "In this one book (actually 66 books) are the two most interesting personalities in the whole world - God and yourself. The Bible is the story of God and man (sic), a love story in which you and I must write our own ending, our unfinished autobiography of the creature and the Creator." And, "Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future." Oursler was in London to interview the archbishop of Canterbury when his wife, Grace O, convened the first known meeting of AA in Britain in her room at the swanky Dorchester Hotel,
in Park Lane on March 31, 1947. But let's not forget that from early days, despite its genesis in first century
Christianity, AA was reaching out to those of other faiths or no faith: "By personal religious affiliation we include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus and a sprinkling of Moslems and Buddhists..." (Foreword to Big Book second edition, 1955). Laurie A. - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) People keep trying to tie AA to religion, but AA says there is no dogma. Bill W
warned that others are sensitive to aggression in the name of spirituality. As Bill W. said, "A new comer may ask, certainly there is something I must believe or do." Bill added, " We cheerfully reply that in AA there are no musts." Of course, our steps are only suggestions. There is one imperative, Bill W said, "Particularly was it imperative to work with others." But like everything else he wrote in the big book, that was only a suggested imperative.
(ArtSheehan at msn.com) There is a phenomenon in AA where a number of members after sobering up engage in reading religious material and/or return to church services and get the notion that clergy members and religions have principles that are "a lot like AA" when it is very much the other way around. In terms of primacy, AA's so-called "12 step approach" (which began as a "6 step approach")
Emerson Fosdick and other influential Christian clergy members (such as Sam Shoemaker) rather than the other way around ....
Twelve Steps From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/16/2009 12:14:00 PM
the Evangelical Roots of the Twelve Steps" By John Blevins Assistant Professor of Pastoral Care Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia
(john.blevins at emory.edu) September 15, 2009 http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/scienceenvironment/1789/we_were_po werl\
There are some things in this article that seem worthy of comment. LD Pierce aabibliography.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6035. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Defects vs shortcomings From: allan_gengler . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/19/2009 12:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm not sure if it's authoritative, but it's mentioned in the preface of "Drop The Rock" by Bill P.
(jax760 at yahoo.com) I've never seen that in print. Joe & Charlie quote Nell Wing as having said that so maybe GTHBT should be checked?
"Lee Carroll" > > I thought I had seen, years ago, somewhere in > print, an alleged comment by Bill W. that when > asked what was the difference between character > defects and shortcomings between step 6 and 7, > that he replied "I didn't mean any difference, > I just didn't want to repeat myself using the > same word twice, I didn't think that was good > writing," or something to that effect. > > I could have sworn I read it somewhere, but > now I can't find it in "As Bill Sees It" or > "AA Comes of Age" or "Pass It On." > > Can anybody give me any documentation for > that statement that Bill W. is supposed to > have made? A book and a page number? > > Lee Carroll, CPA > > (805) 938-1981 >
From: Cece Archer . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2009 2:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I was a student nurse in Missoula, Montana 1945 to 1948. Our hospital always admitted drunks and gave them paraldehyde.
admitted regularly to the wards. Tom K was a local bum but something happened to him after one of his discharges from the hospital. I never knew what happened to Larry.
up with a book under his arm going to visit different patients in private room. I now believe that Tom K discovered Alcoholics Anonymous and was making 12 step calls.
until I myself found Sobriety in AA in 1973. Just thought I would share this little bit of history. Cecilia Archer IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6037. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Harry Emerson Fosdick From: kevinr1211 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2009 4:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA, while not a Christian organization, is based on liberal Christian thought, as was popularly available to our founders.
house, but important elements of its design could be attributed to the style he developed)
Christian and non-Christian, with their objections to certain AA principals because of how those principals were originated. I like the way AA has developed since the early days, with an emphasis on fellowship. Imagine if Bill and Bob had chosen a more mystical spiritual direction with an emphasis on a more monastic or meditative way of life for alcoholics! Their chosen theological strain - Shoemaker as a great example - of the active spiritual life saved me...
where religious people are right, make use of what they offer."
wrote:
> > Episcopalian minister and Oxford Grouper Sam Shoemaker compared AA to Christianity in "Those 12 Steps as I understand them" (Grapevine, January 1964).
