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| December Sixth
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939 S. Gramercy Place Los Angeles, California Dear Mrs. Livoni : At a meeting of the Executive Committee of the Los Angeles Group of Alcoholics Anonymous, held Dec. 4th, 1941, it was decided that your attendance at group meetings was no longer desired until certain expla- nations and plans for the future were made to the satisfaction of this committee. This action has been taken for reasons which should be most apparent to yourself. It was decided that, should you so desire, you may appear before members of this committee and state your attitude. This opportunity will be afforded you between now and December 15th, 1941. You may communicate with us at the above address by that date. In case you do not wish to appear, we shall consider the matter closed and that your membership is terminated. ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, Los Angeles Group Mortimer Joseph Frank Randall Edmund Jussen Jr. Fay D. Loomis Al Marineau
the power of choice From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2010 12:26:00 PM
(draft?) copy of the Big Book given to Marty by Dr Harry Tiebout ("Women Suffer Too" p 200 4th ed, AA Comes of Age pg 3 and 18). Bill W further states that the group that Marty and Grennie initially started at Blythewood Sanitarium in Connecticut might qualify (to some) as AA's third group (as opposed to Cleveland). Marty is described in AA Comes of Age as holding (in 1957) "the longest sobriety record in AA for her sex." The 4th edition Big Book was published in 2001 as was the excellent biography "Mrs Marty Mann" by Sally and David Brown, which reveals that Marty returned to drinking somewhere between 1959 and the mid-1960s. Untold numbers of people sobered up prior to the founding of AA and publication of the Big Book and untold numbers of people sober up outside of AA today. While many AA members may have tried other means of sobering up before achieving success in AA it doesn't stand that those other means are unsuccessful with other alcoholics. Religions have been playing a long and thankless (and all too often derided) role in helping people find sobriety. William White's excellent book "Slaying The Dragon" should be required reading for any serious AA historian for providing a superb history of addiction treatment and recovery in America. It may not rise to the entertainment level of a Joe and Charley tape but will provide well researched and corroborated history about alcoholism. To borrow an excerpt: "What is most striking in this American history of addiction recovery is the incredible diversity of styles and media through which people have resolved their problematic relationships with alcohol and other drugs. Science is confirming Bill Wilson's 1944 observation that there are many roads to recovery." Cheers Arthur ___________________________________________ From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Charley Bill Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:54 AM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Most alcoholics ... have lost the power of choice
> > Hello Group, > > One possible reason: Three pages earlier Bill says "But what about the > real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may > not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his > drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor > consumption, once he starts to drink." Is it possible that a person > could be alcoholic that has not lost the "power of choice in drink"? > Could they wake up one day and realize they have begun to lose control > and if they continue drinking the way they have been they might become > a real alcoholic? It is the individual that makes the diagnoses they > are alcoholic, not any of us. Maybe Bill left a way in for the person > who truly believed they were alcoholic but had not lost the power of > choice in drink. > > Charles from Wisconsin > > Hooray for Charles! I usually point out that a person may be an 'incipient alcoholic' in my Joe and Charlie Workshops. It also provides a way for someone who is worried about their drinking but not ready to accept the label of alcoholic to join us in AA. They soon seem to forget that they ever objected to the label and enter into the Fellowship wholeheartedly.
be useful to state the obvious: No one has ever achieved sobriety by using the draft versions, but hundreds of thousands in countries all over the globe have done so using the approved editions? I certainly agree with Old Ben, it couldn't be better for us used to learning from books made from paper. However, different media is needed for many of our newcomers who did not grow up with books.
pigsfly.com) This would suggest that no one got sober in AA before the first edition came out of the bindery. I know this is an area of some controversy, but I think the ideas embodied in the big book are more important than the specific way they are fixed in print, and the next 25 years is going to be nearly as important and difficult in the way we tell our story to a new population as the first 25 years were.
just tried to eat Fred Allen's Treadmill to Oblivion). It is full of legacy media. But I'm no less than ecstatic that I can buy a copy of the big book and have it downloaded to my kindle for 99 cents. I realize that not everyone has kindles, and a significant percentage of our new members have nothing left to lose and therefore won't have an eBook. But for others, this is a way to get our literature in the hands of those interested for a pittance with no one having to underwrite the cost. This is one of the most anonymous methods of delivery and it can be read in public without anyone besides the reader knowing what is being read. For those on the path who are not yet willing to embrace their alcoholism and are afraid of being labeled, this is a great improvement over paper. Visual methods are going to become more important than textual methods; perhaps they already are. Those of us with an interest in how we got here should play a major role in helping to guide the way to where we're going. The way the world embraces information is changing. I hope we can find the right path to change with it.
