Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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over far in the direction of religious comparison, philosophy and interpretation, when by firm long standing tradition we A.A.'s had always left
such questions strictly to the chosen faith of each individual. "One member rose with a word of caution. [Apparently he was referring to Fr. Pfau.] As I heard him, I thought, 'What a fortunate occurrence.' How well we shall always remember that A.A. is never to be thought of as a religion. How firmly we shall insist that A.A. membership cannot depend upon any particular belief whatever; that our twelve steps contain no article of religious faith except faith in God -- as each of us understands Him. How carefully we shall henceforth avoid any situation which could possibly lead us to debate matters of personal religious belief." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6751. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Can anyone tell me a little more history about Al S. From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/26/2010 9:57:00 PM
I'm happy to help you in your search of knowledge. It's refreshing to see a post on AAHL that isn't already answered. You may want to look into the AA grapevine web site and search under Al S. As the Grapevine editor after Tom Y. He came into AA in March 1944.He called the New York office for help and went to the 24th street clubhouse that evening. He helped to reform the Manhattan Group, another clubhouse on 41st St. He helped to form and
was secretary and director of the N. Y. Intergroup. My friend Nell Wing wrote several pages on Al. In her book Grateful to have been there, you can read pages 87 thru the top of page 90. He was a advertising and film man from New York. Within four and one half years he was editor of the Grapevine.(during the period of Anne and Bob's death,the 1st International Convention, and the 1st General Service Conference). He wrote the "Declaration of Responsibility." He was director of AA Publishing(before it was AAWS),Director of the Grapevine,and a trustee on the General Service Board. He was a close friend to Bill and Lois. Lois said that He and Bill"were buddies." He also knew Dr Bob and accompanied him on his trip back to Akron from the 1950 Cleveland Convention.. I'm sure that Mitchell K,a long time friend of Nell's,and Mel B, who worked in New York, could tell you more about the man.He was A full time 12 stepper and sponsor who went to Knickerbocker daily to check up on the place and make sure things ran smoothly there.He and another member had talked
them into opening an AA ward run by AA's. The first of its kind in NY. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, PA U.S.A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6752. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W. and Father Ralph Pfau From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/26/2010 10:07:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII It may be interesting to note that Father John Doe who had threatened to disrupt
the St. Louis Convention brought with him to the convention a citation from the
Pope to Bill Wilson which hangs at Stepping Stones. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, PA. U.S.A.
home
From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/25/2010 6:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all, I'm hoping someone on AAHL can help me with this question. In Marty M's story, "Woman Suffer Too", on page 206 (fourth edition) she says: "There is another meaning for the Hebrew word that in the King James Version of the Bible is translated 'salvation.' It is: 'to come home.' I had found my salvation. I wasn't alone anymore."
where in the Bible this translation is, or, is there some Hebrew text where salvation and coming home are linked. I've searched and searched and so far haven't come up with anything. Can someone help? Thank you, Mike Margetis Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6754. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Freemasonry and A.A. From: George Cleveland . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 3:43:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Don't know about freemasonry, but the New Hampshire Liquor Commission has a logo that comes pretty darn close to ours.... I love to live in a state of irony... See upper left hand corner of their web page at http://www.nh.gov/liquor/index.shtml - - - - On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Dougbert > > Hi Group, > > I continue to see the esoteric references to Freemasonry throughout A.A. > literature, including the fact that our A.A. logo is directly taken from > Scottish Rite symbology. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6755. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Marty M. and salvation as coming home
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 4:20:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mike, I went to my copy of Robert Young's "Analytical Concordance to the Holy Bible"
8th edit., published in 1939. This is one of the most useful tools I have ever
found for tracking down words from the King James Version of the Bible and the
original Hebrew and Greek words which laid behind them. The three Hebrew words which are translated over and over again in the KJV as "salvation" are yeshu'ah (63 times), teshu'ah (17 times), and yesha' (32 times). But these words refer to things like salvation, deliverance, safety, health, help, welfare, and victory. They never, as far as I can see, refer to "coming
home" or anything even remotely like that. But if you go back the other way, and look for places where the KJV translates a Hebrew word using the word "home" as part of the translation, you come up with
something interesting. The ancient Hebrew verb shub (modern Israeli pronunciation shuv) basically means to turn, turn back, or return. But shub also means TO REPENT, to turn your will and your life back over once
again to the care of G-d, and return to your life among the people who follow
G-d's Torah, that is, the law and way of life described in the five books of his
servant Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). The commandments given there include the Ten Commandments and the Two Great Commandments: (1) to love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and all your soul and all your might, and (2) to love your neighbor as yourself. And in five places in the King James Version of the Bible, the word shub is associated with the idea of returning home or going back home again: the word shub is translated as "to bring home" or "fetch home" in Judges 11:9, Ruth 1:21, 2 Samuel 14:13, and Job 39:12, and it is translated as "to go home" in 1 Samuel 18:2.
