wrote:
>>
>>> This is a question about putting up banners in
>>> AA meeting rooms, with the 12 Steps, 12 Traditions,
>>> and 12 Concepts written on them.
>>>
>>> I'm from an AA group in Brisbane, Australia.
>>>
>>> We had our Group Conscience and put to the vote
>>> was whether we obtain a Concept Banner for our
>>> group.
>>>
>>> An old timer and very knowledgeable member
>>> advised that banners can be confusing to newcomers
>>> (e.g Step 6 and what is written on Step 6 in
>>> 12x12 two different things Tradition 3 etc.).
>>>
>>> He also claimed that Bill W can be quoted as
>>> saying that he was against the banners.
>>>
>>> I have never read or heard this before. I have
>>> dozens of books and AA info on AA history and
>>> Bill W, and have been unable to find any info
>>> on this.
>>>
>>> So was wondering if you may have anything on
>>> the history of the banners and Bill W's thoughts
>>> on their use (if he ever said anything about
>>> them) as I am very interested in finding out
>>> if this was so.
>>>
>>> Really appreciate your time
>>> Thanking you
>>> Kind Regards Denise
>>> Member Brisbane Traditions Group
>>> Australia
>>>
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++++Message 6315. . . . . . . . . . . . Dropkick Murphy''s in Jack Mc.''s
poem Drunks
From: doci333 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/9/2010 7:10:00 PM
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Good Day Everyone,
In the poem by Jack Mc., "Drunks," what is meant
when he writes, in one line of the poem,
"and sent us to places like Dropkick Murphy's"?
Line 31 underlined - See below please
THE POEM CAN BE FOUND IN A NUMBER OF PLACES,
FOR EXAMPLE:
http://www.sobermusicians.com/drunks.html
http://www.standupoet.net/ (Click Poems then to Drunks)
Google has many pages about the band by that
name, but I didn't see anything in our group's
past postings when I searched there.
Respectfully,
Dave G.
Illinois
U.S.A.
THE WORDS OF THE POEM:
DRUNKS
for my father, and the people who almost saved his life
We died of pneumonia in furnished rooms
where they found us three days later
when somebody complained about the smell
we died against bridge abutments
and nobody knew if it was suicide
and we probably didn't know either
except in the sense that it was always suicide
we died in hospitals
our stomachs huge, distended
and there was nothing they could do
we died in cells
never knowing whether we were guilty or not.
We went to priests
they gave us pledges
they told us to pray
they told us to go and sin no more, but go
we tried and we died
we died of overdoses
we died in bed (but usually not the Big Bed)
we died in straitjackets
in the DTs seeing God knows what
creeping skittering slithering
shuffling things
And you know what the worst thing was?
The worst thing was that
nobody ever believed how hard we tried
We went to doctors and they gave us stuff to take
that would make us sick when we drank
on the principle of so crazy, it just might work, I guess
or maybe they just shook their heads
__________________________________________
and sent us places like Dropkick Murphy's
__________________________________________
and when we got out we were hooked on paraldehyde
or maybe we lied to the doctors
and they told us not to drink so much
just drink like me
and we tried
and we died
we drowned in our own vomit
or choked on it
our broken jaws wired shut
we died playing Russian roulette
and people thought we'd lost
but we knew better
we died under the hoofs of horses
under the wheels of vehicles
under the knives and bootheels of our brother drunks
we died in shame
And you know what was even worse?
was that we couldn't believe it ourselves
that we had tried
we figured we just thought we tried
and we died believing that
we didn't know what it meant to try
When we were desperate enough
or hopeful or deluded or embattled enough to go for help
we went to people with letters after their names
and prayed that they might have read the right books
that had the right words in them
never suspecting the terrifying truth
that the right words, as simple as they were
had not been written yet
We died falling off girders on high buildings
because of course ironworkers drink
of course they do
we died with a shotgun in our mouth
or jumping off a bridge
and everybody knew it was suicide
we died under the Southeast Expressway
with our hands tied behind us
and a bullet in the back of our head
because this time the people that we disappointed
were the wrong people
we died in convulsions, or of "insult to the brain"
we died incontinent, and in disgrace, abandoned
if we were women, we died degraded,
because women have so much more to live up to
we tried and we died and nobody cried
And the very worst thing
was that for every one of us that died
there were another hundred of us, or another thousand
who wished that we could die
who went to sleep praying we would not have to wake up
because what we were enduring was intolerable
and we knew in our hearts
it wasn't ever gonna change
One day in a hospital room in New York City
one of us had what the books call
a transforming spiritual experience
and he said to himself
I've got it
(no you haven't you've only got part of it)
and I have to share it
(now you've ALMOST got it)
and he kept trying to give it away
but we couldn't hear it
the transmission line wasn't open yet
we tried to hear it
we tried and we died
we died of one last cigarette
the comfort of its glowing in the dark
we passed out and the bed caught fire
they said we suffocated before our body burned
they said we never felt a thing
that was the best way maybe that we died
except sometimes we took our family with us
And the man in New York was so sure he had it
he tried to love us into sobriety
but that didn't work either, love confuses drunks
and he tried and still we died
one after another we got his hopes up
and we broke his heart
because that's what we do
And the worst thing was that every time
we thought we knew what the worst thing was
something happened that was worse
Until a day came in a hotel lobby
and it wasn't in Rome, or Jerusalem, or Mecca
or even Dublin, or South Boston
it was in Akron, Ohio, for Christ's sake
a day came when the man said I have to find a drunk
because I need him as much as he needs me
(NOW
you've got it)
and the transmission line
after all those years
was open
the transmission line was open
And now we don't go to priests
and we don't go to doctors
and people with letters after their names
we come to people who have been there
we come to each other
and we try
and we don't have to die
©—Jack Mc
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++++Message 6316. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: U.S. postage stamp reading:
Alcoholism. You Can Beat It!
