Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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Message #4756 Hi everyone, Audrey Borden here with a response to LD Pierce's post. Everything I learned about Barry Leach is recorded in the book "The History of Gay People in Alcoholics Anonymous: From the Beginning." A transcript of his wonderful talk at the 1985 Twin Cities Roundup, "The Gay Origins of AA's Third Tradition," appears in Chapter 2. Other topics include a comparison of treatments for alcoholism and homosexuality, the debate in AA over meetings for gay alcoholics, the development of gay meetings, interviews with pioneering lesbian and gay addiction pro- fessionals, the history of AA's pamphlet AA and the Gay/Lesbian Alcoholic, the story of Alcoholics Together (a parallel AA organization for gay alcoholics in southern California from 1968-1982), and many stories of recovery and wisdom from gay (and straight) AA's with long-term sobriety. Best, Audrey
From: Bent Christensen . . . . . . . . . . . . 4/29/2009 3:04:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Glenn, dear group Is there any facts or indications, why the New York AA office turned down the offer from both Ed Webster and Richmond Walker?
Bent Christensen Valmuevej 17 6000 Kolding Tlf. 23 84 54 26 www.pass-it-on.dk http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/StoreBog_studie/
Emne: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: Father Ralph Pfau Til: "AAHistoryLovers group" Dato: tirsdag 28. april 2009 23.21 Richmond Walker offered Twenty Four Hours a Day (the second best selling AA book
of all time) to the New York AA people back in the 1950's and they turned him
down. Ed Webster offered The Little Red Book to them, and they turned him down
too. The only books the New York AA office were publishing back then were books written by Bill W. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5665. . . . . . . . . . . . Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Bruce C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 12:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Why the 24 Hour book was not published by A.A. Hi All We have heard various reasons why A.A. never published the 24 Hour a Day Book, that is currently published by Hazelden but, here is the real story. This is from the Final Report: Fourth General Service Conference of A.A. 1954, page 20:
of the publisher who wished to give to A.A. Publishing, Inc. publication rights to the booklet, 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day.'
this proposal and answering certain objections to the proposal, was read to the Conference. The letter noted that current net profit from sales of the booklet is about $5,300 annually.** Requests that A.A. Publishing, Inc. undertake publication of the booklet have been received from many areas, largely as a result of suggestions by the present publisher, it was reported. Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of this booklet and expressed fear that A.A. Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so. The Delegate from the State in which the booklet is published said it was the consensus of his group and of his area that the proposal not be approved. Following full discussion of the proposal, the Conference adopted a resolution that publication rights to 'Twenty-Four Hours a Day' not be accepted and further asked that the publisher be thanked for his offer."
the Florida AA archives, show that Rich took this profit every year and gave it to the Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the entire sum to the New York office.
group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948 to 1954), they never kept a penny of the profits from its sale for themselves. GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5666. . . . . . . . . . . . Publishing the 24 Hour book and Little Red Book From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 3:25:00 PM
York
AA office turned down the offer from both Ed Webster and Richmond Walker," to let the New York office take over publishing their books? - - - - (1) We remember how Bill W. had encountered such enormous difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Big Book in 1939. In 1952 to 53, he met even more difficulties in obtaining the money to publish the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions. Finally, in desperation, he entered into a deal with Harper and Brothers, a commercial publisher, where two editions would be published, one for
AA members, and the other a commercial version (for fifty cents more per copy).