formed from the verb shub, became the standard word for "repentance" or conversion, for turning (or returning) to the true religion. So in that sense, it is in fact used roughly in the same way that a Christian would speak of "salvation" or "being saved." So in that sense, Marty Mann was basically right. And Jesus was building on that
sense of the word teshuvah in his story of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-24), which was often referred to by early AA authors (including Richmond Walker, Father Ralph Pfau, etc.). This was the story of a young man who went and wasted
his inheritance on wine, women, and song, but finally decided to return home and
throw himself on his father's mercy -- and to his complete surprise was welcomed
back home with open arms and a full restoration to sonship. Glenn Chesnut South Bend, Indiana P.S. And in the liturgy and practices associated with the Day of Atonement, one
of the most important Jewish holy days, we see at the center the emphasis upon
making amends and making restitution for any harm we did to other people in the
past. In the careful and systematic way that the 8th and 9th steps are carried
out in modern A.A. -- remember that all Frank Buchman (the founder of the Oxford
Group) did was write a few letters of apology for a single situation -- we see
something that is far more characteristic of the best Jewish spirituality than
of most Christian practice. I mention this because I have heard Jewish members
complain on occasion that A.A. seems "too Christian" in too many places. But this to me is not one of them -- in its understanding of teshuvah and atonement, it seems to me that A.A. reconnected with the teaching of the Hebrew Bible in a direct way that was more Jewish than Christian, and that Mrs. Marty Mann's instincts were right on target. - - - - Original message from Mike Margetis In Marty M's story, "Woman Suffer Too," on page 206 (fourth edition) she says:
of the Bible is translated 'salvation.' It is: 'to come home.' I had found my salvation. I wasn't aloneanymore." I often quote this when speaking, but I'm sometimes asked if I know where in the
Bible this translation is, or, is there some Hebrew text where salvation and coming home are linked. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6756. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Freemasonry and A.A. -- and the New Hampshire state liquor commission From: Kevin Short . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 5:08:00 PM
clubhouse into a state liquor store! -----Original Message----- From: George Cleveland Don't know about freemasonry, but the New Hampshire Liquor Commission has a logo
that comes pretty darn close to ours.... I love to live in a state of irony... See upper left hand corner of their web page at http://www.nh.gov/liquor/index.shtml IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6757. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Was Bill W. actually a stock broker?
From: LES COLE . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 4:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Tommy: As I understand, Bill's connection with Wall Street was that he worked under and
for Frank Shaw. I have seen no record that Bill sought, nor had, privileges to work on the "floor" or claimed to be a "broker." Les C IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6758. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 2010 Convention -- new countries represented? From: Maria Orozco . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 7:55:00 AM
the International Convention. Or was it mentioned? Thanks.
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 6:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The online archives is now available online for William L. White, author of the
classical work "Slaying the Dragon" (on the history of the treatment of alcoholism and drug addiction in the United States) and numerous other books and articles on alcoholism and addiction. It also contains biographical material on him, etc. An enormous amount of this material is available for reading online or for downloading. http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/ Other recent books which White has co-authored include one on alcoholism among
Native Americans: > > Coyhis, D., & White, W. (2006). Alcohol problems > > in Native America: The untold story of resistance > > and recovery. Colorado Springs, CO: White Bison, Inc.
called:
> > refuge: The lessons of the New York state inebriate > > asylum. Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6761. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Can anyone tell me a little more history about Al S. From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/29/2010 9:49:00 AM
1978),
son of Emmet Fox’s Secretary, author of the Responsibility and Unity Pledges/Declarations, sometime Trustee, here is the Introduction (from pp. 11-14) to his BERT D. – Hardhat, Inebriate, Scholar (Memphis: Harbor House 1976). Although Bert’s last name is given throughout (though not in the title), in accordance with Al’s view of posthumous anonymity given in this introduction, that view has not prevailed in New York, and the last initial only is used here in this excerpt. The text of the Introduction follows: INTRODUCTION “The great use of life is to spend it for something that outlasts it.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
It is the story of a roaring alcoholic who learned to be peaceably sober. It is the story of an under-educated, hardnosed, hardhat construction foreman who learned how to teach by teaching himself how to learn. His name was Henry Berton D[----], known up and down the length of the Mississippi valley, and beyond, as Bert. This is also the story of a place Bert D[----] practically willed into existence and the parade of characters who marched through it. Harbor House was, and is, a rehabilitation house for alcoholics in Memphis, Tennessee. Today there’s a new Harbor House acquired since Bert died in 1970,
and dedicated to his memory. It’s bigger, handsomer, cleaner, nicer in every
way. You can see it from your car, perched atop a small rise just off I-240. As you leave Memphis International Airport headed into town. In this book, though, we’ll be concerned mostly with the old place. The shabby
house, the grimy little garden, the neighborhood that has long since lost its
grandeur. The house is still there, at 1369 Court Avenue. But Alcoholics no longer use it. It’s been converted with plywood panels and hanging basket partitions into a sort of shakedown rooming house for a clientele which seems to
need nor want nothing more than a place to unfold its bedrolls. There’s probably no truth at all in the stories that the ghost of Bert D[----] has sometimes been seen sitting and rocking on the front porch at 1369 Court or tending the once-well-tended roses in the side yard. These are undoubtedly the hallucinations of some of the boys who came under the spell of the old Harbor house but failed to get the full message. But one thing is known to be a fact. Every once in a while a real somebody, dressed in “relievers,” with a ten day growth of beard and the haunted “lost” look of the alcoholic, will ring the front door bell at 1369 and ask, “Where’s Bert? Tell Bert it’s Charlie and I need him.” So, if you’re apprehensive about alcoholics and have the usual preconceived notions about what an alcoholic is like – or what’s likely to happen in a house
full of them – it is suggested you hold your fire until you’re at least half way
through these pages. Dr. Carl Menninger said that if alcoholism were contagious, we’d have to declare a national emergency within the hour. But this is not to be a dissertation on drinking problems, nor a treatise on the social, moral and economic impact of alcoholism on a nation that has 15 million problem drinkers. Nor will this be a gooey story of heroics among the doomed legions. Bert D[----] was a chubby little guy with a crew cut. Strong as a bull and sometimes just as bullheaded. Not the hero type at all. What happened was that his own drinking got him into so much trouble and caused him and others so much painful
anguish that he was sort of forced to stumble over a few very fundamental truths.
