Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
Yüklə 25,47 Mb.
|
|
For a brief period, you can view the photo here: http://www.silkworth.net/images/Un_Sash_and_Pope.JPG I'm pretty sure Sackville M. is in this photo with the Pope, I believe at the
Pope's left hand side. I really am unable to recognize the person at the Pope's right hand side. Maybe
some one here can tell us more about this photo. Yours in service, Jim M.,
http://www.silkworth.net/ - - - - See message #6766 from Laurie Andrews http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6766 > > The May-June 2004 issue of "Markings", the AA GSO Archives newsletter, records the visit to Rome in 1972 of two Irish and English AA members for an audience with Pope Paul VI. He presented them with a medallion of the Good Shepherd, which is on display in the archives at GSO New York. There was (and maybe still
is) a photograph of the Pope with the AA members, Sackville M. and Travers C.,
at Stepping Stones. The visit to Rome was suggested by Archbishop Enrici because, he told a convention at Bristol, England, in 1971, the Vatican "was poorly acquainted with the work of the Fellowship". Sackville's story appeared
in the Big Book under the title "The Career Officer" (page 411 in "Experience, Strength and Hope").
From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/17/2010 12:21:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The long awaited book published by the multilith's owner, Ken R., and available at _www.Abookman.com_ (http://www.Abookman.com) is finally out and I think it will cause some interest amongst the members of AAHL. I was wondering if the members of AAHL who are familiar with the handwriting of the early members of AA can now identify who wrote what in the changes to the pre-publication in this "Holy Grail." How do we, as members of AAHL, go about
piecing it all together by using AAHL as a resource; utilizing members who are familiar with the handwriting without making dozens of posts and making sure that what is said is proof positive and not conjecture. In speaking with Keith of A Book Man .Com, several years back , it was discussed that a select group of AA Historians including Mitchell K, Mel B, Ernie K, and others would get a chance to review the multilith and identify who wrote what before this "book that started it all" was published. That didn't happen. I have only skimmed through the many pages and am so far much impressed by this book which now sits on my coffee table. I await the comments of my friends at AAHL. I am sure that this book will be much talked about at the NAW
later on in the month. I will take my copy there if for no other reason than to have my friend Mel B sign it if he will. I hope to see you all there too. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa. USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6878. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s two books on philosophy at Towns? From: MattD . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/16/2010 7:34:00 AM
and the Varieties of Religious Experience - - - - See Message #5955 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5955 From "mdingle76" of St. Francis and the 12&12 (or AA for that matter). I can't shed any light on the wording of the prayer or the mistaken author of the prayer (I thought it was St. Francis myself till a few years ago). But I thought I'd mention a little about Bill's love for Francis (as told to me by Tom Powers — 12&12 editor/co-author). Tom said that after Bill had his famous spiritual experience in Towns that Ebby went back to the Oxford Group telling them about what happened to Bill and asked what he should do to help him. They said bring him 2 books. Many people in AA know that this is when the book The Varieties of a Religious Experience hit the scene, but many people don't know that Ebby also brought Bill another book: The Little Flowers of St. Francis.
TWO OF THE VERSIONS OF THE LITTLE FLOWERS OF ST. FRANCIS ONLINE ARE:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/ugolino/flowers.toc.html =============================================
(getting that book at that time) lead to Bill's love for Francis. The Little Flowers of St. Francis has a number of little stories, and many of them telling of sudden mystical/spiritual experience. It is known that Francis had a Bill W. experience (or really the other way around) and then suffered from depression afterwards.
and after-effects of spiritual experience (for they both had this kind of experience themselves and they both had years of what we would now be mislabel as "mental illness" that followed).
me but Tom Powers quotes Francis in it saying something like, "After my conversion, I've never been well." Bill also studied Francis on the money front — using the modern day Franciscan virtue of "poverty" for the society of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Francis is that Bill used to say that Francis was the patron saint of the society of Alcoholics Anonymous. Francis may be more important to out movement than we know?
