Interviewith grace Murray Hopper interviewers: Beth Luebert, Henny Tropp date of interview: 5 July 1972 place of interview: nm

Computer Oral History Collection, 1969-1973, 1977 

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Grace Murray Hopper Interview, July 5, 1972, Archives Center, National Museum of American History 

 

 

Right. 

HOPPER: 

You still don't need it in the insurance business. You don't need any higher speed printer. 

TROPP: 

Right. 

HOPPER: 

So that I don't think that would come in. But that is what my first encounter with any 

possible future application was from my own father. 

TROPP: 

It's interesting because that was the… 

HOPPER: 

He had been in the business for years. 

TROPP: 

…the industry that probably first made use of the … 

HOPPER: 

Now whether he had ever mentioned it in New York, whether he had talked to people 

about it or not, I'll never know, because he didn't tell me. But he could have. He could 

have talked about what his daughter was doing and then mentioned the computers and 

that he thought they could be us able. It's quite possible. Because he was a man of some 

standing in the insurance industry. 

TROPP: 

Of course with the War on, again nobody could think ahead because nobody was going to 

have this kind of equipment available to them. 

HOPPER: 

He had retired before the War started, but had gone back after the men had all left, the 

younger men had left. He went back to (               ?) until they came back. But he was a 

man of some standing in the industry and people would listen to him…(voice fades out). 

For additional information, contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [e-mail]

 

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Computer Oral History Collection, 1969-1973, 1977 

31

 

Grace Murray Hopper Interview, July 5, 1972, Archives Center, National Museum of American History 

 

 

And it's rather interesting that actually some of the most forward looking moves have 

always been made, and are being made today, by the New England insurance companies, 

which you expect to be the most (conservative?). 

They are the most conserved in they pinch a dollar first, which also leads them into the 

most forward development. There's John Hancock, Etna Life and Casualty, Travelers was 

the first insurance company to go on line. It's the New England insurance companies that 

have taken some of the biggest steps forward for industry. And it's rather surprising, it's 

not exactly what you would have thought of as the most forward, research oriented 

industry at all. You would have thought it was just as conservative and immovable as 

anything, but it isn't, it's a very forward looking group, surprisingly so. 

I also think some of the people in radar down at MIT, a large number of them were Bell 

Telephone engineers on military leave. And I think they talked very early in the game to 

Bell Labs and Bell Telephone. I think there was a very definite communication of the 

concepts of electronics and of the computers from Radiation Lab and from Radar Lab to 

Bell Telephone, very early in the game. 

TROPP: 

Of course Bell Lab had already been in the computer field. The complex calculator and 

then later the machines … (voice fades out). 

HOPPER: 

Yes, but I think the electronics may have well come via MIT. Very much so. Not the 

people like (Stibitz?) and so on, but from the engineering level. The engineers themselves 

went back with those concepts, which may have made the difference. 

Now I know one in (Bell        ?) Pennsylvania, for instance, that came back from the 

Pacific very definitely with the concepts of electronics. He had been in radar. 

TROPP: 

Who was this? 

HOPPER: 

(Helberstat?). 

TROPP: 

(Helberstat?)? 

HOPPER: 

For additional information, contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [e-mail]

 

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Computer Oral History Collection, 1969-1973, 1977 

32

 

Grace Murray Hopper Interview, July 5, 1972, Archives Center, National Museum of American History 

 

 

Yes. He came back with many of those concepts into the Bell Telephone in Pennsylvania. 

In fact, that whole group that was in my Navy unit, a very large percentage of them are 

Bell engineers that had been in radar and electronics during the War and brought it back 

to Bell in Pennsylvania. 

And it wasn't alone that they did the work, but they brought back an acceptance of the 

concepts. So that when the things began to happen, there was an audience ready to accept 

those ideas. This is something that is missing today. 

You see, during the War there were so many of us and so many new things, that we were 

conditioned to accepting new concepts. They didn't surprise us, we expected them. 

Now today, you'll find you will find we're back to the old opposition, we've always done 

it this way. 

And unwillingness to accept new concepts. They may think we are moving forward, 

technologically today, but I find far more resistance today, then there was during, and just 

after the War when we all realized that we were in a new world and a new world was 

coming. 

And you will find more unwillingness now to accept new concepts then you would then. 

People have closed their minds, I don't know why, but they have. The hardest thing I 

have to do is not to make a new development, it's to get people to listen, and to change 

their minds. 

Because they have gone back to the (inure sure?) of, doing in life, what do you call it, in 

ordinary life when they formed habits anything new, was going to mean learning 

something new, or adjusting to something new. Changing things, and they just don't want 

to do it. People will instinctively opposite it, anything that changes their habits. 

TROPP: 

It's interesting, because the generation we are talking about, is a generation that's grown 

up with constant change. Constant enervation, and it seems hard to recognize that they 

are like the medieval, as protecting their citadel. 

HOPPER: 

The roughest time I have is going on around, as I have this year, I've been to about 175 

colleges and schools this year for DPMA and ACF. The young people are honest. They 

have just learned something. They have just gained command of it and I come along and 

tell them they are going to learn something different. 

For additional information, contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [e-mail]

 

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