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Tom D. (Lima, Ohio) and Mel B. (Toledo, Ohio) both had 60 in April 2010 and both
gave their leads at the same dinner event May 2nd 2010 in Wapakoneta, Ohio. Rick S. - - - - From: Cindy Miller Clyde B____ of Newtown, Pennsylvania, will have 64 years on June 20, 2010. Best, cindy miller - - - - From: Patricia (pdixonrae at yahoo.com) Marg W____ 60 years in St. John, New Brunswick, Canada - - - - From: jdschlueter@yahoo.com (jdschlueter at yahoo.com) We have 2 in Santa Barbara, California IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6622. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 13th stepping From: Patricia . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/11/2010 3:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII THE ORIGIN OF THE 13th STEP From The VictorValley May 2003 Newsletter. Yes, doing someone else's inventory is permitted, but it is also generally frowned upon. Why? Well, it is understood among longer-lived members of this fellowship that true personal recovery does not come from doing another's inventory, but from sticking to one's own. Another thing that's permitted but generally frowned upon is "Thirteenth Stepping". Just as AA is not a lending bank, an employment center, or a social club, AA is also not a dating service. How did today's concept of "Thirteenth Stepping" arise? Originally, Old-timers recognized that our 12 Step program was indeed a 'one day at a time' lifelong effort. The original usage of "Thirteenth Step" was as a euphemism used by the first AA's to signify one's final step into the casket. After practicing the 12 Steps throughout a lifetime, it was said the deceased AA had made the "13th Step" into the grave." Later, as the fellowship's experience grew, the term "13th Step" took on its contemporary usage. The "Thirteenth Step" is commonly defined as the practice of dating a newcomer, or another AA member, with less than solid sobriety. It is widely accepted that romantic relationships are never easy, even for non-alcoholics. Bearing in mind that alcohol and addiction is a very real potential death sentence for an alcoholic, if we choose to risk the very personal emotional trauma which may arise from an unsuccessful union, we then
also risk the life of another out of our own self-will. The admonition on pg. 119 of the "Twelve & Twelve" is an understatement of great
magnitude. Certainly the likelihood for newcomers, or those of questionably stable sobriety, who are pursued for (or who do pursue) romantic relationships, is that emotional handicaps shall indeed rise up and cripple them, causing a significant number of them to relapse -- a relapse which can become a "13th Step" death sentence. Hence it's easy to understand how the term "13th Stepping" came to mean what it does today. That's why "Thirteenth Stepping", among informed members of the Fellowship, is viewed as the most self-seeking, willful, and inconsiderate behavior, and is understandably despised and discouraged. Clearly, playing fast and loose with another person's life is irresponsible and reprehensible. The old saying, "there's a slip under every skirt", in this day and age is so cute and coy that it fails to fully emphasize this most serious of problems. "The problem being...?" you ask? If you are actively practicing the "Thirteenth Step", look no further than the closest mirror and you will see that perhaps the
root of the problem is you. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6623. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 13th stepping From: Chuck Parkhurst . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/11/2010 8:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Question about the "13th Step" as the step into one's grave at the end of life: In message 6622 from Patricia (pdixonrae at yahoo.com) http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6622
"THE ORIGIN OF THE 13th STEP" from The Victor Valley May 2003 Newsletter.
the
following line from that article? "The original usage of 'Thirteenth Step' was as a euphemism used by the first
AA's to signify one's final step into the casket. After practicing the 12 Steps
throughout a lifetime, it was said the deceased AA had made the '13th Step' into
the grave." The story makes total sense to me but I am hoping there is something else to tie
it to AA. I have already emailed Patricia. In Service with Gratitude, Chuck Parkhurst IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6624. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Strecker From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2010 8:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I guess I have had a web page about Dr Strecker and Francis T Chambers (his co-author) for about ten years http://www.aabibliography.com/francis_t_chambers.htm any body have more info about Francis T Chambers?? LD Pierce aabibliography.com - - - - > From: > > 2 Dr Edward A Strecker- Alcohol-One Man's Meat > > Michelle, our GSO Archivist, has sent me information that a man from Philadelphia,PA in 1941 contacted New York about AA and corresponded with
Ruth Hock after reading about AA in the Saturday Evening Post Jack Alexander article that was spearheaded by Jimmy Burwell and the members of the Philadelphia Mother Group. This AA Group included Members(alcoholics) as well as
associate members (non Alcoholics) who were doctors, and members of the clergy.
