majority is swayed by a minority opinion.
about cost and some who voted for the idea indicated they wanted to re-vote.
more details about the cost at a future meeting.
threshold.
people to rethink their vote, other times just a few people. But it does
sway.
an effect at the District, Region or Area levels. In my experience, in the
it every time, some don't if the motion didn't pass in the first place.
Jay G.
(bobnotgod2 at att.net)
The Conference Archives Committee, a secondary committee, came into being in
1998 through just such a process. It was just shy of the required 2/3 vote
for approval. Impassioned pleas by the non-prevailing side led to a
reconsideration. Most notable in the restored debate was the statement by
David E. from Hawaii who said, "I've been swaying back and forth like a palm
tree on this issue, but I think we ought to give it a chance." The vote was
indeed swayed to over a 2/3 majority and the committee was born.
When chairing any AA or AA-related debate I have always asked for minority
opinion. If nothing else, it offers the losing side an opportunity to vent
their "sour grapes." At one time in the 1998 (or possible '97) Conference
the chair allowed minority opinion after an already-reconsidered vote,
knowing full well that a second motion to reconsider is not allowed.
Furthermore full debate on the original motion may not have occurred because
of a motion calling the question or because some did not express important
issues feeling that their side was certain to prevail without their help.
- - - -
From: "inkman83" (tumbles83 at msn.com)
I was active in The North Florida Area from approximately 1994-2006 and at
least
three separate times the minority opinion swayed the majority and the vote
was
overturned. After minority opinion is heard the Chair (I believe) asked if
there is someone who voted in the majority who would like to ask for a
re-vote,
if that motion is seconded then a vote is taken to determiine if a re-vote
will
take place, if that passes then the secretary re-reads the motion and a new
vote
is taken (if I recall correctly there is no discussion on a re-vote). I
believe
this information can be found by e-mailing the Secretary or the Archivist
from
aanorthflorida.org
Hope this helps
Dave
- - - -
The two original messages were from:
"cwojohnwalter"
(cwojohnwalter at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Jan 6, 2010
Is there a recorded precedence in which the
minority opinion was heard and then swayed the
majority opinion enough to change or table the
vote?
I realize that this might happen at the individual
group level often but I am looking for some
documentation of it happening at the Regional or
Higher Level.
I am giving a presentation about the minority
opinion and Concept V and would like to geek it
out as much as possible.
Love and Service - John
And "Is it necessary to ask the floor for
any minority opinion?"
After an issue is debated and all sides of
have been heard and after the vote is taken
and there is a simple or 2/3 majority (whichever
is required) than is it necessary to ask the
floor for the minority to state its opinion if
it so wishes?
Love and Service - John
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++++Message 6216. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: life of Jack Alexander
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/11/2010 1:59:00 PM
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Boss Hague: King Hanky-Panky of Jersey
By Jack Alexander
Originally appeared in The Saturday Evening Post
on October 26, 1940
Edited by GET NJ, COPYRIGHT 2002
http://www.cityofjerseycity.org/hague/kinghankypanky/index.shtml
The Honorable Frank Hague, the perpetual mayor of Jersey City, is perhaps
the most eminent mugg in the United States. Hague was a mugg when he was
expelled from the sixth grade at thirteen as a truant and dullard, and be
was
a mugg when he started learning politics the bare-knuckles way in the tough
Horseshoe district of Jersey City in the 1890's. He was still a mugg when
he was elected mayor of that dreary human hive in 1917, in which capacity
he has held the center of the stage ever since with the grim determination
of a bad violinist. Hague will probably he known to history as a strong
character who, despite all temptations to belong to other classifications,
loyally remained a mugg to the end. This is a remarkable achievement when
you
analyze it, for Hanky-Panky, as his admirers sometimes call him, has walked
with the great and good, and their only noticeable effect on him has been
to give him a taste for expensive haberdashery. At heart and in practice, he
is a strong-arm man today, tricked out by a clever tailor to look like a
statesman.
As a wood carver fashions puppets, Hague has created governors, United
States senators, and judges of high and low degree. He has been backslapped
cordially by the President and by men who wanted to be President. He has
bossed the state of New Jersey almost as long as he has ruled Jersey City.
