Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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Delegates. These Delegates represent the conscience and desire of AA as regards functional or service matters. Our Tradition contains an emphatic injunction that these Trustees may never constitute themselves as a government -- they are to merely provide certain services that enable AA as a whole to function. The same principles apply at our group and area level.
be worth, I have my own. But both of us have gone heavily on record to the effect that these personal views and preferences can never under any conditions be injected into the AA program as a working part of it. AA is a sort of spiritual kindergarten, but that is all. Never could it be called a religion. Nor should any clergyman, because he does not happen to be a channel of grace to alcoholics, feel that he or his Church is lacking in grace. No real question of grace is involved at all -- it is just a question of who can best
transmit God's abundance. It so happens that we who have suffered alcoholism, we who can identify so deeply with other sufferers, are the ones usually best suited for this particular work. Certainly no clergyman ought to feel any inferiority just because he himself is not an alcoholic! Then, as I have already emphasized, AA has actually derived all of its principles, directly or indirectly, from the Church. Ours, gentlemen, is a debt of gratitude far beyond any ability of mine to express. On behalf of members everywhere, I give you our deepest thanks for the warm understanding and the wonderful co-operation that you have everywhere afforded us. Please also have my gratitude for the privilege of being with you this morning. This is an hour that I shall remember always ..."
(4) "... When these Steps were shown to my friends, their reactions were quite mixed indeed. Some argued that six steps had worked fine, so why twelve? From our agnostic contingent there were loud cries of too much "God." Others objected to an expression, which I had included which suggested getting on one's knees while in prayer. I heavily resisted these objections for months. But finally did take out my statement about a suitable prayerful posture and I finally went along with that now tremendously important expression, "God as we understand Him" -- this expression having been coined, I think, by one of our former atheist members. This was indeed a ten-strike. That one has since enabled thousands to join AA who would have otherwise gone away. It enabled people of fine religious training and those of none at all to associate freely and to work together. It made one's religion the business of the AA member himself and not that of his society. That AA's Twelve Steps have since been in such high esteem by the Church, that members of the Jesuit Order have repeatedly drawn attention to the similarity between them and the Ignatian Exercises, is a matter for our great wonder and gratitude indeed ..." (5) From the Foreword to the Second Edition Big Book: "... Another reason for the wide acceptance of A.A. was the ministration of friends -- friends in medicine, religion, and the press, together with innumerable others who became our able and persistent advocates. Without such support, A.A. could have made only the slowest progress. Some of the recommendations of A.A.'s early medical and religious friends will be found further on in this book. Alcoholics Anonymous is not a religious organization. Neither does A.A. take any particular medical point of view, though we cooperate widely with the men of medicine as well as with the men of religion.
America, and in distant lands, the same democratic evening-up process is now going on. By personal religious affiliation, we include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus, and a sprinkling of Moslems and Buddhists. More than 15% of us are women ..."
was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different. What had happened?
I wondered what had got into the fellow. He wasn't himself. "Come, what's this all about?" I queried. He looked straight at me. Simply, but smilingly, he said, "I've got religion ..." (7) From We Agnostics "... We, who have traveled this dubious path, beg you to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religion. We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions. People of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about. Actually, we used to have no reasonable conception whatever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demon- strating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves ..." (8) From Into Action "... We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world. Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step. Those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must, and of course, will want to go to the properly appointed authority whose duty it is to receive it. Though we have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained by an established religion. We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics ..."
morning meditation. If we belong to a religious denomination which requires a definite morning devotion, we attend to that also. If not members of religious bodies, we sometimes select and memorize a few set prayers which emphasize the principles we have been discussing. There are many helpful books also. Suggestions about these may be obtained from one's priest, minister, or rabbi. Be quick to see where religious people are right. Make use of what they offer ..." (9) From Working With Others "... Your prospect may belong to a religious denomination. His religious education and training may be far superior to yours. In that case he is going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows. But he will be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked and why yours seem to work so well. He may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient. To be vital, faith must be accompanied by self sacrifice and unselfish, constructive action. Let him see that you are not there to instruct him in religion. Admit that he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it or he would not drink. Perhaps your story will help him see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well. We represent no particular faith or denomination. We are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations ..." (10) From The Family Afterward "... Alcoholics who have derided religious people will be helped by such contacts. Being possessed of a spiritual experience, the alcoholic will find he has much in common with these people, though he may differ with them on many matters. If he does not argue about religion, he will make new friends and is sure to find new avenues of usefulness and pleasure. He and his family can be a bright spot in such congregations. He may bring new hope and new courage to many a priest, minister, or rabbi, who gives his all to minister to our troubled world. We intend the foregoing as a helpful suggestion only. So far as we are concerned, there is nothing obligatory about it. As non-denominational people, we cannot make up others' minds for them. Each individual should consult his own conscience ..."
