Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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published papers on the subject. See
family''s religious beliefs From: LES COLE . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 5:24:00 PM
personally felt a need for friendship all of his life.
comforting others was a fundamental part of her personality too. We all, most likely, have felt the need for group support and Fellowship meetings attest to this.
accepting others...whatever their nature or flaws. They were "comfortable" with group activity. As I recently became more familiar with what the Swedenborgian religion was all about, and it is not "Quaker" but it seems rather similar, I for the first time realized that the Burnham family actually had a religious orientation.
any religious views or sought to influence others with his own religious background. However, the Burnham's moral outlook fit right in with Bill's social strivings early in his youth and throughout his life. It looks to me, that Bill's spiritual growth, which developed during his adult years, was directly inspired by/in the "Burnham" environment as he struggled with his years of alcoholism while married to Lois ... and ... having a close relationship with all the other brothers and sisters-in-law.
by the brief exposure to the Oxford Group principles just before Bill developed the AA program.
Colorado Springs, Colorado
architect From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 2:44:00 PM
conclude
that are mostly accurate, about no difference between "religion" and "spiritual". But, I have my sincere doubts about such an observation, having had some passing study of our colorful history (in AA) through this group.
any
idea. But, that does not make it so. However, today, it cannot be said that "religion" and "spiritual" are one in the
same. They are most decidedly NOT. And this is the world . . . the NOW . . . that interests me most. We have resources and understanding today that the drunks did not have back then. Dare I say, better? "More will be revealed". Living in the past world will not help us grow. We must learn from their mistakes. If religion offered us the answer we sought to have the desire to drink removed, we would not need AA. Fact is, it didn't work. And there's the crux. No one (I hope) wants religious interference in AA, I think. That would indeed kill us all, I'm afraid. And attempts to justify such moves, by citing "history" . . . real and imagined, are very damaging, I think. And make AA into a thing that becomes both scary and non-productive. Just like church could not get me sober, neither could an AA meeting that sounds like church. Jon Markle Raleigh
9/9/82 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6177. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Swedenborgianism and the Burnham family''s religious beliefs From: glennccc . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 3:36:00 PM
around in Bill Wilson's life and reading. Remember that William James was brought up as a Swedenborgian. James' Varieties of Religious Experience had an enormous influence on Bill Wilson's ideas about religion and spirituality right after he first got sober. And we must also remember that one of William James' main points in that book -- the thing that did more than anything else to make it popular and widely read -- was James' demonstration that only a small percentage of human beings could be helped by the kind of revivalistic religion that talked about undergoing "conversion" by being "born again" in a highly emotional conversion experience.
type to be helped that way, James said: people who were highly susceptible to post-hypnotic suggestion, because the revival sermons were designed to have a powerfully hynoptic appeal.
had visions where the heavens seemed to open, in Lecture III of the Varieties of Religious Experience (compare Bill W.'s white light experience), but we should note, for example:
of Healthy-Mindedness," by which he meant the kind of approach which was used by Emmet Fox and James Allen and other similar NEW THOUGHT authors, who ALSO affected many early AA people very strongly, and which was very different from the approach taken by the revivalist preachers and the people who were seeking highly emotional "conversion experiences." That is because there is another subset of the population which is of a psychological type where the New Thought approach works better than any of the others. Contemporary spiritual writers who take a version of the NEW THOUGHT approach include Louise Hay, Wayne Dyer, Marianne Williamson, and the people associated with A Course in Miracles. But again, this spiritual approach isn't going to work for everyone either. What I have long been curious about is the question of whether and how William James' Swedenborgian background might have helped him to understand some of these varieties of spiritual experience, and also whether there might not be some undercurrent in James' thought which resonated in a positive way with the Swedenborgian influence which Bill W. had experienced through his years of involvement with Lois and her family. So Les, I am looking forward to seeing the results of your research, and hope very much that you can illuminate us all further about the possible Swedenborgian influences on Bill Wilson's ideas.
architect From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 9:25:00 AM
notes to pages 136-138: 3. ... citable is Laura Huxley (Los Angles Ca) to Wilson, 26 February 1964, replying to Wilson's note of condolence at Aldous's death:
that Aldous had for you? When he described you, he would say 'a modern saint.'"
does above, is not the answer, but Aldous Huxley's admiration is there.