He
has mingled intimately with leaders of medicine and the clergy and, in a
famous civil-liberties case, was firmly kneaded and processed by the august
Supreme Court of the United States. He is listed in Who's Who in America
and,
as vice-chairman of the Democratic National Committee, he is a leader in
the Party of Humanity.
From time to time, in his twenty-three years as mayor, he has enjoyed the
investigative attentions of committees sent by the United States Senate and
the New Jersey legislature and of agents of the Justice and Treasury
departments. He has been a frequent guest at the baronial Duke Farms in
Somerville, New Jersey, and he has dandled a teacup in the parlor of Mrs E.
T.
Stotesbury, the widow of a famous Morgan partner. Yet, in spite of all these
softening influences, he persists in saying, "I have went," and in using
singular subjects with plural verbs, and vice versa. In conversation he
bellows
oracularly and jabs a long finger into his listener's clavicle to
emphasize his points, most of which boil down to his favorite argumentative
phrase,
"You know I'm right about that!" His language, when he is aroused, is
that of the gin mill. He rules his city by the nightstick and the state by
crass political barter. He is loud and vulgar and given to public displays
of
phony piety during which his enemies are dismissed as "Red," or worse.
At sixty-four, he is still erect and muscular, and he is not above
physically assaulting a quailing civil employee whom he has called on the
carpet.
None dares to hit back, for fear of being harassed by Hague's police or
being held up to public disgrace in some devious way.
A legislative committee once determined that during a seven-year period
when Hague's salary, admittedly his only source of income, totaled $56,000,
he
purchased real estate and other property for a total outlay of nearly
$400,000. This was done through dummies, and payment was made in cash. Hague
has always shied from bank accounts. Although his salary as mayor is only
$8000, has never exceeded $8500 and has been as low as $6520, Hague lives
like
a millionaire. He keeps a fourteen-room duplex apartment in Jersey City
and a suite in a plushy Manhattan hotel. He owns a palatial summer home in
Deal, New Jersey, for which he paid $125,120 - in cash - and he gambles
regularly on the horse races. Before the present war began he went to Europe
every year, traveling in the royal suites of the best liners. Now he spends
more time in Florida and at Saratoga Springs, where he flashes a bank roll,
held together by a wide rubber hand, which always contains a few $1000
notes, a denomination of which Hague is childishly fond. Hague's public
squanderings have brought Jersey City's municipal finances to a dangerous
pass.
Wholly dominated by Hague, Jersey City is the worst mess of unpunished civic
corruption in the forty-eight states.
- - - -
From G.C. the moderator: here is a chronological
list of Jack Alexander's articles from
http://www.philsp.com/homeville/FMI/d19.htm#A956
ALEXANDER, JACK (stories)
The Third Party Gets a Rich Uncle (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Sep 3 1938
Missouri Dark Mule (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Oct 8 1938; (about Sen.
Bennett Clark).
The Last Shall Be First (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jan 14 1939; (about
Joseph Pulitzer).
He Rose from the Rich (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Mar 11, Mar 18 1939;
(about
William Bullitt).
Young Man of Manhattan (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Apr 15 1939
Reformer in the Promised Land (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jul 22 1939;
(about
Harold Ickes).
Boss on the Spot (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Aug 26 1939; (about Enoch
Johnson).
All Father’s Chillun Got Heavens (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Nov 18
1939;
(about Father Divine).
Iron Floats to Market (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Dec 23 1939
Border Without Bayonets (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jan 6 1940
Golden Boy; The Story of Jimmy Cromwell (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Mar
23
1940
King Hanky-Panky of Jersey (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Oct 26 1940
“Just Call Mr. C.R.” (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Feb 1 1941
Alcoholics Anonymous (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Mar 1 1941
Nervous Ice (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Apr 19 1941
Buyer No. 1 (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jun 14 1941
The Duke of Chicago (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jul 19 1941
The World’s Greatest Newspaper (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jul 26 1941
Cellini to Hearst to Klotz (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Nov 1 1941
Everybody’s Business (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Sep 26 1942; A great
library
can house romance as well as books.