was that AA is not affiliated with any specific religious denomination and matters of religion are solely up to each individual member to define for themselves -- Bill very definitely was not attempting to distance himself from religion. Two more citations that might be interesting concerning the Oxford Group and its influence on the principles embodied in the Steps. In a July 14, 1949 letter to the Rev Sam Shoemaker Bill W wrote "So far as I am concerned, and Dr Smith too, the Oxford Group seeded AA. It was our spiritual wellspring at the beginning."
self-examination, acknowledgment of character defects, restitution for harm done and working with others straight from the Oxford Groups and directly from Sam Shoemaker their former leader in America and from nowhere else." Cheers Arthur - - - - Message 6165 from Baileygc23@aol.com Subject: Re: Huxley on Bill W. as social architect http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6165
heard Huxley making the statement. I am trying to find my AA today and see if the statement is in the issue. But it seems that the statement is not traceable further back than to Thomsen. I hope there is a more definite source. Let us remember one important thing that is made clear by Bill W's association with Huxley. No one is required to follow any kind of conventional religiosity in order to work the twelve steps and get sober and serene in Alcoholics Anonymous.
in Bill W's statements to the psychiatrists and to the National Catholic Clergy Council:
greater than one's self. ** Even this concept is forced on no one. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6170. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wilson, Lois copyright Ellie van V., 1998 All rights reserved From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 12:07:00 PM
stop having the book published (Gratitude Press). It was withdrawn from publication and most remaining copies destroyed. Ellie V published without consent. I had the legal document on my computer for the longest period but cannot find it now. I have had the book on my beginners recommended book page http://aabibliography.com/beginnersbooks.htm but really should remove that. I am sure the Wilson estate does not want electronic copies floating around since they successfully stopped the printed versions. LD Pierce www.aabibliography.com eztone at hotmail
Lois's originals that my friend XXXX XXXX, Panel ## Area 20, Northern Illinois, sent to me before her passing. She ... was my service sponsor.
to peruse and then she was taken to court in Canada by Stepping Stones and lost. Sooo, the copy I had was confiscated by the foundation and all I got back was apologies from Ellie. Ellie and I lost touch with one another in early 2003 and I have no idea where she is today."
An email sent to this Past Delegate by a figure well known in AA historical circles (NOT the moderator of the AAHistoryLovers):
understand these hoarding-like behaviors about "the only" or "the first" or "so-and-so's copy"
disallow copying or re-publication or whatever might make any object of any real interest something preciously esoteric and difficult of access?
what's-His-name's Name do such fixations have to do with the Twelve Steps or, in fact, with any compassion or love or generosity-of-spirit or honesty or "carrying the message" or sobriety or -- pardon the expression -- "spirituality" of whatever ilk?
APPEARED: --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Ernest Kurtz wrote (kurtzern at umich.edu) > > Any attorneys familiar with copyright law -- especially the most > recent changes and ongoing discussions -- available out there, > please? If you are willing, please contact me off-list? As a > multiply copyrighted author as this electronic age comes into being, I > find things too confusing for this legal mere layperson. > > Thank you. > > ernie kurtz > > > - - - - > > From Glenn C., the moderator > > The seven known used copies of > Diary of Two Motorcycle Hobos, by Bill and > Lois Wilson, in the version edited by > Ellie van V. (Ottowa: Gratitude Press, 1998) > which are currently for sale are selling for: > > US$ 58.88, 60.00, 81.55, 175.00, 379.95, > 500.00, and 1,250.00 > > - - - - > > On Dec 13, 2009, at 11:06 PM, Jim M wrote: > > > This subject title is also known as "Diary of Two Motorcycle Hobos." > > The Copyright holder is clearly stated in the subject line and in > > the file I have on hand, however, I received a disturbing email from > > the Director, Annah Perch, of the Stepping Stones Foundation, ready > > to act on behalf of the Copyright holder. > > > > Does anyone here on AAHistoryLovers know how to get in touch with > > the Copyright holder, Ellie van V.? I wish to open a direct line of > > communication with Ellie van V. to talk with her about her title > > mentioned above. > >
> > I believe this title is an important part of pre AA history with a > > glimpse into the lives of our would be cofounders of Alcoholics > > Anonymous and Al-anon which can be viewed on this page: http://www.silkworth.net/freestuff.html > > . Any information you can provide would be of great assistance. Your > > comments on the above are also welcomed and will be of great help to > > me in my making the right decision. > >
> > If you wish, you can contact me directly by sending an email to: > >
> > "Jim M" > > (silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com) > > > > I thank you for your continued support for the service silkworth.net > > provides. > >
> > Yours in service, > > Ever greatful, > > Jim M, > > http://www.silkworth.net/ >
From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 7:16:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A letter from Huxley to Dr Humphry Osmond from 740 North Kings Road, Los Angeles
