Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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around and combat my alcoholism, but there was no sincerity in my heart. was only doing it for my mother and to please other people; it wasn't for myself. When I was released I went back to the old people, places, and things that caused me to pay so much. I still viewed the drinking life as being fun. I was reincarcerated again at the age of twenty. I've been here now for sixteen months. This time I've had an opportunity to sit and take a personal inventory of my life. I came to the conclusion that I want to change and need to change if I am to live. I was never more serious about anything in my life. I've started attending AA meetings and substance abuse meetings, and reading my Big Book every day.
AA Grapevine, September 1997 from an article titled "Reintroduced To Myself" by Jody B., New Bern, North Carolina The seed of AA was there, and on mornings when I hurt physically and didn't remember the night before, I'd wonder: should I give AA a fair shot? For six months I'd pull a few days together, then celebrate with a drink. I really felt as though I was going crazy. I was afraid to believe in a higher power and I continued downhill, never remembering the night before, still going to AA while comparing my way out. I was constitutionally incapable of being honest. The law brought me to my bottom and I decided to give AA an honest try. At twenty-three months sober, I had changed people, places, and things, gotten a sponsor, and worked Steps One through Five. I was doing the things suggested but I still felt alone and didn't know myself.
experience I just want to find out where or how it got into the rooms of AA. It's not in the Big Book. I don't think it's in any of AA's other literature or textbooks, either, but I can't say that with complete authority -- yet. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and things" come from? Hugs for the trudge. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82
++++Message 5820. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 8:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just to update some research on this question. I looked up the suggested references given here so far, for Al-anon and NA. I do not find that this concept "powerless over people places and things" is founded in either of those two 12-step programs referred to here in the answers given so far. Certainly not Al-anon, and certainly not NA. Those references have to do with something else.
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permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
> experience > > I just want to find out where or how it got into the rooms of AA. > > It's not in the Big Book. I don't think it's in any of AA's other > literature or textbooks, either, but I can't say that with complete > authority -- yet. > > Thanks. > > Hugs for the trudge > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82
> > If it appears I was all thumbs when I wrote this, I was! Sent from > my iPhone. > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 3:20 PM, James Flynn > >> The notion that we are "powerless over people places and things" >> comes directly from Al-Anon and has nothing to do with avoiding >> anything. It is all about acceptance of other people's, things or >> situations as autonomous. A similiar concept promoted by Al-Anon is >> known as "the three C's." That is I didn't cause it, I can't >> control it and I can't cure it. It is the conclusion that one >> reaches when one aknowledges their limitations and finally >> understands that certain things have to be left in God's hands. >> You could say it is the realization that I am not God and that >> pretending otherwise is just inviting another lesson in futility. >> Basically it's about letting GO and letting God, rather than >> playing God. >> >> Jim F. >> >> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com >> wrote: >> >> >> From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com >> Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" >> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM >> >>
>> of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. >> It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the >> AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the >> three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing >> realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no >> longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." >> The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and >> converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over >> people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid >> people, places and things." >> The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic >> literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to >> the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any >> scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is >> doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big >> Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page >> 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been >> given the power to help others." >> Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. >> The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, >> The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE >> powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further >> indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the >> Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help >> others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll >> always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. >> love+service >> John Lee >> Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle >> wrote: >> >> From: Jon Markle >> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" >> To: "AAHistoryLovers" >> Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM >> >> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and >> things" come from? >> >> Hugs for the trudge. >> >> Jon (Raleigh) >> 9/9/82
From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 1:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am looking for a picture of Bill and Ebby lying on the grass. I remember seeing this and can't seem to remember where. can someone give me a steer? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5822. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: "People places things" From: Robert Stonebraker . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 5:50:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page Dr. Paul's quote from page 417. The answer: The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two personal experiences." The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions. Bob S. www.4dgroups.org ================================================================= From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"
place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?
wrote:
> > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5823. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 6:27:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The phrase, "powerless over people, places and things" is not in the ODATT . . . at least I can't find it in my copy. Can you site the page for me, if you found such reference . . .
with control issues and detachment skills in Al-anon as applied to making someone else stop drinking -- which converts to "powerless over alcohol", but has nothing or little to do with the phrase I'm trying to trace, "Powerless over people places and things." That specific phrase and concept is what I am attempting to trace, for origin and how it got accepted as "gospel" in AA meetings.
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permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
> ODATT Daily Meditation Book. It does not come from the much > maligned treatment industry! > > Sincerely, Jim F. > > -
++++Message 5824. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 7:12:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII My . . . thanks for all that hard work. Unfortunately, concrete evidence of the phrase "powerless over people places and things" is still very illusive. The phrase / concept I'm trying to trace is *POWERLESS OVER PEOPLE PLACES AND THINGS" . . . not just the words/phrase, "people places and things". There's a big difference.
reference empowerment . . . not powerlessness . . . and the emphasis is on "over alcohol" with regard to "powerlessness" . . .
April 1994, the writer seems to contradict herself . . . as being powerless over people places and things, then through prayer, becoming empowered . . . I guess the whole article there would clarify. But, as this quote stands, it's a weak argument at best. More indicative of the error of quoting such a thing in an AA meeting as "gospel". It has no reference to any AA material at all. Just that one person's opinion which upon thoughtful reflection, is obviously confused. The quote I really latched on to, as one might suspect > "Then I launched into a dissertation on > powerlessness. I really couldn't wait to get to this. I mentioned > how we > were powerless over people, places, and things. On and on I went, > giving > various examples — this was a full-blown, definitely AA-grounded, > exposition. I waited for Vince to tell me how wonderfully I'd mastered > the Step. I was ready to swell with pride. Then, in a soft voice he > said: "It says 'powerless over alcohol.' "
contributors here that it comes out of therapy or treatment. I dispute that claim as unfounded, because I am retired from that field and it is not a concept that I would suggest to any client. Far from the opposite, in fact.
referenced materials that even the notion that it's from Al-anon, is about as factual as saying it's from AA.