"His (Shoemaker's) teaching provided most of the principles embodied in our 12 Steps..." (Grapevine, March 1973). Then there was Fulton Oursler, journalist and novelist ("The Greatest Story Ever Told"). Of the Bible he wrote, "In this one book (actually 66 books) are the two most interesting personalities in the whole world - God and yourself. The Bible is the story of God and man (sic), a love story in which you and I must write our own ending, our unfinished autobiography of the creature and the Creator." And, "Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future." Oursler was in London to interview the archbishop of Canterbury when his wife, Grace O, convened the first known meeting of AA in Britain in her room at the swanky Dorchester Hotel,
in Park Lane on March 31, 1947. > > But let's not forget that from early days, despite its genesis in first century Christianity, AA was reaching out to those of other faiths or no faith:
"By personal religious affiliation we include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus and a sprinkling of Moslems and Buddhists..." (Foreword to Big Book second edition, 1955). > > Laurie A. > > - - - - > > From: Baileygc23@... (Baileygc23 at aol.com) > > People keep trying to tie AA to religion, but AA says there is no dogma. Bill W warned that others are sensitive to aggression in the name of spirituality. > > As Bill W. said, "A new comer may ask, certainly there is something I must believe or do." > > Bill added, " We cheerfully reply that in AA there are no musts." > Of course, our steps are only suggestions. There is one imperative, Bill W said, "Particularly was it imperative to work with others." But like everything else he wrote in the big book, that was only a suggested imperative. > > - - - - > > Original message from ArtSheehan@... > (ArtSheehan at msn.com) > > There is a phenomenon in AA where a number > of members after sobering up engage in > reading religious material and/or return > to church services and get the notion that > clergy members and religions have principles > that are "a lot like AA" when it is very > much the other way around. In terms of > primacy, AA's so-called "12 step approach" > (which began as a "6 step approach") > > [see http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html] > > was likely spiritually in sync with Harry > Emerson Fosdick and other influential > Christian clergy members (such as Sam > Shoemaker) rather than the other way > around .... >
emotional and mental disorders? From: Kimball ROWE . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2009 5:09:00 PM
which said "back then .... any labels used in AA literature meant something very different than they do, clinically, today .... Notwithstanding there were problems of a mental and emotional nature, we need to be very careful when discussing such labels" in terms of modern diagnostic terms.
made this comment: Your observation and blanket statement would apply not only to diagnostic terminolgy (pre-DSM) and clinical settings, but would also apply to every term throughout the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous .... when it comes to emotional and mental disorders, it would be wise to stick with just those described by the Big Book itself and not apply this generation's classification systems on the environment of the 30s.
emotional and mental disorders" that the begining of chapter 5 talks about comes from the alcoholics real underlying problem - the hard core egoic entity? "The self will run riot" talked about later in the book. When I came to AA alot of people laughed when those lines from chapter 5 were read at the begining of the meeting. I never understood why they did that. Until I had written my own 4th step and started on my amends process ... Then I started to laugh too. I think those lines are connected to the "bedevilments" found in chapter 4, page 52: "We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people." This is why I drank, and kept drinking beyond the point when I didn't wanna drink any more. My mind told me that alcohol was a legitimate solution to those bedevilments, and it felt true too. Now if that isn't grave emotional and mental disorder, I dont know what is!
disorders that an alcoholic can suffer from, but just as Dr. Tiebout reported in his articles that once his patients had been subjected to the AA program, i.e. their alcoholism was treated, they were avaliable to his therapy. When I came to AA i had suffered from depression, paranoia and panic attacks for years, for as long as I can remember. I have been free of those for years now. Thats my take on it =) Anders Gothenburg, Sweden IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6039. . . . . . . . . . . . The Time recovery Machine ... new play in the works From: egojames007@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/23/2009 2:48:00 AM
Bill W. meets a man from the future who has magically been sent via time machine to him prior to his interaction with Ebby, and the fellow is a big fan of Bill W's and is startled to see Bill W at his sickest, and the things that Bill thought he still had power over and the things he thought he could still manage. The Stranger actually will work with Bill about the symptoms and then work with him about the solution -- the solution from the big Book.