Ungovernable Governor (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jan 23 1943
Cover Man (Norman Rockwell) (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Feb 13 1943
The Next Offensive in Lisbon (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Mar 6 1943
Panhandle Puck (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jan 1 1944
They Sparked the Carrier Revolution (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Sep 16
1944
Mugwump Senator (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Feb 2 1946
Rip-Roaring Baillie (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jun 1, Jun 8 1946
The Cities of America - Raleigh (30 of a series) (ar) The Saturday Evening
Post
Apr 12 1947
The Senate’s Remarkable Upstart (Joe McCarthy) (ar) The Saturday Evening
Post
Aug 9 1947
The Dagwood and Blondie Man (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Apr 10 1948;
about
Chic Young.
What Does Walter Reuther Want? (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Aug 21 1948
Stormy New Boss of the Pentagon (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jul 30 1949
The Drunkard’s Best Friend (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Apr 1 1950;
Alcoholics
Anonymous.
The Ordeal of Judge Medina (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Aug 12 1950
What a President They Picked (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Feb 24 1951
They “Doctor” One Another (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Dec 6 1952
The Amazing Story of Walt Disney (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Oct 31, Nov
7
1953
The Restaurants That Nickels Built (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Dec 11,
Dec 18
1954
Death Is My Cellmate (Aaron Turner) (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Mar 2
1957
The Bank That Has No Secrets (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Nov 30 1957
Mr. Unpredictable (Foster Furcolo) (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Aug 9 1958
The Cop with the Criminal Brother (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Nov 7 1959
What Happened to Judge Crater? (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Sep 10 1960
Dreamers on the Payroll (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Nov 19 1960
Sunny But Somber Island (Corsica) (ar) The Saturday Evening Post Jul 28 1962
- - - -
Message #6213 from Ernest Kurtz
(kurtzern at umich.edu)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6213
According to one common story, Alexander had
just finished a piece "exposing" the mob -- in
Philadelphia? Anyway, according to this story,
when he first heard of AA he thought that it,
too, had to be some kind of "racket," so he set
out to expose it.
I'll appreciate verification of this story if
anyone can come up with it, or its disproof.
ernie kurtz
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++++Message 6217. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: life of Jack Alexander
From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/11/2010 8:58:00 PM
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Bailey, Glenn -- you guys are really marvelous. Thank you very much.
Now I wonder whether the whole story of AA and Jack Alexander has been
collected and published anywhere? I recall some Akron mentions of
Alexander in the early correspondence. Take it away, you young sprites!
Thanks again.
ernie kurtz
On Jan 11, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Baileygc23@aol.com wrote:
> Boss Hague: King Hanky-Panky of Jersey
> By Jack Alexander
> Originally appeared in The Saturday Evening Post
> on October 26, 1940
> Edited by GET NJ, COPYRIGHT 2002
>
> http://www.cityofjerseycity.org/hague/kinghankypanky/index.shtml
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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++++Message 6218. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: life of Jack Alexander
From: Charles Knapp . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/12/2010 4:09:00 PM
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From brucec55 and Charles Knapp
- - - -
From: Bruce (
brucec55 at sbcglobal.net)
The Feb./March 2008 issue of Box 459 has a two
page article on A.A. and Jack Alexander. I do
not know who wrote it but the staff at GSO may
know.
Bruce
COPY OF THE ARTICLE ON JACK ALEXANDER:
"Jack Alexander Gave A.A. Its First Big Boost"
Box 4-5-9, February/March 2008
As the 1941 year began, Alcoholics Anonymous had about
2,000 members, many in large cities but also some in
small towns and other isolated places. A 1939 national
magazine article had attracted several hundred new
members, and newspaper articles in Cleveland and a few
other places had brought positive results. But for most of
North America, A.A. was still unknown and alcoholics
were dying without knowing that a new way of recovery
had been discovered and was working.
All of that, however, was about to change dramatically.
In less than a year, A.A. would suddenly triple its membership
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