There was nothing new about the truths that Bert tripped over. They’ve been
lying there all the time and people have been falling over them for centuries. Not just alcoholics, either. But other people who get themselves into non-alcoholic but equally messy living situations. The trouble has always been, for most of us, that it doesn’t help to stumble over the truth if you’re unable to pick it up. It doesn’t help an alcoholic to know why he drinks unless he has first learned how to stop drinking. It only adds to the torment. The trick, then, is not in the knowing, but in the using. It was the genius of Henry Berton D[----], in working with alcoholics, to cut through the Freudian reasons why and go, with incisive directness, to the first step of a recovery process. “If you waited until the alcoholic understood all the whys and wherefores, you’d never get started,” Bert often said. “Because the only way an alcoholic, or anyone else, can really learn certain things is by doing them. So, what we’re looking for is a little faith. Not much, just enough to make a start. He will get his understanding, not from some lecture or sermon, but from his very own experience. First hand truth, the kind that you can make a working part of your life.’ This book will attempt to tell you about these disarmingly simple super-truths and some of the delightful techniques for putting them to work in a life style
that can cope. Not just with alcoholism. But with the stress and strain of personal problems, national crises, H-bombs, nosy neighbors and crab grass. Also, with that fearsome array of inner feelings which can eat you up whether
you’re an alcoholic or not – frustrations, resentments, guilt, self-pity, fear, anxiety, envy, et al. Everything Bert D[----] was able to do with his own life and the lives of so many other people sprung, first, from the recovery principles of Alcoholics Anonymous. The AA program is not a diatribe against drinking. In fact, drinking isn’t even mentioned and the word alcohol is used only once in AA’s
famed Twelve Steps. The AA program is nothing more than those same centuries-old truths repackaged to attract the alcoholic – and as fundamental to life as breathing. Because it played such an important role in Bert D[----]‘s life, and so in this
book, it will help the reader to be sure he has no misconceptions about Alcoholics Anonymous. For, while it is one of the most universally admired movements in the free world, AA is not always properly understood. Many people
still think of it as an ongoing endurance test in which alcoholics hang onto each other for dear life, call each other up in the middle of the night, carrying on something awful in their desperate efforts to stay sober. Nothing could be further from the truth. AA thrives on peace, not desperation. Some of its members may continue to be confused. But there is very little confusion in AA itself. In fact, it is probably one of the most un-confused outfits around, in these hectic 1970’s. First of all, it is not an organization. It’s a true fellowship, with no officers, no leaders, no rules, no dues or fees. It believes in attraction rather than promotion. It has no “official” opinions. Not even about alcoholism. It doesn’t preach or lecture, not even to its own people. AA neither opposes nor endorses any causes – neither affiliates with, nor lends its name to any outside enterprise, however worthy. It tries very hard to mind its
own business. AA pays its own way. No outside contributions. None. It even limits how much any one of its own members may give. $300 per year, tops. AA not only avoids entanglements with money, but keeps itself forever non-professional. Except for a few necessary service centers, AA has no employees. All basic AA work is done by unpaid volunteers. AA’s famed anonymity is a safeguard for those who need protection from the social stigma still attached to alcoholism. But, far more importantly, AA’s anonymity is the spiritual foundation of a working philosophy in which people share with each other and help each other without petty and selfish hopes of reward or thoughts of self-glorification. No living member of AA is supposed to reveal his AA affiliation at the public level – in the press – on the air or in a book like this. The principle of non-exploitation applies to the individual as it does to the fellowship as a whole. However, upon his death, and with the family’s consent, such a revelation does
not flout AA traditions. And if there happens to be a worthwhile story to tell,
such posthumous identification may serve a useful purpose. So let it be a matter of public record that Henry Berton D[----] was, for more than twenty years, a well-known and well-loved member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Let this not be listed, as in some obituaries, merely as some creditable and honorable affiliation. He wasn’t just a lodge brother. AA had saved the man’s
life. And he, in turn and in gratitude, made himself remarkably useful to thousands of people, alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike. By his own efforts Bert converted himself into a worthy member of that noble breed who, when they’re good at their jobs, are said to affect eternity. Teachers. A somewhat unorthodox teacher to be sure. But a teacher nonetheless. His classroom was the fusty old dining room at 1369 Court and his student body, at first, was a sight to behold. But sound teaching, like truth, or a better made mousetrap, has a way of attracting people from afar. And some of the curious stayed to learn. Things they hadn’t even known they needed to know. Whether by instinct, or with divine intervention, Bert invented most of his own