play done to raise money for homeless addicts and alcoholics in the Long Beach area. A non-fellowship play -- just a way to carry the message while raising money. It will be performed by 2 actors already chosen. Email me at if you're interested in writing scenes. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6040. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Defects vs shortcomings From: hdmozart . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/21/2009 4:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII GRAPEVINE ARTICLE: http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=39321&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQWp1bHkrMTk3N yZwZ\
AA Grapevine - July 1977 Vol. 34 No. 2 Word-worriers Members of our Fellowship are prone to spend hours of meeting time debating the
precise meaning of words in the Steps and Traditions. When co-founder Bill W. was asked why he said "defects of character" in Step Six and "shortcomings" in Step Seven, he replied: "I just didn't want to use the same word twice." AAHL MESSAGE 2559: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2559 * From the 1968 General Service Conference "Ask It Basket" Question: What is the difference between "Character Defects" and "Shortcomings"? Answer: A Staff Member said that she asked this question of Bill some years ago. Quite simply, he said he didn't want to use the same word twice. He intended the two terms to mean the same thing. * From the 1977 General Service Conference "Ask It Basket" Question: Could we republish the quotation from Bill W concerning the difference, or lack of difference, between "defects" and "shortcomings" in the
Steps? Answer: Some years ago, we received many letters asking the difference between these terms. Bill said he did not want to use the same word twice. [Both of the GSC documents are available on the web] * Also contains a note from 'merton' that a letter was discovered in the GSO archives written by Bill - "As if by magic the computer revealed a letter by Bill saying that the meaning was intended to be synonomous and that the different words were merely semantic for literary flow" - - - - From: "bxdennis" (bxdennis at verizon.net) I asked this question of Frank M., GSO Archivist, in the early '90's and received a written reply that is very similar to what you have written here, Lee. That Bill had said that he simply wanted to use another word and not alter the meaning.
"Ask It Basket" session at one of the General Service Conferences. Frank told me that it was a regular feature of Conferences while Bill was alive and attending to allow conference delegates to pose questions for Bill to answer.
Alcoholics Anonymous, Chapter 6, Into Action (p. 76), the seventh step prayer includes the sentence: "I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character" which was proof enough for me that shortcomings were the same as defects of character. But some doubters around here needed Bill's answer and I was delighted to get the archival information.
right now to search for the letter but perhaps someone has a record of the Ask-It Basket Q & A.
(james.scarpine at verizon.net) From page 22 of "A New Pair of Glasses": <<....and there've been a million hours spent on "What's the difference between 'shortcomings' and 'defects of character'?" There's supposed to be a difference! I asked Bill, and he said, "I don't know, I think I didn't want to end two lines right next to each other with the same words. They mean the same thing." So that's going to knock a lot of arguments out, isn't it?>> Jim S. - - - - From: "kurtzern" (kurtzern at umich.edu) I recall seeing this expression in several of Bill's letters when I examined them back in the 1970s. I am pretty sure there are precise notes in Not-God. Bill was writing to people who inquired about the apparent distinction, often proposing some very imaginative interpretations. I understand that the archives are in the process of digitizing all that material, so a query to the archivist may be helpful.
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/28/2009 5:24:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have a mid-forties vintage A.A. book with a poem inscribed in the front and I am curious about the source of the poem. It goes: We thank Thee our Father for the privilege of meeting again with men and women who have a common problem and help us to realize that thru Thine help can we hope to achieve understanding of a better way of life thru Jesus Christ
Batterson From: mrpetesplace . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2009 9:14:00 PM
however, none of the sites post the original date it was first published. I've only found dates when it was reprinted in Wally Paton's book of the same title. I believe it was a little booklet or pamphlet like "sharing", "the guidance of God", etc. I would like to find the actual date it was first printed. Thank you in advance. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6043. . . . . . . . . . . . Bill''s story: investigator for a surety company? From: Lois Stevens . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/27/2009 11:04:00 PM
which Bill W. worked for when he was c. 22 years old, right after the First World War?
employment as investigator for a surety company .... My work took me about Wall Street and little by little I became interested in the market."