From: john wikelius . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/5/2010 11:27:00 PM
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As a stamp collector, I have a thousand
stamps of Alcoholism.
1981 First Day Covers are available as well.
Used stamps value at 0.50, unused approx 1.50.
They make great gifts.
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++++Message 6317. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: U.S. postage stamp reading:
Alcoholism. You Can Beat It!
From: Charley Bill . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/7/2010 1:42:00 AM
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Charles,
I have several 8X10 B&Wphotos of that ceremony
and a mint page of the stamps, given to me by
Dr Joe Zuska., who is in some of the pictures.
I will try to find these pictures, scan and
forward them to you, perhaps next Monday. I
can send a picture of the stamps, too, if you
want it.
Charley Bill
(charley_b at verizon.net)
On 2/3/2010 5:20 PM, Charles Knapp wrote:
>
> I had a copy of that same photo at one time.
> Somehow the photo became corrupt and I lost it.
> I found it on the Internet a few years ago and
> have never seen it since. This was the caption
> that was with the photo:
>
> Alcoholism Stamp Issued
>
> First Day Stamp issued, featuring Alcoholism,
> August 19, 1981. In celebration four important
> individuals, in promoting awareness of Alcoholism
> as public health problem pictured:
>
> Walter J. Murphy, Lois Wilson, widow of the
> co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous; William
> F. Bolger, Postmaster Genera; and R. Brinkley
> Smithers; Board member of the NCA and Financier
> of the Modern Alcoholism Movement.
>
> Couldn't find anything on Walter J Murphy other
> than he became the Executive Director of NCADD,
> but not sure of his role in 1981.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Charles from Wisconsin
>
> - - - -
>
> >From the original question:
>
> The stamp in question is a U.S. first-class postage
> stamp with the words on it: "Alcoholism. You Can
> Beat It!" Just the words, no picture on the stamp.
>
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++++Message 6318. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill''s spiritual experience --
belladonna induced?
From: pvttimt@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/6/2010 1:07:00 AM
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As an EMT in an area where Jimson weed grows by the side of the road, I can
tell you first hand that our patients who ingest Jimson tea do not appear to
be
having a very good time. We usually have to put them in restraints in order
to
transport, and based on what the ER docs say, the physostigmine antidote is
almost as dangerous as the weed itself.
Tim T.
- - - -
Original message from: Edward
Sent: Mon, Feb 1, 2010 7:15 am
I got sober at a city mission in Virginia that
has ... a night shelter. Of late, some younger
alcoholics who have dropped out of the program
but stay in the shelter have been trying jimson
weed for its hallucinogenic properties and
often have to be transported by ambulance to
the local detox for safekeeping.
They turn up drunk again as soon as they're
released, so at least we can assume hat the
experiences brought on by hyoscine, scopolamine
and hyoscyamine do not remove the urge to drink.
- - - -
Belladonna has the same psychoactive components
as jimsonweed (Datura tramonium) -- atropine,
hyoscine (scopolamine), and hyoscyamine.
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++++Message 6319. . . . . . . . . . . . Gert Behanna''s son
From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/7/2010 5:41:00 PM
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I have long had some pages on my site about
Gert Behanna and her books, AA talks, and things.
I had an email from her son a few years ago and
I never heard back from him. Does anyone know how
to contact him?
Did any of you ever have a conversation with Bard
(Gert Behanna's son)?
I write this on behalf of another member also
who contacted me, from the Louisville Metro
Traditions Group, by the name of L L
ld pierce
www.aabibliography.com
eztone at hotmail dot com
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++++Message 6320. . . . . . . . . . . . Bridge of Reason
From: Ben Hammond . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/8/2010 12:48:00 PM
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Howdy All ... I have been searching for the
source of the phrase "Bridge of Reason"
(with caps) from the Big Book, pp. 53 and 56.
The only thing I can find on Google is references
to a website which is attacking the Mormon Joseph
Smith.
... Can anyone please clarify?