teaching methods. Some were as profound as a Harvard lecture except maybe for
the grammar. Others were as elementary as kindergarten. And some of Bert’s instruction had all the subtlety of a Sherman tank on the front lawn. He read and studied like a man possessed. But he never became pedantic, as the newly informed are wont to do. He spent his time and energy just getting a man into a
learning attitude. Then he’d get behind him and push and point and madden and
insult – whatever it took to pry open minds that had been closed and locked
tight for years. To get grown men and women to be willing to re-learn what they think they already know is no easy task. And it’s even harder to get people to learn something they’re afraid to know. Very few teachers can break through such a crust of fear and apprehension. But Bert D[----} with his hairy-armed love, was able to motivate people who seemed to have no motives left. And sometimes, in his own eagerness, he’d get a little pompous. But he had a way of catching himself in mid-pomp, then grinning like a Billikin. What we’ll try to convey here is a flow of faith so simple, so natural, so almost childishly innocent, that it can easily be missed or dismissed, if it isn’t told right. Perhaps what Bert D[----] wanted his friends to understand was that life is really so profoundly simple that it goes beyond man’s comprehension – a view of life so uncomplicated that it brings us face to face
with whatever concept of God each of us may have. Al S[-------] Lake Worth, Fla
“Nostalgia” – Tape 231 Serenity Solutions Truro NS.
> CC: claus.larosse@gmail.com; Shakey1aa@aol.com; melb@accesstoledo.com; the_archivist@excite.com; jim.myers56@yahoo.com > From: Shakey1aa@aol.com > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:57:33 -0400 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Can anyone tell me a little more history about Al S.
> > Claus,
> I'm happy to help you in your search of knowledge. It's refreshing to > see a post on AAHL that isn't already answered. You may want to look into > the AA grapevine web site and search under Al S. As the Grapevine editor > after Tom Y. He came into AA in March 1944.He called the New York office for > help and went to the 24th street clubhouse that evening. He helped to > reform the Manhattan Group, another clubhouse on 41st St. He helped to form
and > was secretary and director of the N. Y. Intergroup. My friend Nell Wing > wrote several pages on Al. In her book Grateful to have been there, you can
> read pages 87 thru the top of page 90. He was a advertising and film man > from New York. Within four and one half years he was editor of the > Grapevine.(during the period of Anne and Bob's death,the 1st International Convention, > and the 1st General Service Conference). He wrote the "Declaration of > Responsibility." He was director of AA Publishing(before it was AAWS),Director > of the Grapevine,and a trustee on the General Service Board. He was a close > friend to Bill and Lois. Lois said that He and Bill"were buddies." He also > knew Dr Bob and accompanied him on his trip back to Akron from the 1950 > Cleveland Convention.. > I'm sure that Mitchell K,a long time friend of Nell's,and Mel B, who > worked in New York, could tell you more about the man.He was A full time 12 > stepper and sponsor who went to Knickerbocker daily to check up on the > place and make sure things ran smoothly there.He and another member had talked
> them into opening an AA ward run by AA's. The first of its kind in NY. > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz > Phila, PA U.S.A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6762. . . . . . . . . . . . International convention: who sang Amazing Grace? From: charlie brooke . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 8:29:00 PM
International? Who sang it in Toronto? It was mind blowing and very amazing.
broker?
From: Rick Benchoff . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 5:37:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Greetings everyone, I'm not sure of the original reference (Pass It On, p. 59), but Bill W. has been
referred to as a "stock speculator," especially in light of his cross-country motorcycle trip with Lois visiting various companies investigating thrie economic viability. With warm regards, Rick Benchoff Hagerstown, Maryland "He who has so little knowledge of human nature as to seek happiness by changing
anything but his own disposition will waste his life away in fruitless efforts." (Samuel Johnson)
Book pp. 39-43 From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 9:59:00 PM
seems to
have counted his sobriety from before that time (see the tape by his wife in the
Archives) and to have resigned because he didn't want the added pressure of being a Trustee let alone Chairman. Nor is there any certain evidence that Harry B. got drunk as a Trustee -- but he did drink champagne while seeing someone off on the Q Mary (I think) and immediately resigned. I believe he spent the last 25 years or more of his life (after early 1939?) sober.