others. In construction, contract surety bonds are provided to an obligee (for example, the construction project owner) by licensed surety companies that commit their assets to support the performance and financial obligations of the
principal (typically the contractor). General contractors frequently also act as
the obligee in the case of bonds provided by subcontractors. Surety bonds used
in construction include bid, performance, and payment bonds as well as supply
and maintenance bonds. Construction owners, contractors, lenders, public officials, and others involved in the construction project need to know about the companies that issue surety bonds and the role of the surety bond producer. What is a Surety Company? Most large property and casualty insurance companies have surety departments. In addition, there are some insurance companies for which surety bonds make up all
or most of their business. In either case, in order for a company to write a surety bond in the United States, it must be licensed by the insurance department of one or more states in which the surety conducts business.
likelihood of contractor default. The surety company underwriter takes an in-depth look at the contractor’s entire business operations – credit history
and financial strength, experience, equipment, work in progress, and management capability – and must be satisfied that the contractor is capable of completing the project before issuing a bond. Should the contractor experience difficulties on a project, the surety company may elect to assist the contractor to head off
default. In many cases, the owner may not even be aware of the surety’s involvement. In the unfortunate event that the owner declares the contractor in default, the
surety must investigate the claim, analyze all options, and choose a course of action. If the contractor is in a default situation, the surety may finance the original contractor or provide support to ensure project completion, arrange for a new contractor to complete the project, rebid the job, or pay the cost of completion up to the penal sum of the bond, depending on the options in the particular bond form. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6044. . . . . . . . . . . . Origins of the Seventh Step Prayer From: jaynebirch55 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/30/2009 4:00:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Did Bill W. write the Seventh Step Prayer or was it taken from an outside source? Big Book page 76 "My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen."
Barking Big Book study x IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6045. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s story: investigator for a surety company? From: Rick Benchoff . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/1/2009 3:57:00 PM
and embezzlement investigator for the US Fidelity and Guarantee Co, and got his first glimpse of Wall St.
an employment invitation from Thomas Edison but decided instead to stay around Wall St. (PIO 64, BW-RT 121-123, BW-FH 31)
Hagerstown, Maryland - - - - Original message from: Lois Stevens Does anyone know the name of the surety company which Bill W. worked for when he was c. 22 years old, right after the First World War?
employment as investigator for a surety company .... My work took me about Wall Street and little by little I became interested in the market."
of Original Manuscript? From: Lauren Lukens . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/2/2009 3:53:00 PM
the copies from my bank box so I can give a talk in a week or so and my manuscript does NOT have an apostrophe, but does have the two title pages.
have been about half way through the 50 of so she typed."
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Differences in Multilith Copies of Original Manuscript? To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 7, 2007, 3:02 PM
country looking at copies of the Original Manuscript - the multilith printing that was made and circulated for comments before our Big Book was first published in April of 1939.
versions of the title page to this printing. Although everything else in these copies 'seems' to be identical: one version has a title page reading "Alcoholics Anonymous" and the other adds an incorrect apostrophe, as in "Alcoholic's Anonymous." In the past few months, I've been able to inspect seven copies of the Original Manuscript - two of which did not have the apostrophe and five of which that did. Now here's what I found to be interesting. In all of the copies that I have so far seen without an apostrophe in the title, there are two extra "Index" pages that are not found in the copies that do have an apostrophe. Maybe there were different printings or, perhaps, just different collations and bindings done for these multilith copies - but there seems to be uniform differences between these two "issues" of the Original Manuscript.
BOARD OWN OR HAVE ACCESS TO A MULTILITH COPY OF THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT THAT THEY COULD INSPECT TO EITHER CONFIRM OR DENY THIS COINCIDENCE OF THE APOSTROPHE AND THE INDEX PAGES?
No apostrophe copies consulted: 1 in NYC AA Archive, my own (Jim Burwell) copy Apostrophe copies consulted: 2 in NYC AA Archive, Sotheby's 06/07, a copy I sold in 02/07, a private collection in CA.
