Mr chairman: Good morning. I welcome Mr Vatskalis, and invite you to introduce the officers accompanying you, and if you wish to make an opening statement on behalf of the Department of Health and Families. Minister vatskalis’ portfolios

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
Ms ANDERSON: Yes, thank you, Mr Chairman. Minister, I thank you for listening to people and 
changing the facilities to go where it is not in a built-up area.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: You are welcome.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Just on secure facilities, I have a couple of questions. As you can see, I have put a 
line, because I was going to ask you questions on the consultation process, and this is coming 
straight from the people that I represented in parliament with the petition.
 
 
One of the questions that I have is, what research can you point to that led to your decision to start 
funding secure care facilities?
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: Well, the reason we have to have secure care facilities is because they are brought 
up time after time after time in court, when actually we cannot keep people, that they need treatment. 
These are not criminals, these are people actually with severe mental problems, or develop a 
prognosis in an accident, that, because of their condition, they stop taking their drugs and their health 
would deteriorate, and we have to put them in a place where we can look after them. until we 
establish a pattern of treatment through medication in order to rehabilitate back into the community.
 
 
It has to be somewhere near a community, it cannot be in the middle of nowhere, because our 
purpose is actually how to rehabilitate them back to the community.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Was this triggered by any kind of research, is the question that I am asking, 
minister, was there any research done?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: Both in the Families and Children’s division, and in my division through the Mental 
Health and the Age and Disability program, there was extensive literature review and look at how 
these issues are dealt with in other jurisdictions. Other jurisdictions have facilities such as these, and 
it was a missing piece of our services system.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: And one thing I want to add, I mean, I was asked many times in the media, how I 
would like to have one in my back yard. But as a matter of fact, I have got one very close to my 
house, where it is actually a house that has a number of people with mental problems. They are 
looked after by a non-government organisation. I did not even know it was there until I became the 
minister, and I asked for a briefing about these kinds of facilities, I found one was about 250 metres 
from my house.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: The only reason why I am asking these questions is, what about the health service 
and the network support systems that we already have in place outside of this new facility? What will 
happen to these organisations, or people who are delivering the service now? What will happen to 
them, and how much money will be drawn away from these services?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: Those are services that we still absolutely need. They are sort of, I guess, lower level 
security supported accommodation, and they provide a whole range of therapeutic services that our 
clients still require. The secure care is just for a point in time in, you know, some of the clients lives 
where they need to be contained in order to get through their therapeutic courses.
 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: In secure care facilities, not only the facilities that will be established in Alice Springs 
and Darwin outside the hospital, there will actually be beds in the hostel as well. So, there will be five 
in Darwin, six in Alice Springs, and that will be in the hospital grounds, and the other will be secure 
facilities outside the hospital grounds.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Yes, but minister, there are people that look after people with mental illness outside 
of a secure facility. I have got a cousin that is actually in that area, and he has been in that area for 
years. So what does that mean for him? Does he then go into the secure facility and no longer mix 
with normal society, or will he stay where he is?
 

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ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – 17 JUNE 2010 
 
Mr VATSKALIS: In the hospital, we put people who really need to be treated. In the secure facility, 
we put people that actually have a problem, but they fail to maintain their medication and, because of 
that, they develop other aggressiveness or behaviours that can harm themselves. These will be the 
people that will go there. People actually currently receiving care outside these facilities will continue 
to do so, and no organisation will lose money. These are all new monies for the new facilities.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Okay, thank you, minister. The other question is, will secure care facilities hold 
people who would otherwise go into the criminal justice system as well as people who would 
otherwise go into the health and social services? Will the secure care facilities be used to house 
people who would otherwise go to Don Dale Juvenile Detention Centre, prison, or volatile substance 
use people?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: Predicting exactly who will be in there is difficult. The clients that we know already, that 
are, you know, almost queued, if you like, to go in when we have got these up and running, are not 
clients of the criminal justice system or the Don Dale system, so the young people will be people who 
are in need of protection, as opposed to detention for crimes.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Is it the juveniles who have mental illness, or just those that need protection?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: Generally speaking, they would be young people who are making unsafe decisions and 
who are difficult for foster parents or foster families to control.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Okay. Another question, minister, what will limit the length of stays in these 
facilities, and who will oversight the operation of these facilities?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: We are still working on the admission and the discharge processes relating to the 
facilities. In terms of the second tier, the 16 beds in remote rural Alice Springs and the 16 beds in the 
Top End, there will be a panel of health professionals who would make decisions about when people 
need the service and when people can leave the service, or are ready to be re-integrated into the 
community. In addition to that, the adult guardian for the adults would need to be happy with that as 
their service option and, in addition to that a magistrate would need to decide it was appropriate to 
kerb their freedom for that period of time in order to have them use the facility.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Minister, will there be any legislative changes?
 
 
Ms CLEARY: Yes, there will need to be legislation to enable the containment, to balance the human 
rights and the therapeutic needs.
 
 
Ms ANDERSON: Thank you, minister.
 
 
Mr WOOD: Minister, does the department employ any psychologists specifically for remote areas in 
the Northern Territory?
 
 
Ms HENDRY: Bronwyn Hendry, Director of Mental Health. We do provide psychologists to provide 
services in the remote areas, although most of our staff who work full-time in the remote mental health 
specialist teams, are either nursing staff augmented by visiting medical specialists, and some 
psychology visiting services. But, generally speaking, the majority of the team are nurses.
 
 
Mr WOOD: Minister, do you think there is a need, considering some of the issues out in remote areas 
especially with regards to suicide, that the government does employ full-time psychologist or 
psychologists in remote communities, for remote communities?
 
 
Ms HENDRY: There are a number of initiatives at the moment that are increasing the use of allied 
health staff in remote communities. Some of those are federal government initiatives, including the 

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