Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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| In earlier times, some theologians wrote "natural theologies" by first
explicating the wonders of nature and then gradually moving toward theism, revelation, and Christian doctrine. If I were writing a natural theology today, I think I would start with recovering alcoholics. It staggers me that psychiatrists, pharmacologists, and scientific reductionists cannot improve on a spiritual program devised by a couple of alcoholics 60 years ago.
movement contains within it seeds of all these doctrines. As an alcoholic once told me, "I publicly declare 'I am an alcoholic' whenever I introduce myself at group. It is a statement of failure, of helplessness, and surrender. Take a room of a dozen or so people, all of whom admit helplessness and failure, and it's pretty easy to see how God then presents Himself in that group."
said, that stands as the most important hurdle an addicted person must surmount: to acknowledge, deep in the soul, not being God. No mastery of manipulation and control, at which alcoholics excel, can overcome the root problem; rather, the alcoholic must recognize individual helplessness and fall back in the arms of the Higher Power. "First of all, we had to quit playing God," concluded the founders of AA; and then allow God himself to "be God" in the addict's life, which involves daily, even moment-by-moment, surrender.
conviction, now a canon of Twelve-Step groups, that an alcoholic must "hit bottom" in order to climb upward. Wilson wrote his fellow strugglers, "How privileged we are to understand so well the divine paradox that strength rises from weakness, that humiliation goes before resurrection: that pain is not only the price but the very touchstone of spiritual rebirth." The Apostle Paul could not have phrased it better.
alcoholic may pray desperately for the condition to go away, very few addicts report sudden, miraculous healing. Most battle temptation every day of their lives, experiencing grace not as a magic potion, rather as a balm whose strength is activated daily by conscious dependence on God.
and have all the sex I want with all the women I want and live in a state of continued drunkenness for quite some time. But there is a catch. I know firsthand all the misery and guilt that comes along with it. And that is something I want no part of. I have experienced guilt and misery so extreme that I didn't want to live anymore at all--and that, my friend, is why I would rather not have to take advantage of God's generosity in being willing to forgive me once again should I go that route. Plus, in my present life, every now and then I think I do manage to do God's will. And, when I do, then the rewards are so tremendous and satisfying that I get kind of addicted to that closeness to God. There is a common saying in AA: 'Religion is for people who believe in hell. Spirituality is for people who have been there.'"
it may be no accident that we refer to alcoholic drinks as "spirits." Perhaps, suggested Jung, alcoholics have a greater thirst for the spirit than other people, but it is all too often misdirected. Early in the AA program, two groups divided over the issue of perfectionism. One, an offshoot of the Oxford Group, insisted on "Four Absolutes" and required its members to commit to a strict Christian creed. The other, led by Bill Wilson, started with a dependence on grace, an acknowledgment that its members would never achieve perfection. Absolutes, said Wilson, either turned alcoholics away or gave them a dangerous feeling of "spiritual inflation." Over time, the perfectionist Oxford Group shriveled up and disappeared; grace-based AA has never stopped growing. We in the church have as much to learn from people in the recovery movement as we have to offer them. I was struck by one observation from an alcoholic friend of mine. "When I'm late to church, people turn around and stare at me with frowns of disapproval. I get the clear message that I'm not as responsible as they are. When I'm late to AA, the meeting comes to a halt and everyone jumps up to hug and welcome me. They realize that my lateness may be a sign that I almost didn't make it. When I show up, it proves that my desperate need for them won out over my desperate need for alcohol." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5767. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: Cindy Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/7/2009 9:17:00 AM
ever seen!!! Good luck!! (But try to narrow things down a bit) -cm `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) Garrett A, not sure of spelling, then a past trustee. In the early eighties had about thirty two years sober. We had a woman member who's name escapes me who had well over thirty years sober in the early eighties. I am sure the DC members of the cosmopolitan group or the metropolis groups could name many people of that era. Norman B from the Washington area was famous for his work with Montgomery General Hospital and certainly along the east coast goes back at least till 1970. Our
Washington Area Inter Group had a very large percentage of Of African Americans who had responsible position in our inter group. Of all the old timers in the Washington area it seems the ones with the longest sobriety were
our African American members. - - - - On Jun 6, 2009, at 8:55 PM, David wrote: > > Is anyone aware, in either local, district, > area or international archives, or from > personal experience, of any information > concerning African-American participation > in AA groups in America or other countries > from approximately 1940 to 1970? > > Thanks so much for your input! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5768. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/10/2009 8:48:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The latest issue of the Tularosa Basin Historical Society magazine, devoted to Rowland Hazard and his pottery factory, is now available. Ted mentioned this here earlier (and yes, they do spell the name "Roland," no one can get everything right). Local historian Janie Bell Furman has put together a complete history of Hazard's projects there, beautifully written and fully illustrated. I was transfixed, both by the story and by the extensive collections of photos.
cross-country car trip and was delayed there by car trouble. His wife was in the process of divorcing him, and he had just been through one the most dangerous quack alcoholism cures on record (Furman is actually not aware of these last two details, but they may clarify his behavior somewhat). His devotion to the property really comes through in her writing. Rowland truly loved the hispanic and native cultures of the area. I suspect that
there was a strong spiritual element to this, and that he needed a change from
the eastern gentility in which he was raised. Maybe this explains some of the
near-manic intensity of his approach to the project. He literally sold everything he had for that one pearl, and unfortunately he lost his investment.