> > Has anyone ever determined what the second book was that Bill was supposedly reading at Towns? I assume one of the books that Silkworth refers to would had to have been Varieties of Religious Experience. > > John B. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6879. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s two books on philosophy at Towns? From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/16/2010 8:46:00 AM
The
last line indicates that Silkworth had other patients who had "initiated such
groups," so one of those presumably was Bill. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "jax760" > > Has anyone ever determined what the second book was that Bill was supposedly reading at Towns? I assume one of the books that Silkworth refers to would had to have been Varieties of Religious Experience. > > John B. > __________________________________ > > Reclamation of the Alcoholic > W.D. Silkworth > Medical Record, April 21, 1937. > > http://www.silkworth.net/silkworth/reclamation.html > > Case IV (Hospital No. 1152). - A broker, who had earned as much as $25,000 a year, and had come, through alcohol, to a position where he was being supported by his wife, presented himself for treatment carrying with him two books on philosophy from which he hoped to get a new inspiration: His desire to discontinue alcohol was intense, and he certainly made every effort within his own capabilities to do so. Following the course of treatment in which the alcohol and toxic products were eliminated and his craving counteracted, he took
up moral psychology. At first, he found it difficult to rehabilitate himself financially, as his old friends had no confidence in his future conduct. Later he was given an opportunity, and is now a director in a large corporation. He gives part of his income to help others in his former condition, and he has gathered about him a group of over fifty men, all free from their former alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and "moral psychology." To such patients we recommend "moral psychology," and in those of our patients who have joined or initiated such groups the change has been spectacular. >
++++Message 6880. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Bill W''s two books on philosophy at Towns? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/16/2010 9:05:00 AM
by Shep and (presumably) Ebby. > From: jax760@yahoo.com > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:57:09 +0000 > Subject: Bill W's two books on philosophy at Towns? > > Has anyone ever determined what the second book was that Bill was supposedly reading at Towns? I assume one of the books that Silkworth refers to would had to have been Varieties of Religious Experience. > > John B. > __________________________________ > > Reclamation of the Alcoholic > W.D. Silkworth > Medical Record, April 21, 1937. > > http://www.silkworth.net/silkworth/reclamation.html > > Case IV (Hospital No. 1152). - A broker, who had earned as much as $25,000 a year, and had come, through alcohol, to a position where he was being supported by his wife, presented himself for treatment carrying with him two books on philosophy from which he hoped to get a new inspiration: His desire to discontinue alcohol was intense, and he certainly made every effort within his own capabilities to do so. Following the course of treatment in which the alcohol and toxic products were eliminated and his craving counteracted, he took
up moral psychology. At first, he found it difficult to rehabilitate himself financially, as his old friends had no confidence in his future conduct. Later he was given an opportunity, and is now a director in a large corporation. He gives part of his income to help others in his former condition, and he has gathered about him a group of over fifty men, all free from their former alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and "moral psychology." To such patients we recommend "moral psychology," and in those of our patients who have joined or initiated such groups the change has been spectacular. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6881. . . . . . . . . . . . Font used for initial capitals in Big Book? From: schaberg43 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/19/2010 11:24:00 AM
typeface
used for the capital letters on the first word of each chapter in the Big Book.
(NOTE: the first three editions are all identical – the fourth edition font is
changed a bit, although it is clearly trying to mimic the font that was used in the first three editions.) My own resource provided the following reply: Not a clue, I'm afraid. It's probably closest to Snell Roundhand, but it might
even be hand-drawn. Remember how type was made then -- lead poured into a mold that had been created
with hand-carved punches. This doesn't look like it was created in this way, and
certainly not with the precision and grace that is normally seen with hand-carved letters. Initial caps originated in the hand-lettered texts of the monasteries, were almost always unique to the copyist, and always hand-drawn. Not sure if houses had their own unique set of initial caps, or drew them as needed, but it wouldn't surprise me. A few things lead me to think that this might be "home-made." First, the stroke width is roughly the same -- there is no variability in the
bottom or sides. Most professional calligraphers used a broad or flat nib pen to
give their letters character and distinction as they turned the pen throughout the creation of the letter. What stroke variability there is appears here to be more like the pressure one puts on a normal pen when writing, rather than a formal calligraphic letter. Second, the beginning of the letter (left side) starts with a tiny serif, as if the ink gathered at the point of the pen before it was applied to the paper, but is heavy, almost like a little ball on the end of the letter (right-side), where the letterer left the pen on the page too long. Again, no self-respecting calligrapher would let that happen. I'm winging this a bit here since I don't have my type references and I've been
out of the design game for years. That said, I'm fairly confident in my observations. If it turns out to be some famous set of initial caps hailed throughout the world as the highest form of typographic art, I will blush accordingly! Does anyone on this list (or a graphic designer friend of yours) have any better
ideas on what this typeface might be? Thanks, Old Bill IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6882. . . . . . . . . . . . One thousand of us and our families From: Geoff Smith . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/19/2010 7:33:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi all, In Bill's story, it mentions that 'in a western town there are thousands of members," yet when the book was written there were fewer than 100.