... God Bless you all...Old Ben, Tulsa OK
Ben & Mary Lynn Hammond
5126 S. St. Louis Av
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74105
918 313 4059
- - - -
BIG BOOK pages 53 and 56:
p. 53 "Arrived at this point, we were squarely confronted
with the question of faith. We couldn't duck the issue.
Some of us had already walked far over the Bridge of
Reason toward the desired shore of faith. The outlines
and the promise of the New Land had brought lustre
to tired eyes and fresh courage to flagging spirits.
Friendly hands had stretched out in welcome. We
were grateful that Reason had brought us so far. But
somehow, we couldn't quite step ashore. Perhaps we
had been leaning too heavily on reason that last mile
and we did not like to lose our support."
p. 56 "Then, like a thunderbolt, a great thought came.
It crowded out all else:
'WHO ARE YOU TO SAY THERE IS NO GOD?'
This man recounts that he tumbled out of bed to his
knees. In a few seconds he was overwhelmed by a
conviction of the Presence of God. It poured over and
through him with the certainty and majesty of a great
tide at flood. The barriers he had built through the
years were swept away. He stood in the Presence of
Infinite Power and Love. He had stepped from bridge
to shore. For the first time, he lived in conscious com-
panionship with his Creator."
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++++Message 6321. . . . . . . . . . . . Looking for websites with archival
preservation information
From: mrpetesplace . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/6/2010 2:31:00 PM
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Does anyone have a favorite website or information
I can help make available for preservation of
archival material? I would like to provide this
information on my own site with links.
Does anyone have such information on their own
area's site to assist other members? Thank you.
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++++Message 6322. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: AA history book from GSO?
From: James Bliss . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/6/2010 1:25:00 AM
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You can see a somewhat detailed timeline and the results of this
attempted history in Message 4951 of this group. It is located at:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/4951
Jim
sally.kelly1941 wrote:
>
> Thanks to all who directed me to time lines
> for AA history. There is one submitted by a
> Michael S to the Fourth Dimension Meetings web
> site that appears to be the Arthur S timeline
> with updates.
>
> AA HISTORY BOOK: 1950 TO THE PRESENT
>
> It follows the progress, through GSC meetings,
> of a planned AA history book, covering the period
> since 1950, being prepared by GSO. The last
> mention on that time line of that effort is at
> the 45th GSC meeting in 1995.
>
> Who knows what became of that effort?
>
>
>
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++++Message 6323. . . . . . . . . . . . Call Out for Bands for EURYPAA
Concert
From: Stockholm Fellowship . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/6/2010 9:46:00 AM
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EURYPAA 2010 Stockholm is currently seeking submissions for its Friday Night
Sunset Concert!
If you, your band, or someone you know, would like to be considered for the
lineup, please email Matt D at archiedohman@yahoo.com a link to your music,
or
send a song in the mail. It's all in service, fun and fellowship for the
EURYPAA
conference, so there will be no compensation -- However, a table will be
provided to get info out about the acts performing.
Also, Matt is looking for some comedians, clowns, freaks in general, fire
eaters, etc, to do entreacts while bands are setting up and breaking down.
Thanks,
Matt D
Co-Chair of Friday night entertainment for EURYPAA 2010
archiedohman@yahoo.com
Spread the Word! The 1st Annual All-Europe Young People in A.A. Convention
will
be hosted by Stockholm, Sweden, July 23-25, 2010. More information at
www.EURYPAA.org/2010
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++++Message 6324. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Banners with the steps,
traditions, and concepts
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 2/8/2010 5:52:00 PM
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From Arthur S. and Shakey Mike
- - - -
From: "Arthur S" (arthur.s at live.com)
Tony is right
The various window shade, placard and table-top displays of the Steps and
Traditions and Concepts are part of Conference-approved literature and
service material and have been listed in the GSO (US/Canada) catalog for
quite a number of years. They are the foundation of AA's 3 Legacies of
Recovery, Unity and Service. They are also frequently printed in book
appendices and inside the covers of pamphlets.
It would be a bit incongruous that Bill W would be against banners or
placards portraying the 36 spiritual principles he himself authored. In AA
Comes of Age, Bill W speaks very glowingly of the banner unveiled behind the
stage in Kiel Auditorium in 1955 showing the circle and triangle logo and
explaining its meaning (and the symbolism of the 3 Legacies).
It's been my observation that when members resort to the "newcomer tactic"
(i.e. invent or augur ways that newcomers will be affected by something -
usually negative) it's primarily due to the fact that they can't come up
with a common sense reason to be against something that they are against.
It might be useful to ask for a copy of any written material by Bill W
citing what the members claims he said. On the other hand Bill has probably
been cited on quite a few things he never said.
Arthur
- - - -
From: "shakey"
(shakey1aa at yahoo.com)
see 5/11/2003 posting by charles k. photo's
incl of slogans appearing in 1953 grapevine
- - - -
Original message from "denise200305"
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