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/2/2009 12:42:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I came across another prayer in a mid-40s pamphlet and am wondering if anyone can enlighten me as to its origin. God bless this meeting and the members gathered here today. Help us to make this club a haven of strength and comfort, giving to all who seek help here, the beauty and friendliness of home -- which shall be as a shield against temptation of all kinds -- and against loneliness and despair. Bless those who are going forth from this house to fight a gallant fight, to know suffering: and bless those who come here to rest. Those who must re-adjust themselves to face life once more.
dernier pour la route From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/3/2009 4:47:00 PM
executive in his 50s, on a jetty, a bag in his hand, a Swiss lake behind, staring with vacant, battered, tired eyes into the middle distance.
the
Road" (Le dernier pour la route), was being lauded by French journalists last
week after a film based on his battle with alcoholism came out to critical acclaim. "Truthful, clear and sober," said the Nouvel Observateur weekly magazine. A story that is "profoundly human", said the mass-circulation daily
Ouest-France. But the film, in which Chabalier is played by François Cluzet, has gone beyond
simple entertainment, provoking an unprecedented debate on alcoholism, long a taboo subject in France. Chabalier, 67, founder of the press agency Capa and a renowned foreign correspondent, has not drunk for seven years since the treatment for alcoholism on which the film is based. He said that there was "denial" of the problem in his native land. "Everywhere you are pushed to drink. It is a very strong social symbol. For having fun, for crying, there is alcohol. It is part of France. But the moment it goes too far, then you are cast out," he told the Observer. "People don't want to talk about it or recognise it." Though the French are often seen, and see themselves, as a nation of moderate
drinkers, certainly compared with Britons, statistics reveal similar levels of alcohol consumption and dependence. According to Inserm, a French public health research centre, five million French people have medical, psychological or social problems linked to alcohol abuse and at least two million are dependent â“ levels comparable with anywhere in Europe.
Philippe Batel, a practising psychiatrist in Paris and an author. "Here we see our own alcohol consumption as part of our culture of l'art de vivre, of our history as a wine-producing country, and as part of our treasured gastronomy. We look at drinking in Britain and see a simple desire to get drunk.
is more visible. In France, it stays hidden. But the levels are the same." The new film is also about alcoholism as an illness, not a social problem, Chabalier says. One of the reasons he wanted to tell his story was that it is "so typical". "We have an idea of the alcoholic as the smelly guy in the gutter. But I've had
a very successful life professionally. I could go to work and spend a day in a state of semi-permanent inebriation without difficulty. Alcoholics are very good at hiding things. It was only at the end that things got out of hand." His book, which sold 150,000 copies, was written from notes taken during his stay in a Swiss clinic. "I jotted things down to remember them to help me when I had left, and that became a diary which became the book. I had a huge response. People were writing to me saying that now they could talk about their illness with their wives or husbands. "Alcoholics think they can deal with their problem themselves but they can't.
They need to get help." According to the French Observatory on Drugs and Drugs Addiction, the proportion of French adults having or having had a problem with alcohol use has been stable
since the early 1990s and in terms of overall consumption the French drink around 10% more units of alcohol each year than the British. Those most at risk of alcoholism were men in managerial jobs aged between 45 and 60. One phenomenon increasingly visible in France, especially among young people, is "binge-drinking", though it is remains a relatively minor problem. Last year an attempt by the government to ban clubs and bars from offering evenings of unlimited drinks on payment of a fixed ticket price provoked a revolt from wine-makers, who said it would mean the end of wine-tasting events and accused the government of "undermining our national heritage". France, like Norway, already has a total ban on all alcohol advertising on television and billboards. Recently the issue of internet advertising has provoked new arguments.
New
York Times told readers of a congress held in Paris "to deliberate upon means to
eradicate the evil of excessive alcohol consumption in the republic". "Eminent men of letters and clergy of various denominations [were] joining hands
in a fight against the common foe," the newspaper's reporter said. The date was
24 January 1904. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6049. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How To Listen To God by John E. Batterson From: glennccc . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/4/2009 2:48:00 PM
says that: "With the roots of AA in the Oxford Group, John E. Batterson in 1939 wrote a short guide, 'How to Listen to God.'" _______________________________ http://www.gentle-stress-relief.com/stress-relief-resources.html also talks about the work: "How to Listen to God: This is a 3 page pamphlet written in the 1930's by John E. Batterson. John was a person friend of Dr. Bob, one of the co founders of Alcoholics Anonymous. This pamphlet was widely used and distributed in the early, very successful years of A.A. _______________________________
gives the same information: "This Oxford Group Pamphlet was written in the 1930's. John E. Batterson was a personal friend of Dr Bob, AA Co-Founder." _______________________________ Does anyone have any more information on the man? He is sometimes referred to as a "Chaplain." Can the statement that he was "a personal friend" of Dr. Bob's be verified? Was he part of the Akron Oxford Group?
