was September 20 1939.....
Don
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++++Message 5868. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Timeline of the First 25 A.A.
for dates of groups.
i.e. Philadelphia & Chicago.
Thanks
- - - -
From J. LOBDELL
> TIMELINE OF THE FIRST 25 A.A. GROUPS
> 14. Pennsylvania: Philadelphia (February 13,
was September 20 1939.....
Don
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++++Message 5869. . . . . . . . . . . . Group start date: how it is defined
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2009 3:36:00 PM
determine the beginning of a group. That's the basis for defining the
Fellowship (qualified by the date that Dr Bob had his last drink). It is
hair-splitting distinction. The long form of Tradition Three was first
Tradition" and stated "... Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for
sobriety may call themselves an A.A. Group."
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First AA groups: Philadelphia, Wash. State,
Wash.
D.C.
Philadelphia, Washington State, Washington D.C.
(cm53 at earthlink.net)
well, I don't know how important it is to quibble
over 2 weeks...BUT ...in regard to Philadelphia:
Jimmy arrived in Philly on February 13. The first
meeting was not held until Feb. 28. This date is
validated by an existing letter that Jimmy sent
to Clarence S. the next day (Feb. 29--leap year)
in which Jimmy describes having a meeting with 7
drunks the day before.
-cm
- - - -
From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)
BTW the 1st planning meeting in Phila was on Feb 29th,1940. It was a
leap year. Jimmy sent a letter confirming the date to Clarence "Snider"(He
misspelled Snyder) in Cleve.,Oh in a letter on file at the S.E. Pa. I.G.
Assn.
Archives.
There were alcoholics meeting in the office of Dr C Dudley Saul two
years before Jimmy brought AA to Philadelphia.(1938) This can be proven in
the documentation of John Park Lee. The meetings were not AA meetings but
were meetings of alcoholic patients of the good doctor.
Yours in Service,
Shakey Mike Gwirtz
Phila, Pa
- - - -
From: "J. Lobdell"
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)
The date Feb 13 is the date Jim B moved to
Philadelphia, not the date he formed a group.
Even so, fifteen days was pretty quick work.
- - - -
WASHINGTON STATE:
From: buck johnson
(buckjohnson41686 at yahoo.com)
Washington State, first meeting of the Seattle
Group, April 19, 1941 held at New Washington
Hotel. From "Our Stories Disclose ... A history
of western Washington Area of Alcoholics anonymous
1939-2002", Second Edition page 12 &13. Published
by western Washington Area of Alcoholics Anonymous,
Seattle 2004.
Material from "The History of Washington State
Alcoholics Anonymous 1941...1966, copyrighted
1966 by Everett K.
- - - -
WASHINGTON D.C.
From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)
AAHL members,
How many of these groups, not meetings, flourished and continued? How
many just met 1 or 2 times then stopped? How many can be confirmed and not
just here say? I ask this because I remember that Bill and Fitz both asked
Jimmy B to help out in Wash D.C. where AA was struggling and couldn't get
off the ground. I've read what WAIA (Wash Area I.G. Assn) lists as their
history and wonder what documentation they have that substantiates the "boys
of
38"
Yours in Service,
Shakey Mike Gwirtz
Phila, Pa
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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++++Message 5870. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA groups: Philadelphia,
Wash. State, Wash. D.C.
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/15/2009 9:13:00 PM
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On Wash DC it's the boys of '39 (and Nov at that) tho' Florence and Fitz
tried
independently in 1937 or 1938, apparently. The 1995 WAIA History is on the
net
w/o footnotes, tho' some letters are quoted. The Maryland Archives I saw at
Minneapolis in 2000 have some letters from Ned F., but I don't recall if
they
have anything useful.
> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
> From: cm53@earthlink.net
> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:26:33 -0400
> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First AA groups: Philadelphia, Wash. State,
Wash. D.C.
>
> Philadelphia, Washington State, Washington D.C.
>
> PHILADELPHIA:
>
> From: Cindy Miller
> (cm53 at earthlink.net)
>
> well, I don't know how important it is to quibble
> over 2 weeks...BUT ...in regard to Philadelphia:
> Jimmy arrived in Philly on February 13. The first
> meeting was not held until Feb. 28. This date is
> validated by an existing letter that Jimmy sent
> to Clarence S. the next day (Feb. 29--leap year)
> in which Jimmy describes having a meeting with 7
> drunks the day before.
>
> -cm
>
> - - - -
>
> From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)
>
> BTW the 1st planning meeting in Phila was on Feb 29th,1940. It was a
> leap year. Jimmy sent a letter confirming the date to Clarence "Snider"(He
> misspelled Snyder) in Cleve.,Oh in a letter on file at the S.E. Pa. I.G.
Assn. Archives.
