Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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on the sponsor, when carried past the earliest stages of recovery, often becomes damaging to both parties. It has already been pointed out that we stay sober through reliance on the A.A. program, not on any one member, so the newcomerâs chances in this situation may not be very
good. And the sponsor may either feel harried by constant, unreasonable demands, or feel flattered and let the ego build up dangerously. How can this dilemma be solved without leaving the newcomer disheartened? Supposedly, the sponsor has been seeing that the newcomer meets many other A.A.s; maybe now
is the time to redouble the effort, seeking out those likely to be extra congenial. If this tactful gambit fails, some sponsors have tried a direct approach, talking over the problem frankly with the newcomer. And if even this has no effect, the sponsor's best solution
may be to say, firmly and kindly, that he or she will no longer be available any time the newcomer wishes - but will keep in touch, with an occasional friendly call. Now it is up to the newcomer. One course is to find another sponsor. Or the newcomer may have achieved enough inner strength without realizing it, and can now go on to the next stage, substitute other kinds of A.A. friendship for sponsorship, start working the program in his or her own way, and take on personal responsibility in everyday life.
 When and how does the sponsor let the newcomer go? Usually the relationship does not really end at any definite point. Without any
discussion, it just changes gradually as the newcomer grows in A.A. A wise sponsor is delighted when the new member begins to take initiative in making a widening circle of friends, becomes active in the group, and extends the hand of welcome to the latest
newcomers. A successful sponsor-newcomer partnership is a special sort of bond, remembered gratefully on each side, even if the two no longer are close. But it may also develop into a lasting friendship, and when it does, both partners have been heard to say, "Now
we sponsor each other."  From the AA Pamphlet Questions and Answers on Sponsorship  --- On Mon, 6/22/09, allan_gengler From: allan_gengler Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:45 PM Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics Anonymous (The
Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the rule, from the beginning, and
not something added later. Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped a few times.
But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored Bill D., etc. In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing from modern AA. Also in that book it's described how the group got together and pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to sponsor him. I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it was truly
possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, you would need to take
the advice in A Vision For You and seek out drunks to form a fellowship, thus
becoming a sponsor. I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional and how sober
drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for someone to ask them. Or even
the notion of being told "you must get a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily
and man decided to be my sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision
in the beginning. --Al --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com, Charlie C > >   I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing the 8th Step, it mentions that
one may want to refer to "older members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither place is a sponsor mentioned. >  >   My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is this correct? >  >   Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? Thanks, I learn so much from this group! > > Charlie C. > IM = route20guy >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5816. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Re: History of sponsorship From: Jon Markle . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 1:59:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Although the word "sponsor" or "sponsorship" does not appear in the first 164 pages of the Big Book, the whole chapter on "Working with others" certainly very well defines it. Perhaps the only reason the word was not used is that the membership at the time simply did not use that word/label as something associated with AA. "Sponsor" had a completely different meaning back then. And it would have been foreign, even conflicting, with the basic concept of our program at the time. Today, we know it differently. And it fits the description found in the Big Book, "Working with Others".
written, which DOES use the word and clearly by then, it was in common use and application.
essentially, a "must" if we want the full benefits of real recovery. Only those who are isolationists think otherwise. IMO.