1st edition. What is the explanation for this mismatch? Many thanks, Geoff - - - - From Glenn C. the moderator: I think Geoff is referring to the passage found on pp. 15-16 in the current (4th) edition: "In one western city and its environs there are one thousand of us and our families. We meet frequently so that newcomers may find the fellowship they seek. At these informal gatherings one may often see from 50 to 200 persons. We are growing in numbers and power." According to my notes, the "western city" was Cleveland, and in the second printing of the 1st edition, among the changes made: On page 25 line 23, 80 of us was changed to 500 of us. And on page 25 line 26, 40-80 persons was changed to 50-200 persons. Later on, in the third printing of the 1st edition, on page 25 line 23, 500 of us was changed to 1000 of us. Is this the passage that you are asking about, Geoff? There is still the question of the Big Book's original statement that in 1939
there were 80 people in the Cleveland area (even if we count families as well as
the alcoholics themselves), with 40 to 80 people attending "informal gatherings" there. Has this group ever looked at those numbers? Are they are all possible? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6883. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W. - 1944 - many roads to recovery
From: tomper87 . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/16/2010 7:02:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From: "tomper87" and "Dov" and Laurie Andrews asked "when and where did Bill Wilson say/write in 1944 'there
are many roads to recovery'?" White was quoting Bill W from comments in the Sept 1944 Grapevine to a Grapevine article by Philip Wylie. Wylie (who was not a member of A.A.) had written about
his own recovery and part of Bill's response was: "It is tradition among us that the individual has the unlimited right to his own
opinion on any subject under the sun. He is compelled to agree with no one; if he likes, can disagree with everyone. And, indeed, when on a 'dry bender,' many AAs do. Therefore, no AA should be disturbed if he cannot fully agree with all of Mr. Wylie's truly stimulating discourse. Rather shall we reflect that the roads to recovery are many; that any story or theory of recovery from one who
has trod the highway is bound to contain much truth. Mr. Wylie's article is like
an abundance of fresh fruit. Perhaps we should take the advice of the housewife who says, 'We shall eat all we can, and then can what we can't.'"
http://silkworth.net/grapevine/bwresponsetopw.html - - - - For Philip Wylie's original article (which Bill W. was commenting on) see AAHistoryLovers Message 354 (and also 374 which seems to be a duplicate): The A.A. Grapevine, September 1944 - Philip Wylie Jabs A Little Needle http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/354 From: Jim Blair The early issues of the GV carried a substantial number of articles written by non AAs. Of of the earliest was this article by Philip Wylie which caused a "bit of a stir" and Bill W. responded with an article which can be found in "Language of the Heart." The A.A. Grapevine, September 1944 Philip Wylie Jabs A Little Needle Into Complacency An editor of The Grapevine called on me and asked me for a piece. He asked because I recently reviewed a book about a drunk - Charles Jackson's The Lost Weekend. He thought that what I'd said in the review showed I had an interest in alcoholism. I have. The editor didn't know that I am one. I quit solo - by which I mean that no organized group like AA was around to assist or advise. But I had plenty of assistance and expert advice, much of which curiously parallels what I know now about AA. To reach a point where I can
say that I am not drinking and have not been drinking for a long time, took years. It took an unconscionable amount of energy. It left me with a few ideas that I'd like to pass along. It left me with a couple of hunches that I'd like to ask about. The things I did are, maybe, the things that others are doing. I was psychoanalyzed twice. I studied psychology after that - Jungian, Freudian, Alderian, behavioristic. Then I read all the basic religious books. Then I read
the philosophies. Then I went to insane asylums and looked at them. Here are some of the ideas that came my way: One of the "reasons" I had given myself for drinking was that I was then able to
do easily a great many things other men could do sober and I could not. So I did
them sober. I did everything without a drink that I had done when drunk, excepting for the destructive trouble making ones. Everything. That was useful to me.
Charles Jackson has come as close as any writer ever did. Every fear, phobia and compulsion entered my head - and not so always just when I was hung over. So I got into the habit - a suggestion of a psychiatrist - of writing down in detail the nature and formidability of these mental distresses. Maybe the fact that I am a writer gave that system special merit. But I found I couldn't endlessly retail the awfulness of my obsessions - sitting perfectly comfortably in a quiet
room. On paper - they weren't gigantic and overwhelming. They grew silly. They
made me laugh at myself and do deflated themselves. Dr. Jung himself suggested that I look at a few asylums. I don't know why until
I made the visit. Then it became evident to me that the inmates were not like me
at all. Thus I got to know that my alcoholism was not the onslaught of insanity
- and I got to know I had been subconsciously afraid of precisely that. The Jungians, incidentally, give a different name to the "religious experience" which you discuss in AA. They arrive at that "experience" by different methods - methods which conform to their scientific psychological technique. They call the
spiritual quantum which gives rise to the experience a "transcendent symbol."
Naturally, I haven't room to describe the method here: it would take more than
this magazine - a book perhaps. But, whether you call it a religious experience or a transcendant symbol does not matter - and it may be of interest to alcoholics who are semi-knowingly engaged in protesting formal, churchly "religions" to learn that there are thoroughly abstract, non-religious routes to the same, universal, human contact with inner integrity, truth, and the "nature
of nature itself." Of course, I read everything about alcoholism I could find. And I became interested in the care and condition of alcoholic friends. Among them I noticed two who still make me wonder about the possible relationship of epilepsy to alcoholism in some cases. These two friends of mine had had fits. They both had
the epileptic "picture" on the electroencephalogram. The new drugs that avert or
postpone epileptic attacks seemed to aid these two men in stopping their alcohol
addiction. I know that if I were a doctor - and an alcoholic - I'd investigate Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|