>
> There were alcoholics meeting in the office of Dr C Dudley Saul two
> years before Jimmy brought AA to Philadelphia.(1938) This can be proven in
> the documentation of John Park Lee. The meetings were not AA meetings but
> were meetings of alcoholic patients of the good doctor.
>
> Yours in Service,
> Shakey Mike Gwirtz
> Phila, Pa
>
> - - - -
>
> From: "J. Lobdell"
> (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)
>
> The date Feb 13 is the date Jim B moved to
> Philadelphia, not the date he formed a group.
> Even so, fifteen days was pretty quick work.
>
> - - - -
>
> WASHINGTON STATE:
>
> From: buck johnson
> (buckjohnson41686 at yahoo.com)
>
> Washington State, first meeting of the Seattle
> Group, April 19, 1941 held at New Washington
> Hotel. From "Our Stories Disclose ... A history
> of western Washington Area of Alcoholics anonymous
> 1939-2002", Second Edition page 12 &13. Published
> by western Washington Area of Alcoholics Anonymous,
> Seattle 2004.
>
> Material from "The History of Washington State
> Alcoholics Anonymous 1941...1966, copyrighted
> 1966 by Everett K.
>
> - - - -
>
> WASHINGTON D.C.
>
> From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com)
>
> AAHL members,
> How many of these groups, not meetings, flourished and continued? How
> many just met 1 or 2 times then stopped? How many can be confirmed and not
> just here say? I ask this because I remember that Bill and Fitz both asked
> Jimmy B to help out in Wash D.C. where AA was struggling and couldn't get
> off the ground. I've read what WAIA (Wash Area I.G. Assn) lists as their
> history and wonder what documentation they have that substantiates the
"boys
of 38"
>
> Yours in Service,
> Shakey Mike Gwirtz
> Phila, Pa
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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uickAdd_062009 [15]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 5871. . . . . . . . . . . . The voices who cry for sex and more
sex
From: jacci.phillips . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/15/2009 7:22:00 AM
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Big Book page 69 1st paragraph:
"They think we do not have enough of it ...."
The question is who are "they"?
Thank you, Jacci
- - - -
From the moderator:
"They" are "the voices who cry for sex and
more sex" in the preceding sentence.
Think Sigmund Freud and the flappers of the
Roaring Twenties, to get a feel for what
that era of history was like.
The psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud's "The
Interpretation of Dreams" appeared in 1899.
He made a famous trip to lecture in the United
States (at Clark University) in 1909. He
developed his theory of the ego, the id, and
the superego in the 1920 essay "Beyond the
Pleasure Principle," and fully elaborated upon
it in "The Ego and the Id" in 1923.
Freud was part of a rebellion by some within
the western world during that period against
the extremely repressive sexual attitudes that
had flourished during the reign of Queen
Victoria (1837 to 1901). (And Roman Catholic
theologians had been urging total virginity
and abstinence from any kind of sex at all as
the route to Christian perfection for ALL
people ever since the period of the Cluniac
reformers c. 900 to 1100 A.D.)
Freud (and others like him) were rebelling
against all that during the early decades of
the twentieth century.
By the 1920's, young women in the western
world (sometimes called "flappers") stopped
wearing long skirts and started wearing short
skirts that allowed men to see their ankles
and legs, and even sometimes their knees.
They danced the Charleston and the Black
Bottom, and other dances which preachers of
the period denounced as sexually lascivious
and immoral. And some of them may in fact have
been a bit more adventurous sexually than
some of their mothers had been.
Anne Smith (Dr. Bob's wife), who was born
in 1881, was still wearing fairly long skirts
when she was a young woman, as can been seen
from her college photo, for example. By the
time Lois Wilson was a young woman, skirts
were a good deal shorter. And Lois openly
acknowledge in her reminiscences (as they
have been published) that she enjoyed sex,
which a middle class Victorian era woman
would never have said publically.
So some of the difference in sexual attitudes
were generational, but AA at the time the
Big Book was written had people of both
generations in it (Victorian and post-Victorian).
In the 1960's and early 1970's, there was
another wave of sexual rebellion in some parts
of the world (the US and the UK for example),
so the same sort of conflict once again arose
between those who favored fairly open and
tolerant sexual behavior, and those who preached
against that kind of "permissivism," as they
termed it, which they said was "destructive of
family values" and so on.
Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
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++++Message 5872. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA groups: Washington DC
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/16/2009 11:45:00 AM
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AA group founded in Washington DC founded in,
on, or near Oct 26 1939. AA referred four
alcoholics to Fitz and one of them was Harden C.
"The first contacts between Fitz and Harden C.
marks the beginning of AA in Washington DC."