Loved Drunks From: octoberbabye . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/25/2009 7:46:00 PM
that one can go to the library and request a copy of an out-of-print from interlibrary loan.
this might work for the time that you want to use it.
> > I apologize in advance if this is an inappropriate > topic for this thread but I have exhausted my > resources looking for a copy of > > Dale Mitchel, "Silkworth: The Little Doctor > Who Loved Drunks: The Biography of William > Duncan Silkworth, M.D." (Center City, Minnesota: > Hazelden, 2002). > > Aside from paying the $61 to $200 which Amazon > and http://www.abebooks.com/ are asking. > > Could someone email me if they have a copy they > could lend me? My email address is: > > "Stephen" > (saberle at comcast.net) > > I will be happy to pay shipping or if you are > local in New Jersey, I could meet you at a > meeting of your choice. > > Thanks in advance > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6180. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: More on Huxley etc. -- the term ex-alcoholic From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 7:15:00 PM
Aldous Huxley: "Another stranger writes from Los Angeles. He is an ex-alcoholic (sic), who had ecstatic experiences in his early days of alcoholism and insists ...." I would note that the First Edition of our Big Book used the term "ex-alcoholic" six times, on pp. 28, 30, 271, 272, and 330, and it wasn't until the 11th Printing in 1947 that it was changed. I suspect the term was commonly used then.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6181. . . . . . . . . . . . Buddhism and AA From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/24/2009 3:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I just finished reading "One Breath at a Time, Buddhism and the Twelve Steps," by Kevin Griffin. What does AA history tell us about other connections between AA and Buddhism in the past? Is there any evidence for a direct influence of Buddhist ideas on AA during the earliest period?
a Day) was influenced to a certain degree by ideas from the Hindu religious tradition (note the quote at the beginning of the little black book as merely one example).
at Williams College where the tradition of the New England Transcentalists was still alive, as one can see by looking at their curriculum and where and how their faculty were educated.
language, it is not always easy to tell the difference between Hinduism and Buddhism.
From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/25/2009 6:33:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII "... the large number of recoveries ... Of alcoholics who came to AA and really
tried 50 per cent got sober at once and remained that way; 25 per cent sobered
up after some relapse, and among the remainder, those who stayed with AA showed
improvement. Other thousands came to a few AA meetings and at first decided that
they didn't want the program. But great numbers of these - about two out of three - began to return as time passed." (Foreword, second edition Bib Book, 1955).
Yet
if half those who "really tried" got sober straight away, it follows that the
other half - who also really tried - didn't! Not so impressive after all perhaps. And how mdo we square that with chapter five's claim that "Raely have we seen a person fail ..." In any case, how did AA in 1955 arrive at these figures? Was it, as I suspect, merely anecdotal impressions, or were statistics collected? When did Conference first start organising its periodic membership surveys?
(AA) RECOVERY OUTCOME RATES: Contemporary Myth and Misinterpretation" by Arthur S. (Arlington, TX), Tom E. (Wappingers Falls, NY), and Glenn C. (South Bend, IN).
if you want the article as an Adobe Acrobat PDF file http://hindsfoot.org/recout01.doc if you would prefer to read it as an MS Word DOC file Glenn C. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6183. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA and Oxford Group history study groups From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 4:39:00 AM
from the Oxford Group and its practices, and to try to make AA available worldwide to any and all.
mild surprise to him and his age. Are some of our historians and old-timers trying to turn AA back into the Oxford group and thereby into a Protestant sect which would exclude everybody except for a few conservative evangelical Bible quoters? - - - - From: John Barton The Big Book and Twelve and Twelve contain a fair amount of "theological propositions". Both books espouse the Christian-Judeo theology of the Bible with the frequent use of such terms as "Father, Creator, Maker, Father of Light who presides over us all, "Him", "He" etc. There is also significant use of bible quotes throughout both texts
such as "Thy will be done", "The Father doeth the works", "Faith without works
is dead" and many more too numerous and hopefully not necessary to quote here.