> From: martinholmes76@ymail.com > Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:22:57 +0000 > Subject: Fred's story (Harry B.) in Big Book pp. 39-43 > > In the chapter "More about Alcoholism" it says > (Big Book p. 39) that "Fred" was in hospital with > "a bad case of jitters." Does anyone know how > long he was drinking before this? > > - - - - > > From Glenn C., Moderator > > "Fred" = Harry Brick > > AA historians believe that "Fred," described as a "partner in a well known accounting firm" in the story in pp. 39-43 of the Big Book, was Harry Brick. See
Harry's story "A Different Slant" in the first edition of the Big Book. > > - - - - > > For more information see the material collected by Nancy Olson et al. at > http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm > > A Different Slant > Harry Brick NY 2nd Board Chair > Original Manuscript #33, Big Book 1st ed. page 252 > > His date of sobriety was probably June 1938. It is said that he sued to get the money he had loaned A.A. to get the Big Book published refunded. > > Harry was probably an accountant. He is believed to be "Fred, a partner in a well known accounting firm" whose story is told on pages 39 through 43 of the Big Book. > > He was happily married with fine children, sufficient income to indulge his whims and future financial security. He was known as a conservative, sound businessman. To all appearances he was a stable, well-balanced individual, with
an attractive personality who made friends easily. > > However, he missed going to his office several times because of drinking, and when he failed in efforts to stop on his own, had to be hospitalized -- a blow to his ego. At the hospital a doctor told him about a group of men staying sober, and he reluctantly consented to have one of them call on him, only to be polite to the doctor. He refused help from the man who called on him, but within sixty days, after leaving the hospital the second time, he was pounding at his door, willing to do anything to conquer the vicious thing that had conquered him. > > He soon learned that not only had his drinking problem been relieved, but quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all
his problems. > > While his old way of living was by no means a bad one, he would not go back to it he would not go back to it even if he could. His worst days in the fellowship were better than his best days when he was drinking. > > His story is the shortest in the 1st edition. He had only one point he wanted to make. Even a man with everything money can buy, a man with tremendous pride and will power to function in all ordinary circumstances, could become an alcoholic and find himself as hopeless and helpless as the man who has a multitude of worries and troubles. Doctor Earl M. ("Physician Heal Thyself") described this as "the skid row of success," p. 345, 3rd edition. > > Harry served on the first board of trustees of the Alcoholic Foundation, replacing Bill Ruddell, who got drunk. Soon Harry was drunk, too. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6765. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W. and Father Ralph Pfau From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 11:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Mike, Could you elaborate on that a little? Sounds really interesting. I've been to Stepping Stones and plan to go again soon, where would I look for that citation?
fact, I got to tell her that the cane and Crucifix behind Bills desk in Wits End was Father Ed's, she had no idea.
hanging in Wits End was the original. Do you know? I read (In Markings I think...) that it was, but I'm not confident about that.
> > It may be interesting to note that Father John Doe who had threatened to disrupt the St. Louis Convention brought with him to the convention a citation from the Pope to Bill Wilson which hangs at Stepping Stones. > > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz > Phila, PA. U.S.A. >
From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 3:18:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The May-June 2004 issue of "Markings", the AA GSO Archives newsletter, records
the visit to Rome in 1972 of two Irish and English AA members for an audience
with Pope Paul VI. He presented them with a medallion of the Good Shepherd, which is on display in the archives at GSO New York. There was (and maybe still is) a photograph of the Pope with the AA members, Sackville M. and Travers C., at Stepping Stones. The visit to Rome was suggested by Archbishop Enrici because, he told a convention at Bristol, England, in 1971, the Vatican "was poorly acquainted with the work of the Fellowship". Sackville's story appeared in the Big Book under the title "The Career Officer" (page 411 in "Experience, Strength and Hope"). - - - - To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:07:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Bill W. and Father Ralph Pfau
disrupt
the St. Louis Convention brought with him to the convention a citation from the
Pope to Bill Wilson which hangs at Stepping Stones. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, PA. U.S.A.
triangle/circle design From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 8:20:00 AM
explanation for the triangle motif which actually derived from the Oxford Group.
was
originally from his mentor Henry B. Wright, and he referred to it as "the triangle." If I understand correctly, the idea was that when doing personal work one should of course be praying for the person being helped. These prayers
should have three vectors: Person A (the Christian) prays to God for the salvation of person B (imagine upward leg of triangle): God "opens the heart" of person B (second leg of triangle): God also helps person A to effectively evangelize person B (horizontal arm of triangle).
of this or a similar concept, with a circle added to represent the group. Just a guess of course but somehow it seems more like early AA. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6768. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Freemasonry and A.A. From: kodom2545 . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 10:04:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have been interested the topic myself and have posted on it. You can check posts 5725, 5732, 5735 on the Yahoo group. The similarities between AA and Freemasonry were mentioned in a recent interview with Da Vinci Code author Dan Brown promoting his new book, The Lost Symbol..
