Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text. "People" isn't the topic
either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places things" in the
basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature of NA or Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people places and things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although that nugget
is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll hear the chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book either [the one with the black cover and ribbon]. Christ never said, "Keep coming back." He said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give." In AA we carry the message to those who still suffer. Pass it on. Pittsburgh --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker wrote:
Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things" To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM
Dr. Paul's quote from page 417. The answer: The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two personal experiences. " The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions. Bob S. www.4dgroups. org ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======== From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"
place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?
...>
>
> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/
2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/26/2009 12:50:00 PM
head
of Greystone in 1939. Regards --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Carroll" wrote:
> > The AA member was Hank Parhurst - he was living in Montclair NJ at the time. >
> > > Prominent psychiatrist was Dr Howard of Montclair, NJ > > > > Second psychiatrist was Dr Russell E. Blaisdell, Rockland State Hospital > near Orangeburg NY. > >
> My interpretation of ".the doctor agreed to a test among his patients." is > not that he had a test, per se, but rather, to test this program, which our > friend (Hank) had described. > > > > > > Lee Carroll, CPA > > (805) 938-1981 > >
> IRS Circular 230 Tax Advice Disclaimer: As required by U.S. Treasury > Regulations governing tax practice, you are hereby advised that, if any > advice concerning one or more U.S. Federal tax issues is contained in this > communication (including any attachments), such advice is not intended or > written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding > penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or > recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. > > > > _____
> > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rickcard47 > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:21 AM > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, > and the hospitals? > >
> > > > > > I am asuming that the large community is NY, but was wondering who the AA > member was, and what the test was that "that the doctor agreed to a test > among his patients". Also it mentions 2 psychiatrists, any ideas? And what > was the hospital and clinic? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
++++Message 5834. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Re: Pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/27/2009 10:33:00 AM
or less -- but there's the possibility (given the "Dr. Howard") that it might be Dr. Howard W. S. Potter (1892-1984), of New York (Letchworth Village), a native-born Jerseyan (Elizabeth, I think) -- tho' I don't know where he was living in 1939. Perhaps someone could check the MS of Howard Potter's reminiscences in the Columbia Medical Library.
> From: jax760@yahoo.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:50:40 +0000 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? > > Dr. "Howard" is thought to be an alias. He may have been Dr. Marcus Curry, head of Greystone in 1939. > > Regards > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Carroll" wrote: > >
> > The AA member was Hank Parhurst - he was living in Montclair NJ at the time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > Prominent psychiatrist was Dr Howard of Montclair, NJ > >
> > > >
> > Second psychiatrist was Dr Russell E. Blaisdell, Rockland State Hospital > > near Orangeburg NY. > > > >
> > > > My interpretation of ".the doctor agreed to a test among his patients." is > > not that he had a test, per se, but rather, to test this program, which our > > friend (Hank) had described. > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lee Carroll, CPA > > > > (805) 938-1981 > > > >
> > > > IRS Circular 230 Tax Advice Disclaimer: As required by U.S. Treasury > > Regulations governing tax practice, you are hereby advised that, if any > > advice concerning one or more U.S. Federal tax issues is contained in this > > communication (including any attachments), such advice is not intended or > > written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding > > penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or > > recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. > >
> > > >
> > _____ > >
> > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rickcard47 > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:21 AM > > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, > > and the hospitals? > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am asuming that the large community is NY, but was wondering who the AA > > member was, and what the test was that "that the doctor agreed to a test > > among his patients". Also it mentions 2 psychiatrists, any ideas? And what
> > was the hospital and clinic? > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_St\
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5835. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: RE: "Powerless over people places things" From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/27/2009 11:14:00 AM
know (1550?) of the phrase in English -- said, by a former paymaster of the King's forces at Calais who had embezzled funds (possibly for drinking), but been converted by Hugh Latimer and made amends and restitution, on seeing another embezzler of the King's funds being taken away to execution. There is no particular question of predestination, nor is the phrase peculiar to alcoholics -- in fact it was popularized long before the word "alcoholic" existed. It refers quite simply to the fact that we (whoever we may be) don't recover (from any sin or sickness) by our own unaided efforts -- and I'm not sure that should be contentious in A.A., or elsewhere. > To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com > From: jennylaurie1@hotmail.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:46:39 +0000 > Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things" > >
establishing "AA" hospitals - about the only one to survive was the decision to publish the Big Book. Early members were aware that the message could be diluted, distorted and misrepresented when passed on orally. The slogans which
adorn the walls at so many AA meetings are not Conference-approved; though three
