Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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authority -- yet. Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82
iPhone.
> The notion that we are "powerless over people places and things" > comes directly from Al-Anon and has nothing to do with avoiding > anything. It is all about acceptance of other people's, things or > situations as autonomous. A similiar concept promoted by Al-Anon is > known as "the three C's." That is I didn't cause it, I can't > control it and I can't cure it. It is the conclusion that one > reaches when one aknowledges their limitations and finally > understands that certain things have to be left in God's hands. You > could say it is the realization that I am not God and that > pretending otherwise is just inviting another lesson in futility. > Basically it's about letting GO and letting God, rather than playing > God.
> > Jim F.
> > --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlawlee@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > From: johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:20 AM > >
> > > > > > > The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text > of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. > It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the > AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the > three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing > realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no > longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." > The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and > converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over > people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid > people, places and things." > The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic > literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to > the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any > scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is > doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big > Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page > 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been > given the power to help others." > Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. > The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, > The FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE > powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further > indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the > Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help > others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always > be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. > love+service > John Lee > Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > wrote: > > From: Jon Markle > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: "AAHistoryLovers" > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM > > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
> ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5809. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: "People places things" From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:36:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Daily Relections January 3rd, page 11 "Iv'e learned that I do not have the power and control I once thought I had. I am powerless over what people think about me. I am powerless over having just missed the bus. I am powerless over how other people work (or don't work) the Steps. But I've also learned I am not powerless over some things. I am not powerless over my attitudes. I am not powerless over negativity. I am not powerless over assuming responsibility for my own recovery." --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Carole Seddon From: Carole Seddon Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "'AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com'" Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 2:36 PM It is part of Al Anon for their first step, I believe. Carole S From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of johnlawlee@yahoo. com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:20 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing realizations. " The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and converted it to a
claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid people, places and things." The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion... " The Big Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been given the power to help others." Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The FIrst Step says that we
WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The
Big Book further indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of
the Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. love+service John Lee
Pittsburgh-- - On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle From: Jon Markle Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" To: "AAHistoryLovers" vers%40yahoogrou ps.com>> Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM
things" come from? 9/9/82
Williams)
permanent." (M.McLaughlin) stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:49:00 AM the AA
steps
step
adviser, a psychologist or ever a total stranger. Also in the book Living Sober
(in the section that answers questions on sponsorship) it states that not sponsor is not absolutely required to work the steps and since not everyone in AA has had a sponsor that sponsorship must be optional. (Though not highly recommended) Sincerely, Jim F. --- On Mon, 6/22/09, allan_gengler From: allan_gengler Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:45 PM Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The
Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and
not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times.
But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly
possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take
the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus
becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober
drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even
the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily
and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision
in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com, Charlie C > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5811. . . . . . . . . . . . Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? From: Gregory Harris . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 7:55:00 AM
There is some discussion in our local group...this is along the lines of trivia but some of us are curious....does anyone know HOW Bill got from the hotel to the Gatehouse (i.e. bus..cab..or what?) Thanks Greg H. in Illinois
From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 8:51:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From "Paths to Recovery-al-Anon's Steps, Traditions & Concepts" , p. 9 "As we look back on our lives, we are asked to acknowledge our powerlessness over alcohol, the alcoholic, and every person and event we sought to control by our own willpower.. By letting go of the illusion of control over other people, their actions and their addiction to alcohol, we find an enormous burden is lifted and we begin to discover the freedom and the power we do possess--the power to define and live our on lives."
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> On Jun 22, 2009, at 5:36 PM, Carole Seddon wrote: > > > It is part of Al Anon for their first step, I believe. > > Carole S > > From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > johnlawlee@yahoo.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:20 AM > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > > The cliche "people, places and things" comes from the Basic Text of > Narcotics Anonymous, specifically page 15 of the Sixth Edition. > It's not found in the AA literature, and it is contradictory to the > AA message. The NA Basic Text converts the > three pertinent ideas of the BIg Book to "three disturbing > realizations." The third "disturbing realization" is , "we can no > longer blame people, places and things for our addiction." > The treatment industry has gotten ahold of the NA language and > converted it to a claim that "we are [supposedly] powerless over > people, places and things" or even worse, that "we should avoid > people, places and things." > The "people places things" cliche is absent from the basic > literature of AA; more importantly, the cliche is contradictory to > the AA message. Page 102 of the Big Book assures us, "...any > scheme...which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is > doomed...he usually winds up with a bigger explosion..." The Big > Book also indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page > 132 of the AA basic text promises, "We have recovered, and been > given the power to help others." > Nothing in the basic literature of AA says we're powerless. The > FIrst Step doesn't say we're powerless. It's in the past tense, The > FIrst Step says that we WERE powerless, that we USED TO BE > powerless [before taking all 12 Steps]. The Big Book further > indicates that we don't stay powerless over people. Page 132 of the > Big Book promises, "we have recovered and been the power to help > others." To claim that "we stay powerless" , or that "we'll always > be powerless" is the exact opposite of the AA message. > love+service > John Lee > Pittsburgh--- On Sun, 6/21/09, Jon Markle > > > From: Jon Markle > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "People places things" > To: "AAHistoryLovers" > > 40yahoogroups.com>>
> Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 9:45 PM >
> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5813. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wino Joe? From: elg3_79 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 11:27:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A great recording of Joe can be found at www.xa-speakers.org -- I have the link
as http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=290 or search "wino" and
he'll pop up .. (My favorite of Joe's "questions" was "Have you ever had malfunction of the zipper?" .. Then after the laughter subsides, he says wistfully "They used to call me 'Rusty' ..") Y'all's in service Ted G.
> > Hi All, > > I heard from the Joe and Charlie Tapes, mention "Wino Joe's" list of being an alcoholic. Joe mentioned only 2 or three from this humorous list. > > Anyone have the list. > > AA Love and Hugs, > Dave G. > Illinois >
From: bridgetsbuddy . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 9:39:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment." ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?
wrote:
> > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and > things" come from? > > Hugs for the trudge. > > Jon (Raleigh) > 9/9/82 > > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee > Williams) > > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not > permanent." (M.McLaughlin) > > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson) > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
++++Message 5815. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 9:39:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Sponsorship like everything else in the AA program is optional (including misery). Also not everyone believes that the sponsor/sponsee relationship should gone on indefinately or that an AA member should be permitted to become
overly dependant on their sponsor. Below are a couple of interesting passages
taken from AAWS's Questions and Answers on Sponsorship Pamphlet. Â
sponsor - a person who vouches for you, presents you as being suitable for membership. This is definitely not the case with A.A. Anyone who has a desire to stop drinking is welcome to join us!â Â How can a sponsor handle an overdependent newcomer? In the first days of sobriety, a newcomer is sometimes so bewildered and frightened - or so mentally fuzzy and physically weak - that he or she needs to be taken to each meeting and perhaps helped in making personal decisions. But such utter dependence Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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