Microsoft Word Elisabeth Kubler-Ross On Death And Dying doc

 
CHAPLAIN: You had to hold it inside? 
 
DOCTOR: Is your wife as grief-stricken now as she was then? Or has she kind of recuperated from 
this? 
 
PATIENT: You can never tell. 
 
DOCTOR: Is she a person who doesn't communicate? 
 
PATIENT: She doesn't communicate about that. She, she's a good communicator, she's a teacher. 
 
DOCTOR: What kind of a woman is she? 
 
PATIENT: Well, she's a heavy-set woman, full of good spirits, the kind of person that gets a 
standing ovation at the beginning of every class period and gets a very valuable gift at the end. 
 
DOCTOR: That means something, you know. 
 
CHAPLAIN: Those are hard to come by. 
 
PATIENT: That's right. 
 
DOCTOR: Yes. 
 
PATIENT: She's also a person that goes all out for me and the family. 
 
DOCTOR: She sounds to me like a person who could talk about those things with a little additional 
help. 
 
PATIENT: Yes, you would think so, wouldn't you. 
 
DOCTOR: Are you afraid to talk about it or is she inhibited to do it? 
 
PATIENT: Say that again. 
 
DOCTOR: Which one of the two of you prevents such a conversation? 
 
PATIENT: Well, we actually did have conversations. And her answer was to go overseas and raise 
the children. So she went over two years in a row in the summer, including this past summer. And, 
of course, naturally our son-in-law paid the way. 
 
The grandchildren were with us until December and then they went back. And then Mrs. H. went 
over there in December for the holidays, then she went back this summer for a month. She was 
going to stay two months but on account of me she stayed only one month, because it was during 
the period of my convalescence. 
 

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CHAPLAIN: I was wondering how much conversation that you want to have about your condition 
with this other on your wife's mind and her concern about her responsibility for the grandchildren. 
Whether this had had an effect then on your ability to share or maybe your feeling that you 
shouldn't share and burden her with anything else. Has there been any of that feeling? 
 
PATIENT: Well, there are other problems between her and me. Although, as I say, she is one of 
these very outgoing people, well, still I'm concerned, she feels that I have not done a good enough 
job myself. 
 
DOCTOR: In terms of what? 
 
PATIENT: Well, I had not earned enough money. And naturally with four children, why, she 
would feel that way. She feels that I ought to be like the son-in-law, you know. She also feels that I 
was responsible for not bringing up my youngest son well enough. Because of the fact that he has a 
known hereditary trait. And yet even till now she blames me. 
 
DOCTOR: She blames you for that? 
 
PATIENT: Blames me for that. 
 
DOCTOR: What is he doing? 
 
PATIENT: He was in the Marines but they discharged him. 
 
DOCTOR: What is he doing now? 
 
PATIENT: Well, he was supposed to be applying for a job, his old job as a stockboy. 
 
CHAPLAIN: And your other two children? 
 
PATIENT: Well, my second son, she blames me for him too. Because he's a little slow in school. 
She felt that if somebody would get in there and pitch, you know, she's just a dynamo of energy, 
that he would have been right on top of the heap. Of course I think that sooner or later she will 
realize that he wouldn't be. It's just a matter of heredity. The first son is doing fairly well because 
she's pushing him and he's just finishing his degree in electronics. 
 
CHAPLAIN: Because she's pushing him? 
 
PATIENT: Well, no, he's very brilliant, he's the only bright one, you might say, outside of the 
daughter. 
 
CHAPLAIN: Well, you mentioned too the heredity. Which side do 
 
(P86) 
 
you think the weakness comes from? You gave me the impression you think it comes from your 
side. Or your wife suggests it's from your side. 

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PATIENT: Well, I don't know what she suggests on that score. I don't think she feels it's heredity. I 
think she feels it's just not a matter of me getting in there and doing enough work. In my spare time 
I should do that. I should not only be earning more money, which has been the theme of our lives. 
She will help me to any extent, but she will always blame me for not producing my part. I should 
be earning fifteen thousand a year minimum. 
 
DOCTOR: I have a feeling what Mr. H. is really saying is that his wife is such a peppy and 
energetic woman she kind of wants you and her children to be the same way. 
 
PATIENT: Exactly. 
 
DOCTOR: And that she can't really take it well when you are not like she is 
 
PATIENT: Right. 
 
DOCTOR: And that means peppy and energetic. And then she says look at my son-in-law, he 
makes a lot of money and he's probably very peppy and energetic. 
 
PATIENT: Not only the son-in-law but everybody else she knows. 
 
DOCTOR: Which would, I think, be relevant for Mr. H., the patient, because when he's sick and 
when he gets more weak 
 
PATIENT: Beg your pardon? 
 
DOCTOR: When you are sick and you are getting weaker you will be less peppy and less energetic 
and make less money. 
 
PATIENT: In fact, that's what I told her at one point. When I, when I got about forty, you know, I 
was slowing down a little bit and I said to myself, boy, if things are this way now imagine what it 
will be then because she gets peppier. 
 
DOCTOR: It will be terrible, huh? 
 
PATIENT: Because she gets peppier and peppier. 
 
DOCTOR: What this means, though, for you is that this is going to be harder. Is she kind of 
intolerant of people who would have to sit in a wheelchair? 
 
PATIENT: She's extremely intolerant of people who aren't brilliant enough. 
 
DOCTOR: Well-when you are physically weak you can still be brilliant, you know 
 
PATIENT: Yes. 
 
DOCTOR: But is she intolerant of people who are physically unable to do things 

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