By later standards, this would probably have been regarded as a breach of the
Traditions, but it was the only way Bill could figure out to raise the money to print his new book. See Pass It On, pages 355-6. On the other hand, the authors of the Twenty Four Hour book and the Little Red
Book (together with the AA groups which had sponsored those two books, the Daytona Beach group in Florida and the Nicollet Group in Minneapolis), had apparently effortlessly been able to raise the money to publish those two books
and keep them in print. The New York office only had the money to publish and promote ONE BOOK at that
time. Should the manuscript to Bill W's Twelve and Twelve be tossed back in a file cabinet, and never receive publication, so the New York office could take over publishing Twenty Four Hours a Day, or the Little Red Book? There was a period, according to Ernest Kurtz, when more AA members had their
own copy of the Twenty Four hour book than there were who had a copy of the Big
Book. In my part of Indiana, it was the little black book that all the AA people carried around with them all day long, not the Big Book. And the Little Red Book was a direct competitor to the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, and was not only selling extremely well, but was far easier for beginners to read and understand. So both these books were already doing better than anything Bill W. had ever written. They most certainly did NOT need New York's help. Does anybody seriously think that the manuscript of the Twelve and Twelve should
have been tossed in a file cabinet and not published, just to take over publishing some other book that was already doing well? (2) When Richmond Walker asked the New York office to take over publishing Twenty Four Hours a Day in 1953, the response was an almost immediate "no." See http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html Not only did they not have the money in New York to take over printing it, they
did not yet, at that point in 1953, know for sure that the just-published 12 and
12 was going to be successful. When Ed Webster and Barry Collins offered New York the Little Red Book, New York's response, naturally enough, was identical. New York was putting all of its money into first the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions (in 1953), next the second edition of the Big Book (in 1955), and finally Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age (in 1957). (3) And Bent, there here arose an even more important question: Why SHOULD the
New York AA office be turned into a huge publishing house, with all the financial concerns and monetary investment which that would entail? The response by the Delegates to Richmond Walker made it clear that they most certainly did NOT see that as the proper role of the New York AA office: "Comment by the Delegates indicated they felt it unwise to set a precedent in the case of this booklet and expressed fear that A.A. Publishing 'would be flooded with similar requests' if it did so." IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5667. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Is the silkworth.net site down? From: Jim M . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 1:15:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good day my AAHistoryLover friends! The problem is the doctors wrote me out of work for a year on two separate occasions. I was unable to continue working after July 24th 2007 and am using Bender And Bender to obtain Social Security.
http://silkworth.net/ site back online is quite small, I nevertheless do not have it at this point. It is frustrating to say the least. I do hope I am able to get it back online soon. Just haven't figured out how yet.
Ever grateful, Jim M.
(silkworthdotnet at yahoo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5668. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/4/2009 5:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All, Thanks to Bruce for his reply which brings up a related issue that I would like to address. The original question and some of the responses referred to the book being refused by the "New York AA Office". There may be some who do not understand that the decision was really made by the representatives of all the groups in the US and Canada. The "New York AA Office" followed the decision made by these representa- tives (Delegates). There seems to be a feeling by some that GSO runs things, often in opposition to the groups and members. I think it is our responsibility to make it clear that we are the them that makes these decisions.
every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreward and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5669. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Archives Historie . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 1:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From the Daytona Florida Archives, The moderator GFC is absolutely right on and correct. Not a penny was kept here in Daytona and was all past on to GSO. We have the papers to prove this fact also. So when you visit Daytona please come in and visit the archives display in our Intergroup office where you mary see these papers and much much more. Thank you. David in Daytona - - - - Subject: Publishing the 24 Hour book To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 12:20 AM
the Florida AA archives, show that Rich took this profit every year and gave it to the Daytona Beach AA group, which in turn sent the entire sum to the New York office.
group were publishing the 24 Hour book (1948 to 1954), they never kept a penny of the profits from its sale for themselves. GFC IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5670. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Publishing the 24 Hour book From: Charlie Parker . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 1:38:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII What were the changes to Dr Bob's Nightmare and which foreword was changed?? Charlie Parker Ace Golf Netting 828 Wagon Trail Austin, TX 78758 Toll free 877-223-6387
From: momaria33772 Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:51 PM
every time anyone has brought up publishing of any materials like these. Would the people who love and use the 24 Hour book be prepared to have it changed at some future Delegate Conference based on some objection that someone in my home group had and got submitted to the Conference Agenda? For those who don't believe that could happen, I would point out that both the fourth edition versions of the Foreword and Dr. Bob's Nightmare have been changed based on submissions by members and groups in the US and Canada. I could easily see today's version of the 24 Hour Book being radically different from the one originally published. Jim H. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5671. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: the 24 Hour book and spirituality vs. religion From: Ben Humphreys . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/5/2009 7:27:00 PM
down (the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was too religious. Live and learn. Thanks for your explanation. We all used it when I came in and I still use it everyday.
spirituality vs. religion From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 3:39:00 PM
heard that the Conference turned it down (the 24 Hour Book) on the grounds it was too religious." Yes, I have heard people say that too, but that was not so. In fact, the reason why the 24 Hour Book became so popular in AA so quickly, was because it provided a replacement for a book which some AA members DID regard as "too religious," namely, The Upper Room. From 1935 until the publication of the 24 Hour Book in 1948, the main meditational book used by AA people was this Southern Methodist publication called The Upper Room. And as noted, the reason why AA people all over the US and Canada began using the 24 Hour Book right away, was because they wanted a meditational book that was not filled with so much Christian religious phraseology.
a substitute for The Upper Room precisely because IT WASN'T VERY RELIGIOUS in the traditional Christian sense. No references in the 24 Hour Book to Jesus or requirement of belief in Christ, and hardly any scripture quotations.