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/29/2010 12:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bill W wrote the forewords to the first and second editions. It would be very interesting to discover who did the third and fourth edition forewords. The 2006 General Service Conference approved a change to the Preface of the 4th edition so that it reads "Therefore the first part of this volume, describing the AA recovery program, has been left largely untouched in the course of revisions made for the second, third and fourth editions." The word "largely" was added to correct the erroneous impression that the basic text had not been changed over the prior editions. Cheers Arthur - - - - From: rvnprit Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Author of Forewords
in the case of the Fourth Edition of the Big Book, the G.S.O. editors would prepare or coordinate new material such as the cover and jacket design, jacket copy, preface and foreword to the Fourth Edition, as well as make changes to the title page, contents page, factual material that appears in footnotes and introductions to personal stories. An Advisory Action of the 2002 General Service Conference recommended that the sentence "Fundamentally, though, the difference between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format," in the last paragraph of the foreward to the Fourth Edition be deleted in future printings of the Big Book.
Tom Hickcox > The Fourth Edition of Alcoholics Anonymous has a preface and four forewords. > > Are there any hard data that show who the authors of these are? > I note that the Foreword to the Fourth Edition was immediately > changed, presumably as a result of the brouhaha from equating online > meetings with face to face meetings. I have no idea what the > approval process was for this change, which would be another question. > > So, please, what do the records show of the authors to the preface > and forewords? > > Tommy H in Baton Rouge IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6840. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Irma Livoni letter of December 6 1941
From: Jim Hoffman . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/28/2010 6:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Jim Hoffman, Tommy Hickcox, and CloydG - - - - "Jim Hoffman" (jhoffma6 at tampabay.rr.com) A few years back Sybil Corwin's daughter spoke for us here in St. Petersburg. She had the letter with her. I assumed it was in her mother's belongings, and that it was the original, since Sybil was Irma's sponsor.
(cometkazie1 at cox.net) Search the list archives for Irma Livoni and you will get several hits from a couple of years ago. In one of them Chris B says he saw the letter in Akron Intergroup and one of the posts has what appears to be a facsimile of it.
search terms. Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - From: "CloydG" (cloydg449 at sbcglobal.net) I have personally seen a copy; I believe it to be that as it looked like a mimeograph copy, in an Archivist's collection who always can be and is usually seen in AA Conventions around Northern and Southern California. I last saw him at the World Convention this last July. I will ask around in my local area as to where he obtained his copy. Though it was hard for me to believe at the time that AA members could be terminated, I have had recent thoughts that some would like to terminate me. Thank God for the traditions! :o) In humor, Clyde G. - - - - ORIGINAL MESSAGE NO. 6837 from: "jomo" (contact.johnmoore at gmail.com) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6837
my time. But as a newcomer in the early 1970's in Los Angeles I saw, or believe I saw a carbon copy or a photo of the actual Irma Livoni letter. I have been curious about this letter and would like to ask a couple things. [1] First, has this letter, as some have said, been documented as the basis for AA's Third Tradition?
original is held by its owner, and I would like to know who is holding the letter now, and is there a photo of it or carbon copy archived somewhere and copies of it available?
South Burlington, Vermont US ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS Post Office Box 607 Hollywood Station, Hollywood, California
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939 S. Gramercy Place Los Angeles, California Dear Mrs. Livoni : At a meeting of the Executive Committee of the Los Angeles Group of Alcoholics Anonymous, held Dec. 4th, 1941, it was decided that your attendance at group meetings was no longer desired until certain expla- nations and plans for the future were made to the satisfaction of this committee. This action has been taken for reasons which should be most apparent to yourself. It was decided that, should you so desire, you may appear before members of this committee and state your attitude. This opportunity will be afforded you between now and December 15th, 1941. You may communicate with us at the above address by that date. In case you do not wish to appear, we shall consider the matter closed and that your membership is terminated. ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, Los Angeles Group Mortimer Joseph Frank Randall Edmund Jussen Jr. Fay D. Loomis Al Marineau
1941
From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/30/2010 1:00:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Group, Tradition 3: I do not believe any one letter, from any one group, was the reason
for Tradition 3, but a result of many similar incidences. In fact if you read
Tradition 3 in the 12 and 12 it does even give anything close to this situation as an example. I am sure if this letter was the direct cause for this tradition, Bill would have used it as a possible example.
About 15 years ago, while on a tour, I saw the carbon copy of this letter in the L. A Central Office Archives. I was given a reproduction copy of this letter and I know the ones floating around Southern California are copies of this reproduction. The typewriter font of the carbon copy and the reproduction are
totally different. The carbon copy was not on letterhead and was on very thin
"tissue" like paper. If you write the LA Archives I am sure they will send you
one of the reproductions, or at least it will not hurt to ask. Messages #4845 gives some additional information about this letter. Keep in mind
this is just a word of mouth account. Of all of the tapes I have listened to of Sybil C., in my role as the past Archivist of the Area 9 Archives, I have never heard Sybil tell this story in her own words. But, that does not make untrue.