of them appear at the end of chapter nine in the Big Book, viz: First Things First; Live and Let Live; Easy Does It. One slogan - There but for the grace of God - is contentious, suggesting as it does that some alcoholics are chosen for salvation and others condemned. Likewise, the Serenity Prayer is not Conference-approved, though undoubtedly an established part of our oral tradition. So, unless tested by the Fellowship's group conscience as expressed at Conference, expressions heard at meetings, like e.g. Keep it simple stupid, should be taken with a pinch of salt. Some are more helpful than others; some are contrary to our tradition, e.g. "It (addiction) is all the same illness." > > Laurie A. > > > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: jdf10487@yahoo.com > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things" > > > > > > > > AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and common expressions. > > Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others can't. Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part of authentic AA History as the coffee pot. AA is as AA does, and AA does use sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will. > > Sincerely, Jim F. > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com > > From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things" > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM > > The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon. The topic is not "people, places and things." According to the Unofficial Big Book Search Engine, the word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text. "People" isn't the topic either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places things" in the basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature of NA or Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people places and things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although
that nugget is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll
hear the chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book either [the one with the black cover and ribbon]. Christ never said, "Keep coming back." He > said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give." In AA we carry the message to those who still suffer. > Pass it on. > John Lee > Pittsburgh > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker wrote: > > From: Robert Stonebraker > Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things" > To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM > > The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page > Dr. Paul's quote from page 417. > > The answer: > > The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the > clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions > are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two > personal experiences. " > > The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions. > > Bob S.
> > www.4dgroups. org > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ======== > > From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com > [mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM > To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things" > > What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, > place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, > and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or > situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." > ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No? > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com > ...>
> wrote: > >
> > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > > things" come from? > > > > Hugs for the trudge. > > > > Jon (Raleigh) > > 9/9/82 > >
> > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > > Williams) > > > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > >
> > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get the best of MSN on your mobile > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_St\
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5836. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Pg 163 -Name, Place & Date Reference From: Ron Sessions . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/27/2009 11:53:00 AM
Thanks for the link to the "Big Book Name, Place, & Date References" â“ I recently wondered if Jim and Fred were based on real individuals â“ this reference gave some names I can track down. On another note â“ I noticed an error that might bear correction. I donât know who wrote the reference, so I am putting this into the ether. Listed under âWe Agnosticsâ (Page 56), the âapproached by an alcoholicâ is linked to Bill Wilson, but based on Fitzâs story (Our Southern Friend), the man who made this approach was another patient in Townâs Hospital. After this
approach was made Fitz had the âwho are you to say there is no Godâ experience. The following day he met some of the folks that had gotten free (assumedly Bill was one of them). Nancy Oâs bio of Fitz states essentially the same thing. Iâm interested in finding out who the patient was, and what happened to him. I wonder at the wording applied to this individual, being described as âan alcoholic who had KNOWN a spiritual experienceâ not âan alcoholic who HAD a
spiritual experienceâ â“ as if to infer the man that made the approach
didnât benefit from the info he transmitted to Fitz. Â This may simply be a
matter of style and not substance. In any case I would like any information other members might have about this man. Thanks so much, Ron --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Bill Lash From: Bill Lash Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals? To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:04 AM For all the "Big Book Name, Place, & Date References" please go to: http://www.justlove audio.com/ resources/ Assorted/ Big_Book_ Name_and_ Date_References.pdf Just Love, Barefoot Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5837. . . . . . . . . . . . Houston S. From: boydpickard . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/28/2009 12:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Houston S. found AA in Montgomerty, Alabama in June 1944. He helped a man named
Harry, who also had a drug problem, get sober. Through this interaction Houston
was convenced that 12 Tweleve Steps could be applied to drug addiction as well.
Houston contacted Dr.Vogel of the US Public Hospital in Lexington Kentucky ( specializing in drug addiction)and Dr. Vogel allowed Houston start an Addicts Anonymous Meeting using a modified version of the 12 steps of AA. Houston remained a loyal supportor attending meetings nearly week until 1963 when he turned his duties over to Sterling S. another AA member. Does anyone know this story and can anyone help me track down Houston's last name. Some people say Houston Sewell and some say Houston Smith. Any help would be appreciated.
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/28/2009 4:21:00 PM Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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