46. Dated 2 March 1954: Dear Humphry ... Three interesting things have turned up recently (following publication of Doors of Perception - one about a woman who experienced "a transfiguration of the outer world during her various pregnancies", which Huxley
surmises might have been caused by "a temporary upset in the sugar supply to the
brain"; another from someone in Seattle who "produced extraordinary changes in consciousness by fasting and going without sleep", and) ... Another stranger writes from Los Angeles. He is an ex-alcoholic (sic), who had ecstatic experiences in his early days of alcoholism and insists, in spite of what the Freudians may say, that the longing for ecstasy is a very strong motive in many alcoholics. He is a friend of Indians, knows some who have taken peyote but had a terrifying experience, and hints at knowing or being able to find out a good deal about the relationship between peyotism and alcoholism among Indians. I haven't seen this man, and doubt if we shall have time to do so before our departure. But (I hope you don't mind!) I have asked him to put down his information on paper and send it to you. I think it might be of considerable value. He suggests that it might be very interesting to try the effect of mescalin on alcoholics, past and present. And I think that, if your research project gets started (or even if it doesn't), this might be a fruitful thing to do..."
("Letters of Aldous Huxley", op cit). 1.) Who was Osmond? 2.) Is this correspondence with the LA alcoholic preserved in any archive? 3.) What was the research project alluded to? 4.) Did the mescalin experiment with alcoholics ever happen? Re Les C.'s reference to Lois's Swedenborgian roots, I recall reading somewhere that Lois attended a Quaker school in New York and that after Bill died there
was a Quaker-style meeting at Stepping Stones to celebrate his life. Apropos - Correspondence between Bill W. and Robert C., March 1950: "Dear Bill, I've been a member of AA for the past three years and doing a fairly
good job. In the meantime I've become interested in the Society of Friends (Quakers) and I seem to see a great kinship between the two movements. The Way of Life (sic) of both movements seems to fit so well into each other that I have become greatly interested in knowing just how much Quakerism effected not only the foundation of AA, but also what part, if any, it has played to date." Bill's reply: "Dear Robert C., The really amazing fact about Alcoholics Anonymous, and something I've never been able to comprehend, is that all religions see in our program a resemblance to themselves. For example, Catholic
theologians declare our Twelve Points to be in exact accord with their Ignatian
Exercises for Retreat, and though our book reeks of sin, sickness and death, the
Christian Science Monitor has often praised it editorially. And so it goes. Now
looking through Quaker eyes you, too, see us favorably. What happy circumstances these! Though the structure of our AA society was designed only by experience and what grace God might have given us, I must confess that in this aspect we do
bear a strong resemblance to the Quakers. We, too, speak of a group conscience. Our leadership is rotating. We have no paid preachers and once the early members
erected the basic principles, the authority seems to flow up from the mass instead of down through the top. I can assure you that I did not create this state of affairs, I merely reflected what had already appeared out of the groups."
reproduced in "As Bill Sees It" (page 116). Bill was widely read in spiritual and religious matters, but I wonder if he had
any direct experience of Quaker faith and practice? Laurie A. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6172. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Silkworth: The Little Doctor who Loved Drunks From: Chuck Parkhurst . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/21/2009 11:46:00 PM
"The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks" online. Several of the sites that are offering it for sale will allow one to go through the ordering process only to be informed at the conclusion that the book is on backorder or unavailable. That likely means they not be able to supply the book. I sent an email to AAHL a few days ago stating that the best place to find this book at a reasonable cost would be local "serenity shops" in larger metro areas, and this still seems to me the best route. I have found several copies at stores like this in the metro Phoenix area. In Service with Gratitude, Chuck Parkhurst IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6173. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: Huxley on Bill W. as social architect From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 10:22:00 AM
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6169 was an extremely lengthy criticism of me for saying, in Message 6165 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6165
no dogma. The one theological proposition is a power greater than one's self. Even this concept is forced on no one." That was a quote from Bill Wilson. I am sorry if, in Arthur's opinion, Bill Wilson got the AA position all wrong. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6174. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: More on Huxley etc From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/22/2009 11:34:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The original message #6171 from jenny andrews was about "a letter from Huxley to Dr Humphry Osmond," and Laurie asked: "Who was Osmond?" Osmond was one of the people who were into the LSD experiments at that time. His partners Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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