The interesting part of this correspondence from a man referred to L.B.E. is that he got sober with the help of Dr. S. Naturally, any one familiar with AA in Philadelphia would think that Dr. S would be Dr. Dudley Saul of the Saul Clinic and a Associate Member of the Philadelphia Mother Group but this is not so. L.B.E. writes"The last time I was in the USA I saw quite a lot of Dr. S and talked with him quite a bit on the subject. Buddie W and Francis C who works with him, were compatriots of mine in Philadelphia many years ago." I recognized Francis C as Francis Chambers who co authored a significant book about alcoholism called "Alcoholism-One Man's Meat" The Dr S. is therefor Dr. Edward Strecker . A man famous in medicine. A friend to the alcoholic.Some may have heard of the Strecker Institute. > > The following is the biography of Dr Strecker from the University Of Pennsylvania ; > Edward A. Strecker (1886-1959) > > Clinician, teacher, researcher, author and gentlemen - Edward Adam Strecker lived each role fully during his active and inspiring career that spanned nearly half a century. > After graduating from Jefferson Medical College in 1911, Dr. Strecker joined Pennsylvania Hospital in 1913, serving as chief medical officer at The Institute of Pennsylvania Hospital from 1920 to 1928, He continued his association with the hospital until his death in 1959. Dr. Strecker served as professor and head of nervous and mental diseases at Jefferson Medical College; professor and head of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and later professor and emeritus professor and
chair of psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Medicine. In addition, he was clinical professor of psychiatry and mental diseases at Yale University and was the first professor of psychiatry at Seton
Hall College of Medicine. He was president of the American Psychiatric Association in 1943. > He possessed an outstanding ability to examine patients, investigate etiologic and dynamic factors and make accurate diagnoses and constructive recommendations for treatment. A skilled psychotherapist, Dr, Strecker was also
a superb teacher, whose colorful language created an unforgettable clinical picture. He made psychiatry comprehensible and exciting to medical students, psychiatric nurses and other mental health professionals, producing a profound
effect on psychiatric teaching in Philadelphia. > Dr. Strecker's main interest in the early 1920's was to develop the psychiatric outpatient department of The Institute of Pennsylvania Hospital. Under his direction, psychotherapy in that department flourished, and many young psychiatrists sought to have the privilege of studying therapeutic approaches from such a highly skilled and innovative clinician. He also sought to relate psychiatry to the general practice of medicine. > A prolific writer, he authored ten books and more than 200 papers, on such diverse subjects as alcoholism, childhood behaviors, encephalitis, head trauma, sex offenders, war neuroses, and civilization and culture. he authored
five editions of the best-known standard textbook at that time, Fundamentals of Psychiatry. > Many honors were bestowed on Dr. Strecker, including four honorary doctoral degrees. He served the nation in both World War I and World War II, was named a consultant to President Roosevelt and received a presidential citation from President Truman. > This outstanding physician and human being serves as a model for psychiatrists and a continuing source of pride for Pennsylvania Hospital." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6625. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 13th stepping From: andywalthall . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2010 1:58:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From andywalthall, aalogsdon, and Bill McIntire - - - - From: "andywalthall" (andywalthall at yahoo.com) From the article "Clubs in AA" Bill W.
Grapevine April 1947 As the majority view, we might suppose that to be a blanket endorsement for clubs; we might think we couldn't get along without them. We might conceive them as a central AA institution - a sort of "thirteenth step" of our recovery program without which the other Twelve Steps wouldn't work.
- - - - From: aalogsdon@aol.com (aalogsdon at aol.com) Page 97 of Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers on page 97 discusses the 13th Step.
"Together, Victor and the lady known as Lil started out to write the "thirteenth step" long before the first twelve were ever thought of." Your attention is drawn to this discussion which covers a few paragraphs.
was
originally looked down on because the AA's having been sober for a while (usually men, there were many more of them than women) they finally wanted to begin the rest of life over. Having only slim pickings, usually what few women there were around were newly sober. Not "when" but if things went badly, it was usually the one who had been sober the longest who had paid the bigger price, not only having lost their invested emotions having a "now reawakened concience, but the hard won sobriety as well. When we were newly sober, "most" of us had had most of our morals and
worn away or rather traded away for booze. So getting into a "fling" was not a really hard thing to do. The feelings to avoid this situation was originally to protect the old timer from losing their hard won sobriety. But, as successful as AA was back then, I still have not heard a whole lot of the tragedies which would suggest that this all comes down to the "individuals" own intent before action. Was they out for love or a piece of "butt"? I personally know 2 dozen or more oldtimers that have been married for years that their spouses were once fairly new in sobriety when they had met. I am sober 23 years in August and my wife is sober alittle over 3 years. We didn't plan it this way but yet here we are!!  Fat, sassy and Happy as heck!!!
