Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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was because they represented "watered down" AA, in some people's minds. The irony of this is that books like the 24 hour a day book actually placed more of an emphasis on the spiritual angle than some conference-approved AA literature did and was not filled with "psychobabble" or "treatment concepts" as some people like to claim.
- - - - From: "grault" (GRault at yahoo.com) I think it may be a bit of a stretch to say flatly that the Conference did not turn down the 24 Hour book offer because it was too religious. In fact, that may have been one of the reasons, at least in the minds of some or many of the voting Delegates. The Conference Report cites the other reason (would be flooded with requests), but of course tact would suggest avoiding also saying that the book was too religious. Many GSC discussions and delegate motives do not find their way into the GSC Report.
than The Upper Room, but it often has a Christian ring to it, quotes the bible, etc. And incidentally, it seems to me that saying that the GSC actions are performed "by us" is true only to about the same extent that actions by the U.S. Congress are actions "by us" who live in the United States. Not a criticism, just an observation. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5681. . . . . . . . . . . . Two questions on Grapevine items From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 9:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Question #1- I have 2 different mini Grapevines. One has a picture of mountains on the cover and says "every month,all year" AA Grapevine our meeting in print it lists AA Steps and Traditions,Serenity Prayer,AA History,I am Responsible, and Unity Declaration I got this one around 1995 and was told that it was no longer going to be printed.
found an earlier copy of this mini Grapevine. It is orange and white and has pictures of Bill & Bob rather than the sketches in the newer copy.
History for someone new to AA. Does anyone know the history of this mini-Grapevine? When & Why they were produced and why they were stopped . Question #2- I have 3 copies of "The Best of Bill"-from The Grapevine The earliest are 5 separate pamphlets in a packet. They are Faith, Fear,Honesty,Humility, and Love. It shows July 1965 as a publishing date. The middle one is a single booklet, blue gray in color and on the first page says"NOTE: The statistics on pages 4 and 5 were current in 1961. AA membership is now estimated to be close to two million worldwide." It shows copyrights of 1958,1961,1962,1986,1989,and 1990. The latest is book like and has a foreword that says "In 1988, as a result of the many requests over the years for the reprints of five of these articles--"Faith", "Fear", "Honesty", "Humility"and "Love"--a Collection entitled "The Best of Bill was Compiled" Were there more than these three publications of this Grapevine edition? It appears that there may have been one from 1961. Yours in Service' Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa. USA Please remember the 13th NAW in Sept on the left coast. It's our workshop..bring someone new.
From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 5:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Charlie, Each year Delegates are assigned to various committees within the Conference. Those committees are comprised of Delegates, Trustees and the GSO Staff. When the 4th Edition was being prepared, it was decided to keep working copies
down to as few people as possible. There were fears that if everyone reviewed
the work in process some stories might get out and our Copyright might get compromised. Therefore the Literature Committee members were the ones who saw the final copy and sent a recommendation to approve it to the full Conference. The 2001 Conference approved and it was sent to publication. I was fortunate to know the Delegate from my Area who was on that literature Committee and I know that she took her responsibility very seriously and did the very best she could in the review and approval process. Once the book came out, the fellowship found some things they didn't like. In 2002, some members objected to the sentence in the Forward to the Fourth Edition that said "Fundamentally, though, the differnce between an electronic meeting and the home group around the corner is only one of format". Many of our members disagreed with this assesment. The Literature Committee recommended that the sentence be deleted. The 2002 Conference agreed and the Forward was changed.