(kurtzern at umich.edu) sent in two additional references to the work:
> > Hey buffs. I've found the text on this in my search engine at aastuff.com however, none of the sites post the original date it was first published. I've
only found dates when it was reprinted in Wally Paton's book of the same title.
I believe it was a little booklet or pamphlet like "sharing", "the guidance of God", etc. I would like to find the actual date it was first printed. > > Thank you in advance. >
Batterson From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/7/2009 6:51:00 PM
August, 1934 there was a Oxford Group program in Sandusky, Ohio, about 60 miles west of Cleveland. One of the speakers was "John Batterson of Delaware, college student." Actually he seems to have grown up in Ohio (not sure about this), so maybe he was in school in Delaware. Several of the other speakers were from Akron. So it certainly makes sense that he would have been a friend of Dr. Bob.
the Methodist church in Middletown, New York. In 1948 he was occasionally preaching at the Union Protestant church in Herald Harbor, Maryland, but his primary position was Chaplain at Fort Meade. As Second Army Chaplain, Major John E. Batterson spoke at a training conference for chaplains in the Army Reserve and National Guard, in Charleston West Virginia in April 1950.
- - - - Message 6049 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6049 Re: How To Listen To God by John E. Batterson http://www.aabacktobasics.org/B2BArticles.html says that: "With the roots of AA in the Oxford Group, John E. Batterson in 1939 wrote a short guide, 'How to Listen to God.'" _______________________________ http://www.gentle-stress-relief.com/stress-relief-resources.html also talks about the work: "How to Listen to God: This is a 3 page pamphlet written in the 1930's by John E. Batterson. John was a person friend of Dr. Bob, one of the co founders of Alcoholics Anonymous. This pamphlet was widely used and distributed in the early, very successful years of A.A. _______________________________
gives the same information: "This Oxford Group Pamphlet was written in the 1930's. John E. Batterson was a personal friend of Dr Bob, AA Co-Founder." _______________________________ Does anyone have any more information on the man? He is sometimes referred to as a "Chaplain." Can the statement that he was "a personal friend" of Dr. Bob's be verified? Was he part of the Akron Oxford Group?
Prayer
From: buck030303 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/4/2009 7:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Can anyone tell me the history of holding hands at the end of the meetings during the Lord's Prayer? I have heard it was practiced in the beginning of AA and also that it evolved from 70's rehabs?
opinions about this practice and I have heard many different "origins"...
holding hands From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/11/2009 6:46:00 PM
the old messages on this topic back up on the Message Board.
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:53pm Subject: RE: The Lord's Prayer, Or Not - Part 1 of 2
The Lord's Prayer April 14, 1959 Dear Russ, Am right sorry for my delay in answering. Lois and I were a long time out of the country and this was followed by an attack of the marathon type of flu that has been around here in New York. We are okay now, however, but I did want to explain my delay. Now about the business of adding the Lord's Prayer to each A.A. meeting. This practice probably came from the Oxford Groups who were influential in the early days of AA. You have probably noted in AA Comes of Age what the connection of these people in AA really was. I think saying the Lord's Prayer was a custom of theirs following the close of each meeting. Therefore it quite easily got shifted into a general custom among us. Of course there will always be those who seem to be offended by the introduction of any prayer whatever into an ordinary AA gathering. Also, it is sometimes complained that the Lord's Prayer is a Christian document. Nevertheless this Prayer is of such widespread use and recognition that the arguments of its Christian origin seems to be a little farfetched. It is also true that most AAs believe in some kind of God and that communication and strength is obtainable through His grace. Since this is the general consensus it seems only right that at least the Serenity Prayer and the Lord's Prayer be used in connection with our meetings. It does not seem necessary to defer to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist newcomers to the extent of completely hiding our light under a bushel. However, around here, the leader of the meeting usually asks those to join him in the Lord's Prayer who feel that they would care to do so. The worst that happens to the objectors is that they have to listen to it. This is doubtless a salutary exercise in tolerance at their stage of progress.
as I recall it. Your letter made me wonder in just what connection you raise the question.