We both love the part in the Big Book that speaks about having to crush our old
ideas. Who can look at two people and decide for them if what they do is right or wrong?
From: planternva2000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2010 5:31:00 PM
an invitation to join Grouply so you can see his profile, friends, and list of groups. On Saturday (June 19), this invitation will expire. Follow this link to accept Sxxxxx Mxxxxxxx's invitation. http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Signing up is free and takes less than a minute. The Grouply Team"
Jim S.
I believe Jim's point, which is well taken, is that we should avoid mixing AAHL matters up with our social networking systems. He was adding this comment to something I posted several days ago:
Glenn Chesnut > > Folks,
> > Just a couple of reminders. > ______________________________ > > 1. The founder of the AAHistoryLovers had several oft repeated rules that she would announce to people who sent things in: > > "We are not a chat room: please do not use the list to comment on other people's posts. Comment on the post ONLY if your message has additional history
on the subject." > > "Personal opinions are to be avoided: no personal opinions, or posts based just on rumor or vague memory of what someone told you will be posted. To the
extent possible please list the sources for any information you send." > > "Messages that repeat history already on the list will not be posted: please use the search box to make sure the information is not already on the list. Also please search the list before posting a question which may already have been answered." > ______________________________ > > There are lots of AA chat rooms and discussion groups online. But there is only one really first-rate history group, the AAHistoryLovers. > > And if we overwhelm the AAHL with the kind of messages which could be posted just as well in numerous other places, we will create a situation where no one will have time to read all the messages, and the central purpose of the AAHL will be destroyed. We'll turn into just another AA chat room and discussion group.
> ______________________________ > > 2. The other reminder is that, before sending a question in, please go first to the Message Board at > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/messages > and use the search box at the top to search for words and phrases on that topic. >
the question) has already been answered very thoroughly. > > Thanks, > > Glenn C., Moderator >
AA trivia or gossip From: Lawrence Willoughby . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/13/2010 10:30:00 PM
for
a long time. I just ignore them. - - - - Original message from: planternva2000 Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The AAHL should not be used for AA trivia or gossip This evening I received the following email, which I have edited slightly: "Sxxxxx Mxxxxxxx shares the AAHistoryLovers group with you. Sxxxxx sent you an invitation to join Grouply so you can see his profile, friends, and list of groups. On Saturday (June 19), this invitation will expire. Follow this link to accept Sxxxxx Mxxxxxxx's invitation. http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Signing up is free and takes less than a minute. The Grouply Team"
Jim S.
++++Message 6628. . . . . . . . . . . . Edgar Allan Poe and the Washingtonians From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/14/2010 12:50:00 PM
article discussing Edgar Allan Poe's short story, "The Cask of Amontillado."
movement, a fellowship that promoted temperance. The group was made up of reformed drinkers who tried to scare people into abstaining from alcohol. Poe
may have made a promise to join the movement in 1843 after a bout of drinking
with the hopes of gaining a political appointment. "The Cask of Amontillado" then may be a "dark temperance tale", meant to shock people into realizing the dangers of drinking."** _____________________________________________ **Reynolds, David F. "Poe's Art of Transformation: 'The Cask of Amontillado' in Its Cultural Context", as collected in The American Novel: New Essays on Poe's Major Tales, Kenneth Silverman, ed. Cambridge University Press, 1993. ISBN 0521422433 pp. 96â“7 IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6629. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: 13th stepping From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/13/2010 7:22:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Jimmy Burwell said the only time I thirteenth stepped I married her. Meaning his third wife Rosa. Shakey Mike Chandigar, India IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6630. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Split from the Oxford Group: New York, Cleveland, Akron From: royslev . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/14/2010 9:50:00 AM
recording of Clarence Snyder that I could find and he always spoke of Dr. Bob as his sponsor. If we're talking about Clarence Snyder here, this Lloyd T. is news to me. You sure it wasn't "Lloyd T. who had been Clarence's sponsee?" - - - - Original message No. 6582 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6582 from with the Oxford Group: John and Elgie R. remembered when the decision was made. "There was a meeting that night," said John, who always managed to get in a good word for every person he mentioned. "Boy, I never heard two men talk like they did [Dr.