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permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
> here are a few examples of this phrase that I have run across. All but > the first are from the AA Grapevine > I'll paste the whole paragraph [not whole article though] so the > phrase > can be seen in the context it was used. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----\ ----------------------- > > from "As Bill Sees It" [page/reading 251] > "Are you really placing recovery first, or are you making it > contingent > upon other people, places, or circumstances? You may find it ever so > much better to face the music right where you are now, and, with the > help of the A.A. program, win through. Before you make a decision, > weigh
> it in these terms." > > LETTER, 1949 > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, August 1971 > from article titled "Now I Want Myself" by F.H., Chicago, Ill. > > AA has given me keen insight into my limitations, and it enables me > each > day to remove myself from people, places, and things that tend to > threaten my sobriety. Since being in AA, I have gained more friends > than
> I could ever have imagined, friends who sincerely care about me and my > welfare. I have one friend in particular, whom I call my guardian > angel. > Recently, I was in an automobile accident that almost cost me the > use of > my writing hand, and she encouraged me to write. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, June 1978 > from a letter by D. H. from San Francisco, Calif.: > > When are we going to learn to be responsible for our own feelings? > Let's > grow up and stop blaming "people, places, and things" for our > feelings. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, July 1981 > from an article titled "Steps to Awareness" by T.J., Houston, Tex. > > The First Step gave me my first step in identity. I had always looked > outside myself — for my name, for the answer to all my needs. I looked > to people, places, and things and, of course, to booze. Ironically, > the > alcohol I used to find answers gave me the first step in identity — > I am > an alcoholic. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, September 1981 > from an article titled "Action Begins at Home" by C.A., Houston, Tex. > > The thought of spending hours and hours with me, just me, threw me > into > a terrifying, gut-wrenching panic. Alone within my four walls, I > finally > had to face the fact that in all those months of staying busy, I had > taken no real action at all. I had completed tasks, even AA tasks > like a
> Fourth and Fifth Step and a daily Tenth Step, but I had done them as a > child does homework to avoid getting in trouble with his teacher at > school. I finally realized that I had used constant activity, the > distraction of people, places, and things, to avoid bumping into > myself. > > ---------------------- > Grapevine, February 1983 > from an article titled "Acceptance" by E.B., Dover, Del. > > intro states: > She finally stopped blaming people, places, and things for her > drinking > > and in the article: > Only this time, I realized I was drinking because I wanted to and not > because of any other people, places, or things. I could finally see > the > truth of what I had been told so many times: We get drunk because we > take that first drink, not for any other reason. My emotions finally > caught up with my intellect, and the two merged for a short time. > > ---------------------- > Grapevine, July 1984 > from an article titled "Sobriety Is an Inside Job" by L.P., > Huntsville, Tex. > > After several months in prison, my attitude toward people, places, > things, and ideas was still very poor a lot of times. I hid this as > best
> I could. The AA program was getting into a lot of areas of my life — > what a revelation! Now another action step was required, because I had > become more conscious of yet another character defect after these few > months of youthful sobriety. > > ---------------------- > Grapevine, March 1988 > from a letter by E. B. of Wentzville, Mo.: > > As I read the November issue on sponsorship, I felt the usual > reactions > which I feel when I read the Grapevine: I agree with this person, this > person is way off base, but I guess it works for them, etc. However, > my
> overall feeling was one of indifference. I didn't have a lot of > interest > in an issue on sponsorship because there was no direct connection to > my
> program. After all, I had gone by the book. Shortly after treatment I > got a sponsor who helped me through the Steps and helped me keep in > balance when people, places, and things started to become my higher > power. I always appreciated him very much and didn't take him for > granted. We saw each other once a week and I called him once a week. > On
> the other side of the coin my few attempts at sponsorship were > disappointing. As you can see, the issue didn't apply to me since my > little world was all neat and tidy. Then I got a phone call from a > friend in the Fellowship last Saturday. My sponsor had died suddenly > of > a heart attack. I had never in my life had to deal with such a loss. > The > immediate feeling of aloneness was hard to bear. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, May 1989 > from an article titled "Bingo Card of Life" by Joseph O., Meade, Md. > > I was close to being chaptered out of the Army with a bad conduct > discharge. I had two article fifteens, one court-martial, seventeen > days
> AWOL, thirty days' stockade time, and barely six months in the Army. > Never mind the countless jobs I'd lost on the outside and my two > alcohol-related civilian convictions. Drinking wasn't my problem; it > was
> people, places and things. I wasn't sick — everyone else was. I wasn't > ready for the First Step. I couldn't admit my powerlessness over > alcohol > or the unmanageability in my life. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, April 1994 > from an article title "Time for Transition" by Annemarie M., > Raynham, Mass. > > I'm in an entirely new professional setting now. It has not been > dull. I > don't drink and I go to AA meetings. I'm even more aware of just how > powerless I am over other people, places, and things. Change has > challenged me to turn more than ever to my home group, my sponsor, my > service work in AA, my sponsees, the Steps, Traditions, and > Concepts. To > the God of my understanding, asking only for knowledge of his will for > me . . . and the power to carry that out. > > ---------------------- > AA Grapevine, December 1995 > from an article titled "Singleness of Purpose" by Lynn J., Saint > John, N.B. > > When I first came into the program, I didn't understand anything about Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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