704
SERGIU HART
there are rules, which are good rules. And they are good not just because G-d gave
them to us. We may not understand the reasons, but if we go deep enough and start
analyzing, we may find good reasons for them. Moreover, if people are following
these rules it leads perhaps to a better society—a Pareto improvement. Is that
correct?
A: Well, it is your way of putting it. Let me enlarge on it. The observance of the
Sabbath is extremely beautiful, and is impossible without being religious. It is not
even a question of improving society—it is about improving one’s own quality of
life. For example, let’s say I’m taking a trip a couple of hours after the Sabbath.
Any other person would spend the day packing, going to the office, making final
arrangements, final phone calls, this and that. For me it’s out of the question. I do
it on Friday. The Sabbath is there. The world stops.
H: That’s a good example. In fact my wife has said many times, after yet another
guest suddenly dropped in on us on Saturday, or we had to go and do something or
other: “I wish we would become religious and have a really quiet Saturday once
in a while.” So I can definitely understand the advantages of having a nice, quiet
day of rest.
A: The day before the Sabbath, Friday, is a very hectic day for the person in
charge of the house, who has to prepare for the Sabbath. On Friday in Israel, like
on Saturday in most of the western world, many offices are closed. It is a semi-
day-of-rest. But for religious people, especially for the houseperson, it is very
hectic. We have a seminar series at the Center for Rationality called “Rationality
on Friday”; my wife used to say that she could understand rationality on any other
day, but not on Friday.
So, we have this one day in the week when nothing can come in the way and
we are shut off from the world. We don’t answer the phone, we don’t operate
electricity, we don’t drive cars.
H: It is a self-committing device, if you translate it into rational terms.
A: Exactly, it’s a self-committing device.
Here is another example. There was a period fifteen, twenty years ago when
stealing software was considered okay by many people, including many academics.
There was an item of software that I needed, and I was wondering whether to “steal”
it—make a copy of which the developers of the software disapprove. Then I said
to myself, why do you have to wonder about this? You are a religious person. Go to
your rabbi and ask him. I don’t have to worry about these questions because I have
a religion that tells me what to do. So I went to my rabbi—a Holocaust survivor,
a very renowned, pious person. I figured he won’t even know what software is—
I’ll have to explain it to him. Maybe there is a Talmudic rule about this kind of
intellectual property not really being property. Whatever he’ll say, I’ll do. I went
to him. He said, ask my son-in-law. So I said, no, I am asking you. He said, okay,
come back in a few days. I’ll make a long story short. I went back again and again.
He didn’t want to give me an answer. Finally I insisted and he said, “Okay, if you
really want to know, it’s absolutely forbidden to do this, absolutely forbidden.” So
I ordered the software.
INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT AUMANN
705
In short, you can be a moral person, but morals are often equivocal. In the
eighties, copying software was considered moral by many people. The point I am
making is that religion—at least my religion—is a sort of force, a way of making a
commitment to conduct yourself in a certain way, which is good for the individual
and good for society.
H: But then, in a world where everybody follows these rules, there is perhaps
no reason for game theory. Of course, there is a problem in the details; the rules of
conduct may not be enough to tell you exactly what to do in every situation. But
in principle, in a world populated by religious people, do we need game theory?
A: Certainly. The rules cover only the moral or ethical issues. There is a lot of
room within these rules for strategic behavior. For example, the rules tell you that
if you made an offer and it was accepted, then you can’t renege. But they don’t tell
you how much to offer. The rules tell you that you must bargain in good faith, but
they don’t tell you whether to be tough, or compromising, or whatever. The rules
tell you, “You may not steal software”; but they don’t tell you how much to pay
for the software, when to buy it and when not. The rules tell you to give a lot to
charity, but not how much. There was a study made in the United States of income
tax deductions to charity. It turned out that orthodox Jews were among the largest
contributors to charities. It’s a religious command.
Unfortunately it has been my lot to spend more time in hospitals than I would
have wanted. I have witnessed some very beautiful things. People coming to
hospital wards and saying, look, we have private ambulances. We can take people
from this hospital to wherever you want to go, from Metulla to Eilat (the northern
and southern extremities of Israel), for nothing. We’ll take anybody, religious, ir-
religious, Jews, Arabs, anybody. These were people who obviously were religious.
They were going around with a beard and sidelocks. You have people who come
around on Friday afternoon to make kiddush for the sick, and people who come
around at any time of the week playing the violin and things like that.
The religious community, by the way, is very close. This matter of khessed,
of helping your fellow man, is very strong in religious communities; it is a com-
mandment, like eating kosher and keeping the Sabbath.
H: Returning to the rules and their interpretation: do you mean that you would
not go to the rabbi to ask him, say, whether to enter into a certain partnership, or
how to vote in an election?
A: Well, I would not, and many others like me would not. But others—for
example, “Khassidim”—might well consult their rabbi on such matters. In Khas-
sidic circles, the rabbi is often much more than a scholar and legal and spiritual
authority. He is a fountain of advice on all kinds of important decisions—medical,
business, family, whatever. And often he gives very good advice! How come? Is
he smarter than others? Yes, he often is. But that’s not the important reason. The
important reason is that everybody comes to him, so he gets a whole lot of inside
information. We have a very interesting strategic equilibrium there—it’s optimal
for everyone to go to him, given that everybody goes to him! Of course, for that
it is important that he be honest and straightforward, and that’s already dictated