Bob and T. Henry]. They passed confidence and praise to each other. And they both deserved it. "It was a hard time for the group," John said. "There were a lot of us who liked
T. Henry. And we didn't know whether to leave or not." "At the last meeting, they voted," said Elgie. "The ones who were going to stay
with T. Henry-okay. And the ones who were going with Doc-okay. That's the way
they said goodbye. But they had argued over it all for a month or more." Among those who stayed were Lloyd T., who had been Clarence's sponsor, and Bill
J. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6631. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Split from the Oxford Group: New York, Cleveland, Akron From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2010 4:44:00 PM
Dr.
Bob and the Good Oldtimers. See p. 143 -- the first AA person whom Clarence Snyder's wife talked to face-to-face was Lloyd T., but it is not clear that Clarence talked to Lloyd at that time. And all that Lloyd did at that point was to talk Clarence's wife into buying Clarence a bus ticket to Akron. So p. 218, where Lloyd T. is described at Clarence's sponsor, may not be well
worded -- UNLESS -- and I do not know the answer to this -- Lloyd was the one
who guaranteed the payment of Clarence's hospital bill in Akron (see p. 143).
when he was checked into a hospital for detoxing; the "sponsor" was the one who
promised to pay the alcoholic's hospital bill if he did not pay. See http://hindsfoot.org/AkrMan1.html But yes, of course, Dr. Bob was Clarence's principal "sponsor" in the sense in which that term was being used by the latter 1940's. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6632. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: royslev . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2010 9:53:00 AM
used, since it was not mentioned in the first 164 pages of the BB. Was this an Oxford Group term? Any experts on early Oxford Group history out there? Or perhaps, owners of original or reprinted "What is the Oxford Group?" texts, or other "official" Oxford Group literature? Does Oxford Group literature mention that term? I know from listening to recordings of talks by early AA pioneers like Clarence
Snyder and Jimmy Burwell that they used the term. Clarence refers to Dr Bob as his "sponsor." Jimmy refers to Jackie Williams (who later drank and died) as his "sponsor." Was this term already in use by the Oxford Groups and/or "alcoholic squadron" of the Oxford Groups in any sense as we use it today, i.e. as someone who takes you
through the step process or at least guides you in early recovery. Or at least,
introduces you to the meetings. Clarence makes a point of saying that he didn't feel really a part of his group
(Akron O.G.) until he brought in a "convert." --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "John R Reid" > > Please refer to page 100 of the Big Book in regards to working with the new person
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: allan_gengler > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 AM > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship > > > > > > Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. > > Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. > > In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. > > Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. > > I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need
to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. > > I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the beginning. > > --Al > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C > > > > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. > >
> > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? > > > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > >
> > Charlie C. > > IM = route20guy > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
++++Message 6633. . . . . . . . . . . . Use of the word sponsor From: royslev . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2010 10:14:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have an early AA history question. Most of us are aware that the actual term
"sponsor" is not mentioned in the first 164 pages of our basic text (the equivalent term "spiritual adviser" is used on page 63). Yet when listening to AA pioneer Clarence Snyder's recordings in which he talks
a lot about early program history when they were still going to Oxford Group meetings before 1939 he refers to Dr. Bob as his "sponsor." So my question is really for Oxford Group history experts: Was the term sponsor
a common Oxford Group usage? Was it a common term used by members of the "alcoholic squadron" of the Akron or New York Oxford groupers even though it was omitted by Bill in our basic text? When did the actual word sponsor come into common usage among AA members (we all
know it's on every other page of the 12&120 ? I've done a search for the discussion thread on the word "sponsor" in the AA historylovers group but this is a more precise question. Thanks for feedback. Roy L. ( class of `78 ) royslev@verizon.net royslev@yahoo.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6634. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Sam Shoemaker and Not Maximum From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/14/2010 6:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I'd like to try and answer this question as well as the question in message 6606.