24 Hour Book, was sensitive to these issues. His father, Joseph Walker, had been one of the leading atheists in the United States (he wrote a book defending atheism, and was one of the signers of the original Humanist Manifesto). Rich himself, his son told me, attended the Unitarian Church: http://www.uua.org/aboutus/index.shtml "Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion with Jewish-Christian roots. It has no creed. It affirms the worth of human beings, advocates freedom of belief and the search for advancing truth, and tries to provide a warm, open, supportive community for people who believe that ethical living is the supreme witness of religion." THE UPPER ROOM http://hindsfoot.org/uprm1.html "From 1935 to 1948, most A.A. members read The Upper Room every morning for their morning meditation. Although the Oxford Group had the greatest influence on the development of early A.A., this little paperback booklet may well have been the second greatest influence on early A.A. spirituality. This article gives selections from the readings in some of the issues of The Upper Room published in 1938 and 1939, along with commentary explaining some of the ideas which A.A. drew from this source: the understanding of character and character defects, happiness as an inside job, the Divine Light within, warnings against being too imprisoned by doctrines, dogmas and church creeds, the dangers of resentment, instructions about how to pray, entering the Divine Silence, learning to listen to God, opening the shutters of my mind to let in the Sunlight of the Spirit, taking life One Day at a Time, and above all, remembering that God is present with me at all times: 'Nearer is he than breathing, closer than hands or feet.'"
people from a number of different Protestant denominations, but many Roman Catholic families over the years have also kept copies of The Upper Room in their homes for their own private devotions. In fact, the Southern Methodists have always had strong links to the Roman Catholic tradition as well as the Anglo-Catholic tradition. So for example, as Fiona Dodd pointed out to me, the Upper Room website currently includes instructions on the spirituality of St. Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), who was the spiritual master whom both Sister Ignatia and Father Ed Dowling looked to as their great spiritual guide:
making heavy use of traditional Christian language and imagery.
broke with that almost completely, and devised language and imagery which could be used by anyone who believed in a transcendent Higher Power and the need to practice love, unselfishness, honesty, and purity in our daily lives.
Fr. Pfau
From: nuevenueve@ymail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 2:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello Group: I was reading part of Fr. Ralph Pfau's "The Golden book of Sanity" and remember Fr. Pfau wrote something approximately like this:
makes his election in subjects of AA without waiting for the interference or criticizing from the part of his companions< referring to a letter to him from Bill W. The question is, is there a website/book/other in which one could find all the correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau?
and Fr. Pfau From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/6/2009 4:08:00 PM
where we could find the correspondence between Bill W. and Fr. Ralph Pfau.
Archivist, she very kindly located several of Bill W.'s letters referring to Ralph Pfau, letters referring to one particular question I had asked her about. Bill was unhappy with both Fr. Ralph and Lillian Roth because they had broken their anonymity in print (Fr. Ralph in his autobiography which he published in Look magazine in 1958 and Lillian Roth in her autobiography, I'll Cry Tomorrow, which came out in 1954.
were a whole lot more letters in which Bill W. was either writing to Fr. Ralph or mentioning his name in a letter to someone else. Unfortunately, I have so far been unable to find out whether anyone kept Fr. Ralph's papers after his death. One of his nieces, who took care of a lot of things after his death, told me that she did not know where they had gone, or even if anyone had kept them at all. The Convent of the Good Shepherd in Indianapolis, where he was the Confessor, is no longer in existence, I have been told. If his papers still exist any place, it is possible that there might be copies of letters from him to Bill W. there. If anybody knows where Fr. Ralph's papers are now, or if anybody would like to go through the AA Archives in New York looking for references to Fr. Ralph in Bill W.'s correspondence, it would certainly be useful to AA historians.
Priest's Own Story," Look, Vol. 22, No. 5 (March 4, 1958): 84-97; and "Out of the Shadows," Look, Vol. 22, No. 6 (March 18, 1958): 85-98. Lillian Roth, I'll Cry Tomorrow (New York: Frederick Fell, 1954). Lillian first joined Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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