The Washington Group: Foundations 1936 - 1941
P. 28 Revised and Expanded Edition Printed 1995
(WAIA) Archives Project Washington DC
Bill W recalling Fitz working with alcoholics
in DC in 1936. A.A. Fact sheet 14 p.6
- - - -
From G.C. the moderator: I am putting "October
28 or 29, 1939" on the Master List for the
date of the first AA meeting in Washington DC,
based on this document:
http://www.aa-dc.org/
http://aa-dc.org/waia/Wash-Book-21Oct2008.pdf
(page 31)
"When Fitz moved to Washington, he became the
southernmost representative of Alcoholics
Anonymous, and he was therefore responsible for
the territory south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Two of the four inquiries that were referred
to him came from Washington, one came from lower
Virginia, and one from North Carolina. One of
the Washington drunks referred to Fitz by this
letter was Hardin C. The first contact between
Fitz and Hardin C, marks the beginning of the
Washington Group. From this meeting of two men,
the Washington Group grew and continued to
expand over the decades."
"The date of the meeting was two or three days
after Fitz received the letter from New York
dated October 26, 1939. If the mail took two
days to arrive from New York, then the date
of the founding of the Washington Group was
October 28, 1939."
- - - -
In a message dated 7/16/2009,
jlobdell54@hotmail.com writes:
On Wash DC it's the boys of '39 (and Nov at
that) tho' Florence and Fitz tried independently
in 1937 or 1938, apparently. The 1995 WAIA
History is on the net w/o footnotes, tho'
some letters are quoted. The Maryland Archives
I saw at Minneapolis in 2000 have some letters
from Ned F., but I don't recall if they have
anything useful.
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++++Message 5873. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA meeting in Chicago
From: DONALD BENNITT . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/16/2009 8:53:00 PM
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I am glad someone brought this up, it prompted
me to investigate more, and ...... In the 1949
September issue of HERE'S HOW, The Chicago
newsletter, there is an announcement that the
first meeting was in Earl's house on September
21, 1939.
I have never seen this date before, the record
in the Chicago Archives is September 20 .....
I am going to change the date in my history
record.
In response to Arthurs' statement the date of
the first group should be when the second man
showed up, Dick R. got in touch with Earl in
August of 1938, Earl gave no actual day.
Don
- - - -
Original message from: DONALD BENNITT
(dbennitt at sbcglobal.net)
The Chicago date is incorrect.....September 13,
1939 is Sylvias' sober date, the first meeting
was September 20 1939.....
Don
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++++Message 5874. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Another of the slogans: Think
think think
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2009 12:12:00 PM
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I don't see any cause and effect association
between the IBM and AA slogans - it's seems
like speculation. Is there a non-anecdotal
source for corroboration that it "... was
adopted by AA members from a sign that came
with early IBM calculating machines ..."
T J Watson Sr coined the slogan "Think" in 1911
long before the forerunner companies evolved
into the name "International Business Machines"
in 1924. The slogan consisted simply of the
single word "Think."
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html [16]
Cheers
Arthur
- - - -
From: Jon Markle
(serenitylodge at mac.com)
Re: Another of the slogans: Think think think
This one was exlplained to me: Think it all
the way through.
Hugs for the trudge
Jon (Raleigh)
9/9/82
- - - -
From: "Glenn Chesnut" glennccc@sbcglobal.net
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
It seems to me that Arthur's warning should
be taken seriously.
It certainly appears that a lot of legend
and creative myth-making has built up around
this. I did a search on the internet for IBM
and the word "think," and in every single
case that word only appeared once. I could
find no example at all of an IBM sign that
had "Think Think Think" three times, let
alone with the fanciful explanations that
are sometimes given in AA legend about
what these were supposed to mean.
So to give a few examples out of many:
IBM Archives: THINK Sign
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html [16]
The "THINK" motto was developed by Thomas J. Watson, Sr., three years before
he
joined the forerunner of today's IBM in 1914. By the early 1930s, THINK
began to
take precedence over other slogans in IBM, and it appeared on signs such as
this
in IBM plants and offices, and in company publications, calendars and
photographs all over the world.
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2024.html
[17]
THINK was a one-word slogan developed by IBM founder Thomas J. Watson, Sr.
It
appeared in IBM offices, plants and company publications in the 1920s and in
the
early 1930s began to take precedence over other slogans in IBM. It
eventually
appeared in wood, stone and bronze, and was published in company newspapers,
magazines, calendars, photographs, medallions -- even New Yorker cartoons --
and
it remained for years the name of IBM's employee publication. You can still
find
echoes of Watson's motto in the brand name of IBM's popular notebook
computers:
the ThinkPad. This photograph shows a number of THINK signs rendered in a
variety of languages for display by IBM employees around the world.
http://home.comcast.net/~suptjud/IBMMachines.htm
http://www.timewarptoys.com/think.jpg
(on this webpage http://www.timewarptoys.com/gallery.htm )
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2184.html
[18]
It's 1940 and these 22 young men are operating an electric accounting
machine
installation somewhere in IBM. We know it's an IBM installation because
visible
in the photograph are an IBM job time recorder (for logging the start and
end of
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