while introducing new stories to help new people relate. In the process, some existing stories were edited and punctuation was updated. As people read the book, some noticed the differences in their favorite stories. At the 2003 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring "The Housewife Who Drank At Home", Me, An Alcoholic?", "Another Chance", and "Freedom
From Bondage" to the Third Edition version. There had been an earlier Conference Advisory Action saing that Dr. Bob's story
should not be changed without written permission of 3/4 of all registered groups. The punctuation in "Dr. Bob's Nightmare" had been updated from the Third Edition version. Many of us thought that was within the spirit of that Advisory Action since it did not change the content and since that kind of editing had occurred in earlier editions. Some members submitted an Agenda item because they thought that even minor changes violated the previous Advisory Action and that no Conference had approved the specific changes. At the 2004 Conference, the Literature Committee recommended against restoring the punctuation in "Dr. Bob's
Nightmare" to that of the Third Edition. When this recommendation came to the
Conference, A Floor Action was submitted and the full Conference overrode the
Literature Committee. When our Delegate gave his Conference report he told us that he was prepared to vote against the change in accordance with the wishes of many of us in the area. He finally voted for the Floor Action because he saw that it was an issue that was deviding AA and while he had an obligation to our
Area, he had a bigger obligation to AA as a whole. I was never so proud of someone who disagreed with me as I was that day. I also saw a post that said that Hazeldon also edits and changes publications. While that may be true, the point that I was making is that the if AA were to accept a book for publication, the author would no longer own it. The fellowship could change it in significant ways without even consulting the original author. This includes content as well as grammer or punctuation. My wife and I are tapers from the St. Pete, Florida area. We have a lot of people with 50 Plus years of sobriety. When I record them at a group anniversary or at their anniversary, I will sometime send a copy to the GSO Archives. I always have to provide a release to GSO. Theoretically this gives them the right
to splice it any way they wish. Of course, I don't expect them to do that. It is
just that I have given up all rights just as the author of a book would have to do. Jim H --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Parker" wrote:
> > What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare > and which foreword was changed?? > > Charlie Parker > Ace Golf Netting > 828 Wagon Trail > Austin, TX 78758 > Toll free 877-223-6387 > > -----Original Message----- > From: momaria33772 > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM > > I'd like to share one other thought I have had > every time anyone has brought up publishing of > any materials like these. Would the people who > love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to > have it changed at some future Delegate > Conference based on some objection that > someone in my home group had and got submitted > to the Conference Agenda? > > For those who don't believe that could happen, > I would point out that both the fourth edition > versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare > have been changed based on submissions by > members and groups in the US and Canada. I > could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour > Book being radically different from the one > originally published. > > Jim H. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5683. . . . . . . . . . . . Richmond Walker''s Life From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 6:01:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Richmond Walker's own autobiographical memoir: http://hindsfoot.org/rwvt.html (Bill Pittman thought that this was a transcript of a lead which Rich gave in Rutland, Vermont in 1959, which was the way this was first posted on the Hindsfoot site. Mel Barger and I eventually came to feel, however, that this was more likely a written memoir composed by Rich at some point.) A short biography of Richmond Walker: http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html (Based on the preceding memoir plus some of the autobiographical passages in the Twenty Four Hour book.)
spirituality vs. religion From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 5:52:00 PM
claims made by the Conference and others, I would not discount the potential effect that acceptance of the 24 Hour book would have had on the more mundane matter of Bill W's royalty agreement. The 1951 Conference approved an increase of Bill's royalties from 10% to 15%. The final Conference report states: ============================= "It was reported that the Trustees of the Foundation, following Dr. Bob's death,
had voted to increase Bill's royalty on the Big Book from 10 per cent to 15 per
cent. This author's royalty would also apply to other Books the Trustees are anxious to have Bill prepare for their consideration in the future. The chairman reported that Bill insisted that this increase be approved by the General Service Conference. A motion approving the action of the Trustees was approved
unanimously by the Delegates. In addition, the Conference approved unanimously a motion recommending to the
Trustees of the Foundation that steps be taken to insure that Bill and Lois receive book royalties so long as either one shall live. This motion was adopted after it was disclosed that under the existing arrangement Bill would have no legal basis for claiming royalties upon the expiration of the Big Book copyright and that no provision exists for Lois in the event of Bill's prior death. It was pointed out that, in the original stock set-up of Works Publishing, Inc.,
Bill had assigned royalties to the Foundation. Later, he had turned over to the
Foundation his original 200 shares of stock, whose recent earnings have averaged
$7,000-$8,000 [note: $62,000-$71,000 in 2008 dollars] annually. Thus, at one period Bill had neither stock or royalties. Prior to World War II, Bill had an average weekly income of about $30 [note: $455 in 2008 dollars] from proceeds of the "Rockefeller dinners." Later he received a drawing account of $25 a week, enabling him and Lois to move to Bedford Hills (N.Y.). When war broke out, with the possibility that he might be recalled to active duty, Bill suggested, on the basis of his authorship of the Big Book, that he be granted a royalty on book sales, as a means of providing income for Lois. This has been Bill's only source of income, with one exception, since that time. The Trustees have repeatedly offered to place him on a salaried basis, but these offers have been declined. The "exception" occurred several years ago when it was discovered that Bill's
annual income for the preceding seven years that averaged $1,730---slightly more
than $32. a week. The Trustees thereupon made a grant to Bill equivalent to $1,500 for each of those seven years, out of which he was able to purchase his Bedford Hills house. Inflation and the decline in book sales have combined to cut Bill's income practically in half in the past year. The five per cent increase in royalty means that his earnings will once more approximate those of three years ago.
movement
have troubled him deeply, Bill reported. He concluded that there was "no other
way to go on" and that as long as he is devoting his full time to the movement, even though he would not object to a hair shirt himself, "he had no business putting one on Lois." ============================= It seems that it would have been very awkward (at best) for Bill to justify claims to royalties on his yet-to-be-written works when one of the most popular books circulating in the Fellowship was being offered gratis. That's just speculation on my part but it seems plausible. I'd suggest the same consideration for the "Little Red Book" (one of my favorites). Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Chesnut Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 3:04 PM To: AAHistoryLovers group Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion
(trysh.travis at gmail.com) I'd like to politely disagree about the role religion played in the Conference decision not to approve *24 Hours a Day.* I have seen Richmond Walker's correspondence with the GSO and Literature Committee members on this matter at the Archives in New York, and it is fairly clear there that religiosity was an issue.