9/9/82
Williams)
permanent." (M.McLaughlin) "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: allan_gengler > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:45 AM > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: History of sponsorship > >
> > > Even though SPONSORSHIP is not mentioned in the book Alcoholics > Anonymous (The Big Book) I would suggest that sponsorship was the > rule, from the beginning, and not something added later. > > Bill called Ebby his sponsor until death, even though Ebby slipped > a few times. But the chain of sponsorship starts with Rowland > Hazard, who sponsored Shep Cornell and Cebra Graves, who sponsored > Ebby, who sponsored Bill, who sponsored Bob who, together, sponsored > Bill D., etc. > > In "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers," it's clear that NO ONE just > sauntered in off the streets and decided to join AA. Instead they > were sponsored into the group FROM a hospital and wouldn't even > attend a meeting unless they went through Dr. Bob's Upper Room > treatment where they "made a surrender," often a key element missing > from modern AA. > > Also in that book it's described how the group got together and > pooled their money to bus a guy in who "supposedly" was the first to > get sober on JUST THE BOOK. When the bus arrived and a man, matching > his description, didn't get off the bus, the group asked the bus > driver. They were told of a guy under the seat drunk on his but. The > group of sober drunks, of course, helped the drunk off and began to > sponsor him. > > I always thought that was interesting and have often wondered if it > was truly possible to get sober ON THE BOOK ALONE. Even if you did, > you would need to take the advice in A Vision For You and seek out > drunks to form a fellowship, thus becoming a sponsor. > > I think the real question is when did sponsorship become optional > and how sober drunks stopped seeking to sponsor and waited for > someone to ask them. Or even the notion of being told "you must get > a sponsor," when did that start. Luckily and man decided to be my > sponsor so I never got to make that misguided decision in the > beginning. > > --Al > > --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Charlie C > wrote: >> >> I have been revisiting the "Little Red Book," a title discussed >> here at times, and was struck by the way it recommends doing one's >> 5th Step with a non-AA, e.g. a clergyman, doctor... In discussing >> the 8th Step, it mentions that one may want to refer to "older >> members" when unsure of how to proceed with amends. In neither >> place is a sponsor mentioned. >> >> My understanding is that the Little Red Book represents AA >> practice of the 1940s, in particular that developed by Dr. Bob. Is >> this correct? >> >> Most of all though, I am curious: when did sponsorship as we know >> it today become the norm? When did the tradition, suggested in the >> Big Book, of discussing one's 5th Step with an outsider become the >> exception, and using one's sponsor the rule? Are there any >> interviews with old timers or other records documenting this shift? >> Thanks, I learn so much from this group! >> >> Charlie C. >> IM = route20guy >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
> ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5817. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? From: barefootbill@optonline.net . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 3:57:00 PM
I had asked the same question to Ray G., archivist at Dr. Bob's House & Ray said
that Bill probably walked to Henrietta's (about three & a half miles). After talking to Dr. Bob, Bill was offered a ride back to the Mayflower but said he would rather walk. Just Love, Barefoot Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Harris Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:14 pm Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Mayflower Hotel to Sieberling Gatehouse.....transportation? To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com > Hello all > There is some discussion in our local group...this is along the > lines of trivia but some of us are curious....does anyone know > HOW Bill got from the hotel to the Gatehouse (i.e. bus..cab..or > what?) Thanks > Greg H. in Illinois > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5818. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Wino Joe? From: Wesley Brauer . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/23/2009 6:16:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Dave, I first heard " Wino Joe's " recording at a meeting in Tullahoma Tenn. I remember laughing at that list but for the life of me I cannot recall it .Itr
was a great lead ! Wes ________________________________ From: doci333 To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:21:37 PM Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Wino Joe?
an alcoholic. Joe mentioned only 2 or three from this humorous list. Anyone have the list. AA Love and Hugs, Dave G.
Illinois [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5819. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: "People places things" From: t . . . . . . . . . . . . 6/24/2009 12:57:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII here are a few examples of this phrase that I have run across. All but the first are from the AA Grapevine I'll paste the whole paragraph [not whole article though] so the phrase can be seen in the context it was used. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----\
----------------------- from "As Bill Sees It" [page/reading 251] "Are you really placing recovery first, or are you making it contingent upon other people, places, or circumstances? You may find it ever so much better to face the music right where you are now, and, with the help of the A.A. program, win through. Before you make a decision, weigh it in these terms." LETTER, 1949 ---------------------- AA Grapevine, August 1971 from article titled "Now I Want Myself" by F.H., Chicago, Ill.
day to remove myself from people, places, and things that tend to threaten my sobriety. Since being in AA, I have gained more friends than I could ever have imagined, friends who sincerely care about me and my welfare. I have one friend in particular, whom I call my guardian angel. Recently, I was in an automobile accident that almost cost me the use of my writing hand, and she encouraged me to write.
AA Grapevine, June 1978 from a letter by D. H. from San Francisco, Calif.:
grow up and stop blaming "people, places, and things" for our feelings. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, July 1981 from an article titled "Steps to Awareness" by T.J., Houston, Tex.
outside myself — for my name, for the answer to all my needs. I looked to people, places, and things and, of course, to booze. Ironically, the alcohol I used to find answers gave me the first step in identity — I am an alcoholic.
AA Grapevine, September 1981 from an article titled "Action Begins at Home" by C.A., Houston, Tex.
a terrifying, gut-wrenching panic. Alone within my four walls, I finally had to face the fact that in all those months of staying busy, I had taken no real action at all. I had completed tasks, even AA tasks like a Fourth and Fifth Step and a daily Tenth Step, but I had done them as a child does homework to avoid getting in trouble with his teacher at school. I finally realized that I had used constant activity, the distraction of people, places, and things, to avoid bumping into myself. ---------------------- Grapevine, February 1983 from an article titled "Acceptance" by E.B., Dover, Del.