Mr. BROWN: Well, you know, we live in a world where people kill each other every
day over whose definition of God is correct. And here is a worldwide organization that, at its core, will bring people together from many, many different religions and ask only that you believe in a god, and they'll all stand in the same room and proclaim their reverence for a god, and it seems like a perfect blueprint for universal spirituality. SIEGEL: It sounds like your next novel is going to be about Alcoholics Anonymous, at that rate. (Soundbite of laughter) Mr. BROWN: I haven't had the pleasure, but I guess if I follow in the footsteps of other authors, maybe someday.
York
Rite Masonry. However, it is used in many, many, other venues as the previous
posts mentioned above indicate. From As Bill Sees It p. 307, referring to A.A. Comes of Age p . 139: "Circle and Triangle "Above us, at the International Convention at St. Louis in 1955, floated a banner on which was inscribed the then new symbol for A.A., a circle enclosing a triangle. The circle stands for the whole world of A.A., the triangle stands for A.A.'s Three Legacies: Recovery, Unity, and Service. "It is perhaps no accident that priests and seers of antiquity regarded this symbol as a means of warding off spirits of evil." --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Short" > > The first time I noticed that, I thought they had converted an old A.A. clubhouse into a state liquor store! > > -----Original Message----- > From: George Cleveland > > Don't know about freemasonry, but the New Hampshire Liquor Commission has a logo that comes pretty darn close to ours.... > > I love to live in a state of irony... > > See upper left hand corner of their web page at > http://www.nh.gov/liquor/index.shtml >
++++Message 6769. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Freemasonry and A.A. From: Steve Flower . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/28/2010 11:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'm familiar with the rituals of Freemasonry, and have been sober a while, yet I never would have connected any part of Masonic symbolism and AA's recovery program.
religion, for instance (AA refers to a Higher Power, Masonry to the Great Architect of the Universe), both claim to be moral and spiritual rather than religious - but I don't believe that the similarities are because one organization inspired the other. The interlocked circle and triangle symbol is certainly not exclusive to Masonry (as referenced by the earlier comments). The number 12 is certainly symbolic in Christianity, not so much in Masonry. I have to watch my own logic, to ensure that just because a table and a cat both have four legs, I don't end up thinking that a cat is a table. :-) Steve Flower Urbana, IL IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6770. . . . . . . . . . . . EURYPAA closes making history and setting a record for A.A. attendance in Stockholm From: Stockholm Fellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/27/2010 6:47:00 AM
Alcoholics Anonymous ("EURYPAA") conference closed today after a fantastic weekend in Stockholm, Sweden! A total of 577 participants came -- making EURYPAA the largest attended Alcoholics Anonymous convention ever in Stockholm -- from cities all across Sweden, 22 countries in Europe, and more from around the world.
written by Sweden's World Service Delegate, Jan-Ola from A.A. Sweden: "From the board in AA Sweden we would like to say a very warm welcome to all of you especially in this beautiful time of the year. "It always has been some kind of a problem to attract young people to AA for us who has been drinking for many years and do speak a bit of a language that sometimes sound as we came from the dinosaurs. It is in deed tricky to make a teenage interested in the experiences that we can share. "Therefore during the last few years we have been working on getting young people into AA. Groups have been started up in a few places but sometimes they disappear again and that is the way it is. That is the way it all started back in the thirty’s. But we all love AA and we have to fight for this love. And we are very happy to see that things are getting better and better. There are always needs for enthusiastic young people who can attract other young people.
This weekend is an important step. "Do never forget that you are a very important part of AA in Sweden. We need you more than you need us. "Have a great time during your stay in Stockholm and enjoy your sobriety." -GSO AA Sweden /Jan-Ola/
577 = Total Participants 22 = European countries represented: Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, England,
Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Scotland, Spain, Ukraine, Wales, and of
course Sweden 6 = Countries from outside Europe: Iran, Israel, Ghana, Australia, Canada, United States of America 39= A.A. Meetings & Workshops 12 = Languages in which A.A. meetings were held: English, Finnish, Italian, German, Spanish, Danish, Norwegian, Irish, Icelandic, French, Lithuanian, and Swedish
13 = Acts performing in Sunset Concert 3 = DJs spinning at Disco 20 = Wannabe vikings swam at Långholmen, midnight Saturday in the pouring rain
2 = Cities inviting to host EURYPAA 2011: Dublin, Ireland and London, England
16 = Age of Youngest attending A.A. member 89 = Oldest attending A.A. member 1 day = Youngest sobriety at Sunday's Sobriety Countdown 52 years: Longest continuous sobriety at the Sobriety Countdown - - - - NEXT UP, EURYPAA 2011 DUBLIN: Unique to the EURYPAA conference, all attendees are asked to vote on who will host the next EURYPAA with cheers and applause at the Saturday Main Meeting. Members of A.A. from London, England and Dublin, Ireland invited to host next
year. It was a close vote, measured with the audio meter on our sound system.