Agnew, who brought Rowland back East to be hospitalized after a severe relapse in 1936. Rowland apparently never went back, and the property was eventually liquidated by his brother, who took over as administrator. Rowland's commitment to the Oxford Group developed gradually over the time he was building and operating the La Luz factory, and he continued to be active in the movement after that last (?) relapse.
Society,
phone number (575) 434-4438, email tbhs@zianet, snail mail Tularosa Basin Historical Society, 1301 N. White Sands Blvd., Alamogordo NM, 88310. They don't seem to have a significant web presence. Cora IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5769. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of sponsorship From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/13/2009 4:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just an FYI, The Big Book was published on April 10, 1939 (according to the copyright). The Cleveland Group (Abby G - Group) was founded May 11, 1939.
published were Akron and NY. God Bless - - - - Jay Lawyer Subject: RE: History of sponsorship > Remember at the time the Big Book was published > there were only 3 groups. NY, Akron, and > Cleveland. What were you to do? The Big Book > explains it. > > Jay
++++Message 5770. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: African-American Participation in AA Meetings From: James Flynn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 1:31:00 PM
area and I remember Big Norm. He was legendary in the Mongomery County Maryland meetings. Many AA's in Montgomery County Maryland went through the Montgomery General's Rehab Program and had had encounters with Big Norm. He had a way of getting drunks who thought they were tough guys to see the light of reason mostly owning to his enormous size.
From: John Dunn . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/14/2009 11:33:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello All, Does anyone have information on the history of Fresno AA? I think it started in April 1946, but who carried the message?
John
++++Message 5772. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: History of sponsorship From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/12/2009 5:12:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At 07:44 6/5/2009, Charlie C wrote: > I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed > here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's > 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing > the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older > members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither > place is a sponsor mentioned. > > My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA > practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is > this correct? I have read that Dr. Bob had input into the first six printings of the Little Red Book, 1946-1950, but I have yet to see any changes specifically attributed to him. That doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I am not aware of them. > > Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we > know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in > the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become > the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any > interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? > Thanks, I learn so much from this group!
p. 60, "Our next problem will be to discover the person in whom we are to confide," and admonishes us "to take much care, remembering that prudence is a virtue which carries a high rating." It goes on to say the person may be one who has "stayed dry," inferring he/she is in A.A. "This person may turn out to be one's sponsor, but not necessarily so," and it goes on to say the sponsor may not be the right person "for the more difficult and deeper revelations . . . a complete stranger may prove the best bet." I know some A.A.s who have been around for a long time who are aghast when reminded of this. Apparently, they feel it is their right to hear their sponsees' Fifth Steps. This would suggest the use of outsiders went into the middle 1950s. It also states that there may be things that one's sponsor doesn't need to know.