Walker wrote angrily about the rebuff he'd received from the Conference. Describing the official response to the proposal that "AA Publishing should accept the publication rights to the book *24 Hours a Day,*" Walker claimed that "favoring this proposal, the statement is made: 'The Book is accepted and used by a number of AAs who say they find it helpful.'" In opposing this proposal, two statements are made. One is, 'If a precedent is set, through acceptance of this offer, how would the movement be able to deal with the problem of many other booklets, for which Conference approval would undoubtedly be sought?....' The 2nd Statement is 'Since the booklet is regarded by some as having religious overtones, how could the movement justify its entrance into a field of publishing in which misinterpretation and misunderstanding could arise?'"
is a "book," not a "booklet," Walker goes on to respond to what must have been a delegate's or a committee's "statements" at some length: "This book carefully refrains from any mention of religion, and it has no more 'religious overtones' than the Big Book. It is largely spiritual and inspirational, but so is the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous.' ... There is no mention of religion in the whole book, for instance, the word 'Christ' or 'Jesus' is never mentioned, nor is it ever advised that we go to church. Where then, is the 'religion'? ... we have a spiritual program" why try to deny it? ... I do not think that either of these statements opposing the proposal have been fairly stated, nor do I think that they have any basis in fact." (RW to OKP, Box 73, Folder C.) We lack a "smoking gun" where someone explicitly states "AAWSO does not want to take over publication of the book because it is too religious," but the content of this letter makes it pretty clear, I think, that Walker got that message. Further, in a response to an "Ask-It Basket" question at the 1968 Conference, "Why can't we have a 24-Hour book printed by G.S.O.?" the statement was made that "The 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' book was offered to A.A.W.S. some years ago. The Conference then felt it was too spiritually or religiously oriented. A.A.W.S. would be reluctant to put out a similar book. since it has no wish to compete with this book. "The A.A. Way of Life' seems to serve the same need." (Conference Report 1968, p. 27).
of uneasiness with Walker's religiosity. The logistical and procedural reasons the Conference had for declining the book were real, but so was a skittishness about the book's palpable Christian overtones. I say they are "palpable" because while Walker is correct that Christ, Jesus, and church are never mentioned in *24 Hours,* it routinely alludes to and quotes from the Christian Bible. (I'm just skimming through my copy at random here .... Quote from St. Paul, 26 April; references to parable of the Prodigal Son, 12-13 March; quote from Mark 13:13, "he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved," 19 Feb, etc.) Walker is clearly drawing on many other spiritual sources-- including, as Glenn has pointed out elsewhere, the "New Thought" beliefs he probably developed in the Emmanuel Movement in Boston. Even if it doesn't dominate the book, however, there is a clear pattern of Christian imagery and language present, enough that Walker's claim that "there is no mention of religion" seems a bit naive, and also enough, I think, so that reasonable people might find the book too "religious."
particularly concerned about this issue in the mid-1950s in my forthcoming book (which, as some of you know, I have been working on for MANY 24 hours!). We're still a few months away from the publication date, but you can get a preview of the finished product here:
spirituality vs. religion From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/8/2009 6:32:00 PM
various "Christian Bible" snippets in both the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It also appears as though he used significant Christian thought although veiled in his discussions of "foundations and cornerstones" in Chapter 4 and elsewhere.
(i.e non-denominational religious) in nature and AA is the fruit of a tree that was called the Oxford Group, a "First Century Christian Fellowship".
private correspondence. God Bless John B. - - - - From: "Rich Foss" (rich.foss at comcast.net) It is interesting to note that the first prayer in the 24 hour book is a Sanskrit proverb. Does that suggest that it is a translation of a Hindu prayer? - - - - From: Jared Lobdell (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) Both GOD CALLING and GOD AT EVENTIDE (same two listeners) are available now, and GOD CALLING has been a staple of Christian publishers (including Spire and Revell) for the last -- what? -- three quarters of a century? We know Bill didn't care to link AA too closely to the OG (MRA, whatever) -- not sure any other reason is needed for his opposing (and thus AA's opposing) a book based on a well-known OG book.
From: Glenn C. (glennccc at sbcglobal.net) Jared, Other than the automatic writing, what distinctive Oxford Group doctrines do you see in God Calling by Two Listeners, which Richmond Walker copied over into Twenty-Four Hours a Day?
never found anything in God Calling that seemed to me to be an identifiably Oxford Group idea: no talk of the Four Absolutes, no Five C's, no statement of the necessity of making restitution, no confession by the Two Listeners of their own sins. And most importantly, no indication that the Two Listeners had ever attended Oxford Group meetings themselves. Glenn IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5686. . . . . . . . . . . . 24 Hour Book From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/9/2009 4:30:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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