Both cities were well into the red level, the enthusiasm was so loud. But Dublin
won by a decibel. The Dublin gang wants you to know: "We are very excited! This first EURYPAA was
a tremendous weekend and we will always be grateful to the Stockholm fellowship which started EURYPAA. Now we head back to Ireland and will get started planning
for EURYPAA next year! If this weekend is anything to go by, you would be crazy
to miss next year! Fáilte! (Welcome!)" Over one thousand people are anticipated to attend the 2nd EURYPAA in Dublin,
August 2011. For more information email info@eurypaa.org or go to http://www.EURYPAA.org/ - - - - MEET US AT ICYPAA: Some of us from EURYPAA are heading over to ICYPAA (www.icypaahost.org) in New York City, 26-29 August. Pre-registration, at a discount rate, is open online only until 4 August, so register now. Come by and visit with us from Sweden, Ireland, England and more from EURYPAA.
Jay G.
++++Message 6771. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Fred''s story (Harry B.) in Big Book pp. 39-43 From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/30/2010 8:54:00 AM
Story "A Business Man's Recovery") got drunk as a Trustee. AA Comes of Age manuscript (p 81): "Our first Foundation Board consisted of five trustees. Dick Richardson, Frank Amos, and Dr. Leonard Strong, were the non-alcoholic members, and Dr. Bob and one of the New York A.A.'s made up the alcoholic contingent. The New York member soon got drunk, but this possibility had been foreseen in our trust agreement. Drunkenness on the part of an alcoholic trustee meant immediate resignation. We soon named another New Yorker in the drunken brother's place and proceeded to business. It was May, 1938." AA Comes of Age final (p 152): "Our first Board consisted of five Trustees. Dick Richardson, Frank Amos, and Dr. Strong were the nonalcobolic members, and we chose Dr. Bob and one of the New York A.A.'s as the alcoholic contingent. The New York member soon got drunk, but this possibility had been foreseen. Drunkenness on the part of an alcoholic Trustee meant immediate resignation. Another alcoholic was named in the drunken brother's place and we proceeded to business. It was May, 1938."
this time, our trusteeship was enlarged. Mr. Robert Shaw, well-known accountant, was elected to the Board. Bill R. had resigned as an alcoholic trustee and two New Yorkers, my friends Horace C. and Bert T., had been named. A little later, these were joined by Dick S., one of the original Akronites, who now living in New York, had been ardent in the creation of the Twenty-Fourth Street Club."
time our trusteeship began to be enlarged. Mr. Robert Shaw, a lawyer and friend of Uncle Dick's, was elected to the Board. Two New Yorkers, my friends Howard and Bert, were also named. As time passed, these were joined by Tom B. and Dick S. Dick had been one of the original Akronites and was now living in New York. There was also Tom K., a hard-working and conservative Jerseyman. Somewhat later more nonalcoholics, notably Bernard Smith and Leonard Harrison, took up their long season of service with us." Pass It On (p 189) repeats the information contained in AA Comes of Age and names Bill R: "Many details had to be worked out (One of the stumbling blocks, ironically, was everyone's inability to provide a "legal" definition of an alcoholic') It was finally agreed that the trust would be called the Alcoholic Foundation Its board of trustees was formally implemented on August 11, 1938, with five members, three of whom were nonalcoholics Richardson, Amos, and John Wood The alcoholic members were Dr Bob and Bill R , of the New York area. The trust agreement stipulated that an alcoholic trustee would have to resign immediately if he got drunk. (This actually happened in the case of the New York member, and he was replaced forthwith )."