most
alcoholics could not get sober on the book alone, they need what Dr. Bob needed,
another alcoholic who spoke his language. You see Dr. Bob was already a member
of the Oxford Group prior to meeting Bill W. The Oxford Group principles were
not enough for Dr. Bob to get sober, Dr, Bob needed Bill Wilson and Bill Wilson needed Dr. Bob for mutual support. Most of the alcoholics that got sober in the early days did not get sober with the book alone they were connected one of the few groups that existed back then. That is why Alcoholics Anonymous is described as a fellowship of men and woman who share their experience strength and hope with each other and not as a book published back in 1939. Sincerely, Jim F. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5773. . . . . . . . . . . . Sister Ignatia documents and photos From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 3:44:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Fiona D. has posted two new sections in her collection of Sister Ignatia documents and photos: http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia5.html Sister Ignatia: her parents' marriage certificate. The Church Marriage Record for Sister Ignatia's parents, Patrick Gavin and Barbara Neary, who married on 29 January 1882. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia6.html The Fourth Earl of Lucan: Sister Ignatia was born on his estate in County Mayo in Ireland. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO LOOK AT THE FOUR PREVIOUS SECTIONS: http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia1.html Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland. Photos of the just discovered ruins of the two-roomed stone cottage where Sister Ignatia Gavin, the Angel of Alcoholics Anonymous, was born on 1 January 1889 at Shanvalley, Burren, in County Mayo. Photos and description (13 July 2008) by the Irish AA historian Fiona D. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia2.html More on Sister Ignatia's birthplace in Ireland: The Neary family's rental holdings in Griffith's Land Valuation of 1855. When Patrick Gavin and Barbara Neary (Ignatia's father and mother) got married, the couple set up housekeeping in a part of County Mayo where numerous members of the Neary family lived, renting land on the Earl of Lucan's estate. From Irish AA historian and archivist Fiona D. in County Mayo. http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia3.html Seven-year-old Ignatia sails from Ireland to America in 1896 Emigration records showing the Gavin family sailing from Queenstown (now Cobh) in Cork on the SS Indiana on 2 April 1896, arriving in Philadelphia on 17 April 1896, with photographs of the ship and harbor. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). http://hindsfoot.org/ignatia4.html Sister Ignatia: baptismal record (birth certificate) and the passenger manifest for the SS Indiana Sister Ignatia's date of birth, as given in some of the older historical sources, needs to be corrected. Born Bridget Gavin, this photograph of her baptismal record shows that she was born on 1 January 1889. This is the date which should be used. Also photographs of the three sheets of the original passenger manifest showing Sister Ignatia and her family embarking on the SS Indiana. From Irish AA historian Fiona D. (County Mayo). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5774. . . . . . . . . . . . Renner''s Beer in Akron, Ohio From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 3:46:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII http://hindsfoot.org/archives.html (about two thirds of the way down the page) Photo of a Renner's Beer Wagon in Akron, Ohio When Prohibition ended, at 12:01 A.M., on April 7, 1933, in a persistent cold rain, a crowd of 2,000 people waited in line outside the George J. Renner Brewing Company's brewery on Forge Street in Akron to purchase some of the 5,000 cases of their Grossvater brand beer that were available at $3.25 per case. By noon the next day, 10,000 cases had been sold at the brewery and through shipments all over northeast Ohio and western Pennsylvania.
(Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers page 75) Is there any record of what his favorite brand of beer was? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5775. . . . . . . . . . . . Rowland Hazard with a W From: secondles . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:25:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All: Regards Rowland spelling .... in 2007 I got several deeds concerning Rowland from the Town records in Shaftsbury, Vermont and in all instances the spelling was with the "W" in 1930s. Les C - - - - "corafinch" > > The latest issue of the Tularosa Basin Histo- rical Society magazine, devoted to Rowland Hazard and his pottery factory, is now available .... and yes, they do spell the name "Roland," no one can get everything right .... - - - - From the moderator -- Rowland with a W is the correct spelling, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowland_Hazard_III http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5564 http://www.barefootsworld.net/aapeople.html Hazard, Rowland http://www.silkworth.net/aahistory_names/namesh.html Hazard, Rowland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5776. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Rowland Hazard in New Mexico From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi, I would like to know if Roland died sober? I somehow heard that he died drunk and would like the matter cleared. Dolores
in AA Meetings From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/15/2009 4:36:00 PM
from Eastern PA to the General Service Conference before 1970. His widow, Mary, may still be alive (she was a frequent and always welcomed Al-Anon speaker). The Archivist for Area 59 AA (Eastern Pennsylvania) might have information on Lou.
> >
> > Is anyone aware, in either local, district, > > area or international archives, or from > > personal experience, of any information > > concerning African-American participation > > in AA groups in America or other countries > > from approximately 1940 to 1970? > > > > Thanks so much for your input! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5778. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First Latin American country with an AA group From: Angela Corelis . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/9/2009 8:15:00 PM
in the Saturday Evening Post. Among the first people in Mexico to read it and respond by contacting the New York AA Headquarters was an American named Arthur
H. who was a resident of Mexico City . Arthur wanted to find out more about this
miraculous cure for alcoholism. One year later the mail from Arthur ended and
New York never received any more news about him. About that time a Mexican named Jorge S. living in Mexico City also wrote to New
York requesting information. He'd learned about AA from reading a magazine published by the office of public education in Mexico. After receiving the information, Jorge felt motivated to start an AA meeting. An AA from Los Angeles
got Jorge's address from New York and when he went to Mexico for business he paid a visit to Jorge. Jorge felt greatly strengthened by this contact but early in 1942, the contact with Jorge disappeared. In 1944 Gilberto M. received the AA message in Los Angeles when he was visiting
with his wife Francisca, trying to find a solution to his drinking problem. There he got the addresses of the New York Office and the Cleveland intergroup. Gilberto returned to his home in Monterrey in the northern state of Nuevo Leon. His wife Francisca proved to be an extraordinary woman. She was worried Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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