with the drunks (Broken stained glass windows, noisy drunk types at OG meetings, cigarettes,etc) and the sermon given by Jack Smith in Sam Shoemakers absence criticizing Lois and Bill was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as Bill was concerned. There were other issues in Bill's mind that I wont get into here. The "historical idea" that "The Absolutes" were too much for the drunks, while probably true, was really somewhat of a smokescreen used by Bill for the split.
who were good friends. Sam had to support the split from the Oxford Group point of view for the following reason which he did believe with all heart at the time. The passge below comes from the Oxford Group book "The Guidance of God" - Eleanor Napier Forde and definitly reflects the Oxford Group doctrine. "The fifth signpost, 'What say others to whom God speaks?' is the unwritten law
of fellowship. It calls for the death of that subtle spiritual pride which 'takes conviction only from God.' It has no place for the tempermental vagories of the person who likes to play the rogue elephant and resents the constraining discipline of the 'team;' whose loyalty has no wider scope than vanity leaves room for. It ordains that one should be ready to let any plan of one's own, however good, be superceded if God reveals one better through other people." The "group guidance" had been that Bill was not to work exclusively with drunks
but to assist with the overall Oxford group agenda. Bill of course would have
none of that and was stung by this and other criticisms. Interestingly enough, Bill would carry on the same thinking later when writing
Tradition One which states the same principle but in different langauge. Sam Shoemaker later apologized to Bill in writing for his part in the seperation which he recognized as his fault. I believe that Bill and Sam remained close even after the two groups seperated although I'm sure there was some strain in the relationship. God Bless, John B --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "gvanrobinson" wrote:
> > Bill W. heaped much praise on Sam Shoemaker for his role in giving AA many of its basic principles. When the "anonymous bunch of drunks" were declared "not maximum" by the Oxford Group in New York in 1937, what was Shoemaker's stance on the split? > > I'm aware that it was in 1941 when he asked the Oxford Group to leave Calvary Episcopal Church. 1939 to 1941 must have been quite a time of upheaval for him. >
++++Message 6635. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2010 8:56:00 PM
"sponsor" in the forward to this pamphlet: "This booklet is intended to be a practical guide for new members and sponsors
of new members of Alcoholics Anonymous." >> See http://hindsfoot.org/AkrMan1.html >> and http://hindsfoot.org/AkrMan2.html Also.......... The word "SPONSOR" appears in the second issue of the Cleveland Central Bulletin dated November 1942 in an article titled "Responsibility of Sponsors."
2010
From: Bob McK. . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2010 9:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Weds. June 23rd, 2010 at 7 pm marks the unveiling of the two archives areas in the Cleveland District Office: a locked display room and an open audio-visual room. Those within reasonable driving distance of the office at Reserve Square (1701 e 12th St lower level) may wish to attend. Thanks to those many volunteers that constructed these areas! Thanks also to those archives donors in Ohio and elsewhere that made this possible. We welcome other donations of materials elucidating Cleveland AA history. Bob McK., archivist IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6637. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: John Steeves . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/16/2010 9:57:00 PM
the
night of Dr. Bob's passing, the term "sponsor" was used by Bill as follows: When Bill went to attend his first Oxford group meeting he got drunk along the
way there. He met a sail maker in the bar. The two of them went together to the
location where the Oxford group was meeting. When they got there the man at the
door would not let them in (because they were so drunk) ..... Bill says that Ebby had to "sponsor them in." Maybe something? SWJ ________________________________ From: royslev To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:53:24 AM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship
used,
since it was not mentioned in the first 164 pages of the BB. Was this an Oxford
Group term? Any experts on early Oxford Group history out there? Or perhaps, owners of original or reprinted "What is the Oxford Group?" texts, or other "official" Oxford Group literature? Does Oxford Group literature mention that
term? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6638. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: Jim Hoffman . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/17/2010 9:01:00 AM
and
the meeting never really happened. It is a one man play written and performed by Bill McN. of New York. It is all part of a dramatization that he has done many
times over the years. Sorry Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6639. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book Page 100 to do with sponsorship From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/17/2010 7:57:00 AM
(sober
since May 22 1970) and has been publicized as such by Bill M in the pages of MARKINGS. Although Bill M. is a devoted and dedicated student of AA history, this cannot be taken as independent evidence of the use of the word "sponsor." In any case, the OG used the term "sponsor" more or less in the sense used of Godparents in Sacramental Baptism -- and btw at Calvary, Bill was Ebby's sponsor. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original message #6637 from John Steeves Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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