Taking that which already existed from Medicine and Religion and adapting it to our special use. Whether or not AA is Spiritual, Religious, both, neither and whether of not our
twelve steps constitute "dogma" or "doctrine" would seem to be outside issues,
best left to the experts in the fields of sociology and anthropology. I would also point out that just because AA says ......"xyz"..... or Bill W. said ..."abc".... doesn't necessarily make it so. God Bless IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6184. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Swedenborgianism and the Burnham family''s religious beliefs From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/28/2009 4:37:00 PM
Bill W might soon go overseas, he and Lois were married at the Swedenborgian Church of the New Jerusalem in Brooklyn, NY. The wedding date was originally scheduled for February 1. Lois' brother Rogers Burnham was best man (he was also reputed to be good friends with Bill).
historian, whom I have always deeply admired, visited Lois Wilson not long before her death. She asked what Lois' own religious beliefs were, and was told that she "is a Swedenborgian." What struck this archivist was the use of the present tense: not "was" a Swedenborgian but "is" a Swedenborgian.
allowed to visit Lois and talk with her, and asked if there was anything she could do to return the favor. She was told "please help start a good archives in Akron in connection with Dr. Bob's house." But that is a further story.
1: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm#Florence%20Rankin 2: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Silkworth&GScid=99997&GRid=11339789& 3: http://improveourconsciouscontact.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-question-by-gail-dewitt.html 4: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/03-09-2009/0004985249&EDATE= 5: http://www.fathermartinsashley.com/interior.php?section=AboutAshley&subsection=Bio 6: http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/a-model-of-access-to-and-continuance-in/33nxpux3imfog/4 7: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C00E1D61130E132A2575BC1A9609C946397D6CF 8: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=765521&image=251877337&images=251877337,251877379,251877417&formats=0,0,0&format=0 9: http://knol.google.com/k/loran-archer/pathways-to-abstinence-impact-of/33nxpux3imfog/6 10: http://museumcollections.in.gov/detail.php?t=objects&type=browse&f=object_type&s=Booklet&record=15 11: http://imageevent.com/publicgallery/photography/symbolsandlofos000?p=79&n=1&m=-1&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 12: http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 13: http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/shall-the-fundamentalists-win.pdf 14: http://books.google.com/books?id=2bRx12uApGIC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=%22Harry+Emerson+Fosdick%22+%22Shall+the+Fundamentalists+Win%3F%22&source=bl&ots=YKN_8jj4C-&sig=-hUtvAY_HRYUrDFvErL1hzYLtlI&hl=en&ei=jORYSuaMCpDwlAeTmKTjBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8 15: http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 16: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html 17: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2024.html 18: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2184.html 19: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Orleans_Parish,_Louisiana 20: http://amhist.ist.unomaha.edu/module_files/Harry%20Emerson%20Fosdick%20Shall%20the%20Fundamentalists%20Win.rtf 21: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William_James_The_Varieties_of_Religious_Experience.pdf 22: http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/scienceenvironment/1789/we_were_powerless:_addiction,_the_will,_and_the_evangelical_roots_of_the_twelve_steps 23: http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=39321&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQWp1bHkrMTk3NyZwZz01 24: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jrt2hfWnR3TOfcR2BUHUoaiXsVSgD9BB492O0 25: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu28.htm#Anchor-Chapter-4957 26: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cu28.htm#Anchor-Chapter-49575 27: http://www.jamesallenlibrary.com/the-divine-companion-instruction-concerning-the-great-reality.html 28: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/chicagotribune/obituary.aspx?n=paul-w-martin&pid=135069949 29: http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2009/11/12/Ryder-begins-work-on-TV-movie/UPI-31871258069245/ 30: http://bp1.blogger.com/_Eqntjja134w/SEYGzZmccfI/AAAAAAAAACk/44OLgiO1Ri0/s1600-h/Untitled1.jpg Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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