I treasure the friendship of you both. May Providence let our paths presently cross one of these days. Devotedly yours, Bill Wilson - - - - From: "ArtSheehan" Date: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:27pm Subject: RE: The Lord's Prayer, Or Not - Part 2 of 2
he now accepts a God who is All - and who loves all. When he says, 'Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name,' he deeply and humbly means it ...." Unfortunately, some members focus on who wrote the Lord's Prayer instead of its content and substance.
a "Christian" prayer, they might want to think again or do a bit of research. Compared to the Lord's Prayer, the Serenity Prayer is just as, actually more, "Christian" in its full version (we only say the first part): "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.
at a time. Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace. Taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it. Trusting that You will make all things right if I surrender to Your will. So that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with You in the next." Some unfortunately alter the wording of the prayer from "as Jesus did" to "as He did". References to so-called "Christian" prayers appear throughout AA literature. The term "Thy will be done" is from the Lord's Prayer (i.e. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done" from the book of Matthew). The book of James is the source of the term "Faith without works is dead."
Pg 85: "Thy will (not mine) be done" Pgs 14, 76 and 88: "Faith without works is dead"
sometimes select and memorize a few set prayers which emphasize the principles we have been discussing. There are many helpful books also. Suggestions about these may be obtained from one's priest, minister, or rabbi. Be quick to see where religious people are right. Make use of what they offer." 12&12 References: Pg 32: "Thy will be done" Pgs 41, 102, 103: "Thy will, not mine, be done" The 12&12 and AA Comes of Age also contain the so-called "11th Step Prayer." Its actual title is the "Peace Prayer of Saint Francis" (a Christian Saint). It was Bill W's favorite prayer. However, St Francis didn't write it (according to Franciscan web site). But it is a beautiful [and in its origins a Christian] prayer.
Clergy Conference on Alcoholism "... Every thoughtful AA realizes that the divine grace, which has always flowed through the Church, is the ultimate foundation on which AA rests. Our spiritual origins are Christian."
would be serious indeed. But, as I have already indicated, Alcoholics Anonymous cannot in the least be regarded as a new religion. Our Twelve Steps have no theological content, except that which speaks of "God as we understand Him." This means that each individual AA member may define God according to whatever faith or creed he may have. Therefore there isn't the slightest interference with the religious views of any of our membership. The rest of the Twelve Steps define moral attitudes and helpful practices, all of them precisely Christian in character. Therefore, as far as they go, the Steps are good Christianity; indeed they are good Catholicism, something which Catholic writers have affirmed more than once."
with the Serenity Prayer and close with the Lord's Prayer"
end with the recitation of the Lord's Prayer" 1975: "convention meetings will open with the Serenity Prayer and close with the Lord's Prayer"
conducted by AA members, who determine the format of their meetings. [Pg 19] many meetings close with members reciting the Lord's Prayer or the Serenity Prayer."
in Conference-approved literature and meetings do not in any way imply affiliation with, or endorsement of, any religion. Cheers Arthur
From Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) When the AA people met at Dr. Bob and Anne's house, they finished by reciting the Lord's Prayer. See Doctor Bob and the Good Oldtimers pp. 141 and 148, also 261 (Clarence Snyder's AA meetings in Cleveland) and 183.