From: jillanfinson . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/30/2010 9:35:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Do you know of a letter Bill Wilson wrote to the group in Chicago in the 1950's
(I think) after strong criticism where he encourages them to not put him on a pedestal? I heard a speaker reference this letter, but that is all the details he gave.
Jill
From: hdmozart . . . . . . . . . . . . 9/2/2010 9:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Perhaps the phrase 'burning desire' has no particular, hidden meaning - A search of the Grapevine digital archives uncovered examples of 'burning enthusiasm' and 'burning words', as well as 'burning desire' -
as an adjective to mean urgent or extreme - ==================== BURNING ENTHUSIASM March 1945 Vol. 1 No. 10 Dayton Has Interesting Hospital Record
Dayton
State Hospital is a state institution for the insane. The local superintendent has been very cooperative and agrees to admit A.A. patients for a ten-day stay
at the Hospital without the usual Probate Court proceedings. These persons are
admitted not as insane persons, but as potential members of A.A. They are given
hydrotherapy but no other treatment unless their condition calls for special attention of some kind. We have a special privilege of visiting any day from 9 A.M. to 9 P.M., and of course it is the practice of members of the group to see that the patient has plenty of visitors. The patients are given liberty of the grounds, but are obligated not to leave the reservation. The cost is insignificant, and in more than 50 percent of the cases, it has started the patient on the road to recovery. This plan is not generally adopted at the state institutions, and the question of whether or not any cooperation will be extended to A.A. is a matter entirely within the province of the local superintendent. Here in Dayton we have been particularly fortunate in having a superintendent who is interested and anxious to cooperate with us. Since facilities of the Dayton Hospital are not available for a patient more than once, we have found that the atmosphere of the Weber Rest Home, in Columbus, is very beneficial for the members who have experienced difficulty after being in the group for some time. Here they can have a five-day rest in A.A. environment.
to be effective if a patient desires to correct the situation. William M. M. Dayton, Ohio ===================== BURNING DESIRE March 1947 Vol. 3 No. 10 The Pleasures of Reading Great Adventures & Explorations, edited by Vilhjalmur Stefansson (Dial Press, $5)
There is Leif Ericsson, shadowy in the chiaroscuro of the Aurora Borealis, who
discovered North America; Columbus, nakedly and unashamedly seeking the fabulous
Indies, a liar, braggart, salesman, and hero; Magellan, glowering eastwards from
Goa in his quest for cloves and nutmegs, finding death midway in his search. Theirs was the burning desire to see what lay beyond the "sunset and the baths of all the western stars," to glimpse those newer worlds which have haunted the imaginations of all great explorers since Pytheas the Greek, of Marseilles, made the first recorded Arctic voyage in 330 B.C. ============================ BURNING WORDS January 1949 Vol. 5 No. 8 Washingtonians (Conclusion) WHAT was the valuable secret that the Washingtonians had stumbled upon, and why
was the movement such a success? [excerpt] To make sure that new members would not be frightened away, the Washington charter provided that only ex-drunks could address the meetings. Thus the "benefits of experience spoken in burning words from the heart" were made available for all to hear. If ordinary mortals wished to speak, they had to have
permission "by common consent of the members." Debates, lectures and speeches
were definitely out, and matters of business were limited to "as few remarks as possible". Ministers were not barred, but if they spoke "they were desired to lay aside their pontificals. . .abandon their sermons. . .and speak as men." Richard Ewell Brown ========================= BURNING ENTHUSIASM July 1952 Vol. 9 No. 2 Tradition Three [excerpt] Not long after the man with the double stigma knocked for admission, AA's other group received into its membership a salesman we shall call Ed. A power driver, this one, and brash as any salesman could possibly be. He had at least an idea a minute on how to improve AA. These ideas he sold to fellow members with the same burning enthusiasm with which he distributed automobile polish. But he had one idea that wasn't so saleable. Ed was an atheist. His pet obsession was that AA could get along better without its "God nonsense." He browbeat everybody, and everybody expected that he'd soon get drunk. . .for at the time, you see, AA was on the pious side. There must be a heavy penalty, it was thought, for blasphemy. Distressingly enough, Ed proceeded to stay sober. Bill W. ================ BURNING DESIRE September 1957 Vol. 14 No. 4 The Biggest Message From the Smallest AA [excerpt] I have one burning desire: to help those in trouble. My experience has been broad, my wishes never ending.
Wayne, Nebraska ========================= BURNING DESIRE June 1958 Vol. 15 No. 1 AA Inside Hospital Walls A Survey of Hospital Groups [excerpt] If the picture just presented seems a little on the gloomy side, it really is not! In spite of all the difficulties there is wonderful success, but a mere statement to the effect that there are a certain number of hospital groups and
that everyone is doing a fine job is not particularly constructive. Only when we
can know what is wrong are we able to take steps for improvement; and because
every AA's most burning desire is to carry the message to the still sick alcoholic, we are sure that he would like to know some of the needs and some of the pitfalls in working with hospital groups. Ann M. Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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