She finally stopped blaming people, places, and things for her drinking and in the article: Only this time, I realized I was drinking because I wanted to and not because of any other people, places, or things. I could finally see the truth of what I had been told so many times: We get drunk because we take that first drink, not for any other reason. My emotions finally caught up with my intellect, and the two merged for a short time. ---------------------- Grapevine, July 1984 from an article titled "Sobriety Is an Inside Job" by L.P., Huntsville, Tex.
things, and ideas was still very poor a lot of times. I hid this as best I could. The AA program was getting into a lot of areas of my life — what a revelation! Now another action step was required, because I had become more conscious of yet another character defect after these few months of youthful sobriety. ---------------------- Grapevine, March 1988 from a letter by E. B. of Wentzville, Mo.:
which I feel when I read the Grapevine: I agree with this person, this person is way off base, but I guess it works for them, etc. However, my overall feeling was one of indifference. I didn't have a lot of interest in an issue on sponsorship because there was no direct connection to my program. After all, I had gone by the book. Shortly after treatment I got a sponsor who helped me through the Steps and helped me keep in balance when people, places, and things started to become my higher power. I always appreciated him very much and didn't take him for granted. We saw each other once a week and I called him once a week. On the other side of the coin my few attempts at sponsorship were disappointing. As you can see, the issue didn't apply to me since my little world was all neat and tidy. Then I got a phone call from a friend in the Fellowship last Saturday. My sponsor had died suddenly of a heart attack. I had never in my life had to deal with such a loss. The immediate feeling of aloneness was hard to bear. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, May 1989 from an article titled "Bingo Card of Life" by Joseph O., Meade, Md.
discharge. I had two article fifteens, one court-martial, seventeen days AWOL, thirty days' stockade time, and barely six months in the Army. Never mind the countless jobs I'd lost on the outside and my two alcohol-related civilian convictions. Drinking wasn't my problem; it was people, places and things. I wasn't sick — everyone else was. I wasn't ready for the First Step. I couldn't admit my powerlessness over alcohol or the unmanageability in my life. ---------------------- AA Grapevine, April 1994 from an article title "Time for Transition" by Annemarie M., Raynham, Mass.
don't drink and I go to AA meetings. I'm even more aware of just how powerless I am over other people, places, and things. Change has challenged me to turn more than ever to my home group, my sponsor, my service work in AA, my sponsees, the Steps, Traditions, and Concepts. To the God of my understanding, asking only for knowledge of his will for me . . . and the power to carry that out.
AA Grapevine, December 1995 from an article titled "Singleness of Purpose" by Lynn J., Saint John, N.B.
the disease of alcoholism and how it had made my life unmanageable. I thought that people, places, and things were the real problems. It took AA members with good long-term sobriety to help me get the focus back on me. When newcomers come in talking about outside issues, it's my responsibility to keep things on track in the same loving and careful way that others used to walk me through my early sobriety.
Grapevine, January 1997 from an article titled "A Powerful Assignment" by Ben N., White Plains, New York
going to say. But I was already quite proud of what I knew that I knew about the First Step. Then Vince answered. Everything got jumbled up but he put me at ease and I began to explain the First Step to him. I told him about the unmanageability — that my life had become very small; everything reduced to shoebox size. There wasn't very much in my life and no room for people. Then I launched into a dissertation on powerlessness. I really couldn't wait to get to this. I mentioned how we were powerless over people, places, and things. On and on I went, giving various examples — this was a full-blown, definitely AA-grounded, exposition. I waited for Vince to tell me how wonderfully I'd mastered the Step. I was ready to swell with pride. Then, in a soft voice he said: "It says 'powerless over alcohol.' " ------------------------------ AA Grapevine, April 1997 from an article titled "From Two-Stepping to Twelve-Stepping" by John M., Santa Barbara, California I learned from Al-Anon and private therapy that I'm powerless not only over alcohol, but also people, places, and things. ------------------------------ Grapevine, July 1997 from an article titled "EVERYTHING TO GAIN AND NOTHING TO LOSE" by Niurka R., Houston, Texas I've been in and out of several juvenile and adult penal institutions. I always made resolutions to change and never return. At the age of eighteen attempted to attend AA meetings in prison to change my life Yüklə 11,49 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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