on the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), since the Lord's Prayer is taken from the middle of that work (Matthew 6:9-13). - - - - Message #2247 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2247 From Jim Blair (jblair@videotron.ca) The question of holding hands I have looked into and it appears that at the International in Toronto in 1965, the attendees were asked to hold hands and join together as the "Responsibility Declaration" was read for the first time. Older members seen to recollect that "hand holding" grew out of the Toronto experience. - - - - Message #2248 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2248 From "Robert Stonebraker"
(rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com) The "Lord's Prayer" carried over from the Oxford Group and was used at the first AA meeting that Clarence Snyder started at Abby Golrick's home; 2345 Stillman Rd, Cleveland Hts., Ohio, on May 11th, 1939. For verification please read page 261 of "Dr. Bob And The Good old Timers." - - - - Message #2250 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2250 "Bruce Lallier" (brucelallier at zoominternet.net) I first remember the holding of hands from the early to mid 70's in Connecticut. Message #2257 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2257 From "Robert Stonebraker"
(rstonebraker212 at insightbb.com) I was living in Southern California [in] 1975 and the custom of holding hands was then prevalent at most groups. However, in 1978, I moved to a mid-sized town, Richmond, Indiana, and the practice was not yet in vogue. But by the early 1980s most of the groups had begun holding hands. Of course, here I am not talking about the Responsibility Declaration, but the Lord's Prayer.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2589 From: "Mel Barger" (melb at accesstoledo.com) I would say that [holding hands while reciting the Lord's Prayer] began in the mid to late 1970s and just seemed to spread throughout AA. But there are still some stalwarts who stand apart [when reciting the prayer] rather than hold hands, and this is their right. Mel Barger [Note from moderator: Mel's personal experience with the AA program goes back to 1950, and he has also done a good deal of research on AA history going back even earlier, to the first beginnings of the movement.]
Batterson From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/10/2009 6:20:00 PM
in this case is not the state, but a small city (33,700 pop.) about twenty miles north of Columbus, Ohio. At 17:51 10/7/2009, corafinch wrote: >I found him in some newspaper articles. In >August, 1934 there was a Oxford Group program >in Sandusky, Ohio, about 60 miles west of >Cleveland. One of the speakers was "John >Batterson of Delaware, college student." >Actually he seems to have grown up in Ohio >(not sure about this), so maybe he was in >school in Delaware. Several of the other >speakers were from Akron.
(cometkazie1 at cox.net) I would note that there is a Delaware, Ohio located not too distant from Sandusky, about 85 mi, and there is a college there, Ohio Wesleyan Unversity, where my brother has taught for several decades.
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) Delaware is Delaware, Ohio, where John Edward Batterson (1910-1991) attended Ohio Wesleyan University (Class of 1935) in preparation for the ministry. He graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Engineering from the Ohio State University in Columbus in 1933 (editor of the OSU Engineer), was involved in aviation engineering before entering the ministry, was Chaplain (I think as Lt. Col.) at Fort Huachuca [Arizona] in 1956 (his SS card was from Arizona) and died at Huntsville, Alabama. I can find no particular Akron connection up to 1935 but I don't know where he was between 1935 and 1940.
++++Message 6054. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Holding hands during the Lord''s Prayer
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/11/2009 9:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Jim Blair, Jared Lobdell, Bob Stonebraker, Sherry Hartsell, and Ben Humphreys Holding hands during a prayer started at the AA International in Toronto in 1965, when Bill Wilson was still around (he died in 1971), and the practice seems to have been further popularized after it was done at the AA International in Denver in 1975. So fundamentally this practice of holding hands seems to have come straight from AA headquarters, from the New York GSO itself.
message and in Message #6052, say that they never saw it done in ordinary local AA meetings until the early to mid 1970's, and that it only started to become a common practice over the course of the 1980's. Glenn C., Moderator, AAHistoryLovers - - - - From Jim Blair (jblair@videotron.ca) in Message #2247 (repeated in Message #6052)
into and it appears that at the International in Toronto in 1965, the attendees were asked to hold hands and join together as the "Responsibility Declaration" was read for the first time. Older members seen to recollect that "hand holding" grew out of the Toronto experience. - - - - From: "J. Lobdell" (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) I can't say where it originated but there is significant anecdotal evidence that it was brought back to many groups in many areas from the Denver International Convention (1975).
(rstonebraker212 at comcast.net) The founding group in Richmond, Indiana, began in 1946. They never held hands till the mid-1980s, although some of the other Richmond groups started doing so in the early 1980s.
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