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Lobdell Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:00 PM To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: Fred's story (Harry B.) in Big Book pp. 39-43
seems to have counted his sobriety from before that time (see the tape by his wife in the Archives) and to have resigned because he didn't want the added pressure of being a Trustee let alone Chairman. Nor is there any certain evidence that Harry B. got drunk as a Trustee -- but he did drink champagne while seeing someone off on the Q Mary (I think) and immediately resigned. I believe he spent the last 25 years or more of his life (after early 1939?) sober. > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: martinholmes76@ymail.com > Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:22:57 +0000 > Subject: Fred's story (Harry B.) in Big Book pp. 39-43 > > In the chapter "More about Alcoholism" it says > (Big Book p. 39) that "Fred" was in hospital with > "a bad case of jitters." Does anyone know how > long he was drinking before this? > > - - - - > > From Glenn C., Moderator > > "Fred" = Harry Brick > > AA historians believe that "Fred," described as a "partner in a well known accounting firm" in the story in pp. 39-43 of the Big Book, was Harry Brick. See Harry's story "A Different Slant" in the first edition of the Big Book. > > - - - - > > For more information see the material collected by Nancy Olson et al. at > http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm > > A Different Slant > Harry Brick NY 2nd Board Chair > Original Manuscript #33, Big Book 1st ed. page 252 > > His date of sobriety was probably June 1938. It is said that he sued to get the money he had loaned A.A. to get the Big Book published refunded. > > Harry was probably an accountant. He is believed to be "Fred, a partner in a well known accounting firm" whose story is told on pages 39 through 43 of the Big Book. > > He was happily married with fine children, sufficient income to indulge his whims and future financial security. He was known as a conservative, sound businessman. To all appearances he was a stable, well-balanced individual, with an attractive personality who made friends easily. > > However, he missed going to his office several times because of drinking, and when he failed in efforts to stop on his own, had to be hospitalized -- a blow to his ego. At the hospital a doctor told him about a group of men staying sober, and he reluctantly consented to have one of them call on him, only to be polite to the doctor. He refused help from the man who called on him, but within sixty days, after leaving the hospital the second time, he was pounding at his door, willing to do anything to conquer the vicious thing that had conquered him. > > He soon learned that not only had his drinking problem been relieved, but quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all his problems. > > While his old way of living was by no means a bad one, he would not go back to it he would not go back to it even if he could. His worst days in the fellowship were better than his best days when he was drinking. > > His story is the shortest in the 1st edition. He had only one point he wanted to make. Even a man with everything money can buy, a man with tremendous pride and will power to function in all ordinary circumstances, could become an alcoholic and find himself as hopeless and helpless as the man who has a multitude of worries and troubles. Doctor Earl M. ("Physician Heal Thyself") described this as "the skid row of success," p. 345, 3rd edition.
> > Harry served on the first board of trustees of the Alcoholic Foundation, replacing Bill Ruddell, who got drunk. Soon Harry was drunk, too.
sang Amazing Grace? From: rvnprit . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/30/2010 6:29:00 AM
also from: William Middleton Judy C______ sang it in Toronto in 2005. - - - - From: Joseph Nugent What about Seattle in 1990, the woman WAS blind? - - - - THE A.A. INTERNATIONALS: 1950 Cleveland 1955 St. Louis 1960 Long Beach 1965 Toronto 1970 Miami 1975 Denver 1980 New Orleans 1985 Montreal 1990 Seattle 1995 San Diego 2000 Minneapolis 2005 Toronto 2010 San Antonio IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6773. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Sackville and Travers From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/31/2010 2:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII There is a picture of the Pope with Sackville and Travers, I believe, in the archives in Bristol, England.
at hotmail.com) Re: Bill W. and Father Ralph Pfau The May-June 2004 issue of "Markings", the AA GSO Archives newsletter, records
the visit to Rome in 1972 of two Irish and English AA members for an audience
with Pope Paul VI. He presented them with a medallion of the Good Shepherd, which is on display in the archives at GSO New York. There was (and maybe still is) a photograph of the Pope with the AA members, Sackville M. and Travers C., at Stepping Stones .... Sackville's story appeared in the Big Book under the title "The Career Officer" (page 411 in "Experience, Strength and Hope").
From: schaberg43 . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/2/2010 11:57:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII For an ongoing research project, I am trying to locate either originals or copies of letters from Dr. Bob to Bill from the year 1938. I already have a copy of the February, 1938 letter that tells Bill the details
of Frank Amos' visit to Akron – but cannot locate any other letters from this
year. Bill's letters to Bob – describing the chapters of the Big Book as they were
being written and sent to him – are all available at the GSO Archive (where I
have copied the text), but I cannot find any of Dr. Bob's responses to any of these letters. Does anyone on the AAHistoryLovers Forum know of any other Dr. Bob letters to Bill from 1938 (other than the February letter) that perhaps might be in a state archive or in a private collection? If so, I would appreciate knowing where they can be seen – and would be happy to
travel there to see them. Best, Old Bill IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6775. . . . . . . . . . . . Emmet Fox and Bill Wilson From: Geoff Smith . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/2/2010 12:49:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII We know early AA's attended Fox's talks, but is there anything documented that
shows Bill W and Emmet Fox met/talked/corresponded? thanks Geoff
++++Message 6776. . . . . . . . . . . . Ralph Waldo Trine From: trysh travis . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/2/2010 2:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Following up on John B.'s post of a few days ago regarding Trine's *In Tune with the Infinite,* I just wanted to ask whether anyone has done research at Stepping Stones to determine whether Bill and/or Lois owned a copy of the book? It allegedly sold around 2 million copies in its day, so Bill need not have owned or even read it to have been influenced by it. However, it would be very interesting to establish more concretely Bill and Dr. Bob's exposure to the ideas of New Thought religions, and personal libraries are one way that historians can do that. I talk in my book about AA’s connections to New Thought, but relied on a “it was in the air” kind of argument, rather than hard material evidence to make my claims, and I would like to be able to be more concrete in future.
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