Aa history Lovers 2009 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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Even so, fifteen days was pretty quick work.
(buckjohnson41686 at yahoo.com) Washington State, first meeting of the Seattle Group, April 19, 1941 held at New Washington Hotel. From "Our Stories Disclose ... A history of western Washington Area of Alcoholics anonymous 1939-2002", Second Edition page 12 &13. Published by western Washington Area of Alcoholics Anonymous, Seattle 2004.
Alcoholics Anonymous 1941...1966, copyrighted 1966 by Everett K.
How many of these groups, not meetings, flourished and continued? How many just met 1 or 2 times then stopped? How many can be confirmed and not just here say? I ask this because I remember that Bill and Fitz both asked Jimmy B to help out in Wash D.C. where AA was struggling and couldn't get off the ground. I've read what WAIA (Wash Area I.G. Assn) lists as their history and wonder what documentation they have that substantiates the "boys of 38" Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa
Groups
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/12/2009 10:42:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From J. Lobdell and Don Bennitt, three corrections to John B.'s list - - - - From J. LOBDELL > Original message from: "John Barton" > > > TIMELINE OF THE FIRST 25 A.A. GROUPS > > 12. New York: Orangeberg - Rockland State Hospital (December 1939) wrong -- ORANGEBURG > > 14. Pennsylvania: Philadelphia (February 13, 1940) WRONG -- FEB 28 -- Jim moved to Phila Feb 13 - - - - From: DONALD BENNITT (dbennitt at sbcglobal.net) The Chicago date is incorrect.....September 13, 1939 is Sylvias' sober date, the first meeting was September 20 1939.....
Groups
From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2009 3:13:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In order to keep the first 25 list accurate with source references please cite your source for dates of groups.
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) > Original message from: "John Barton" > > > TIMELINE OF THE FIRST 25 A.A. GROUPS > > 14. Pennsylvania: Philadelphia (February 13, 1940) WRONG -- FEB 28 -- Jim moved to Phila Feb 13
(dbennitt at sbcglobal.net) The Chicago date is incorrect... ..September 13, 1939 is Sylvias' sober date, the first meeting was September 20 1939.....
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2009 3:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A group start date is based on when the second sober alcoholic shows up to join
with the first sober alcoholic. When they had the first meeting does not determine the beginning of a group. That's the basis for defining the beginning of AA when Dr Bob, the second alcoholic, joined with Bill W to form the AA Fellowship (qualified by the date that Dr Bob had his last drink). It is also
the basis for defining the beginning of Akron Group #1 as July 4, 1935 when Bill
D left the hospital to join with Dr Bob to form Akron Group #1. From other postings, I think care should be exercised in people today labeling
groups as so-called "meetings" as opposed to "groups." Early AA made no such hair-splitting distinction. The long form of Tradition Three was first published in the April 1946 Grapevine in the article "Twelve Suggested Points for AA Tradition" and stated "... Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. Group." Cheers Arthur
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cindy Miller Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:27 PM To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First AA groups: Philadelphia, Wash. State, Wash. D.C.
PHILADELPHIA: From: Cindy Miller (cm53 at earthlink.net) well, I don't know how important it is to quibble over 2 weeks...BUT ...in regard to Philadelphia: Jimmy arrived in Philly on February 13. The first meeting was not held until Feb. 28. This date is validated by an existing letter that Jimmy sent to Clarence S. the next day (Feb. 29--leap year) in which Jimmy describes having a meeting with 7 drunks the day before. -cm - - - - From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) BTW the 1st planning meeting in Phila was on Feb 29th,1940. It was a leap year. Jimmy sent a letter confirming the date to Clarence "Snider"(He misspelled Snyder) in Cleve.,Oh in a letter on file at the S.E. Pa. I.G. Assn.
Archives. There were alcoholics meeting in the office of Dr C Dudley Saul two years before Jimmy brought AA to Philadelphia.(1938) This can be proven in the documentation of John Park Lee. The meetings were not AA meetings but were meetings of alcoholic patients of the good doctor. Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) The date Feb 13 is the date Jim B moved to Philadelphia, not the date he formed a group. Even so, fifteen days was pretty quick work.
(buckjohnson41686 at yahoo.com) Washington State, first meeting of the Seattle Group, April 19, 1941 held at New Washington Hotel. From "Our Stories Disclose ... A history of western Washington Area of Alcoholics anonymous 1939-2002", Second Edition page 12 &13. Published by western Washington Area of Alcoholics Anonymous, Seattle 2004.
Alcoholics Anonymous 1941...1966, copyrighted 1966 by Everett K.
How many of these groups, not meetings, flourished and continued? How many just met 1 or 2 times then stopped? How many can be confirmed and not just here say? I ask this because I remember that Bill and Fitz both asked Jimmy B to help out in Wash D.C. where AA was struggling and couldn't get off the ground. I've read what WAIA (Wash Area I.G. Assn) lists as their history and wonder what documentation they have that substantiates the "boys of 38" Yours in Service, Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, Pa
Wash. State, Wash. D.C. From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/15/2009 9:13:00 PM
tried
independently in 1937 or 1938, apparently. The 1995 WAIA History is on the net
w/o footnotes, tho' some letters are quoted. The Maryland Archives I saw at Minneapolis in 2000 have some letters from Ned F., but I don't recall if they have anything useful. > To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com > From: cm53@earthlink.net > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:26:33 -0400 > Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: First AA groups: Philadelphia, Wash. State, Wash. D.C. > > Philadelphia, Washington State, Washington D.C. > > PHILADELPHIA: > > From: Cindy Miller > (cm53 at earthlink.net) > > well, I don't know how important it is to quibble > over 2 weeks...BUT ...in regard to Philadelphia: > Jimmy arrived in Philly on February 13. The first > meeting was not held until Feb. 28. This date is > validated by an existing letter that Jimmy sent > to Clarence S. the next day (Feb. 29--leap year) > in which Jimmy describes having a meeting with 7 > drunks the day before. > > -cm > > - - - - > > From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) > > BTW the 1st planning meeting in Phila was on Feb 29th,1940. It was a > leap year. Jimmy sent a letter confirming the date to Clarence "Snider"(He > misspelled Snyder) in Cleve.,Oh in a letter on file at the S.E. Pa. I.G. Assn. Archives. > > There were alcoholics meeting in the office of Dr C Dudley Saul two > years before Jimmy brought AA to Philadelphia.(1938) This can be proven in > the documentation of John Park Lee. The meetings were not AA meetings but > were meetings of alcoholic patients of the good doctor. > > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz > Phila, Pa > > - - - - > > From: "J. Lobdell" > (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) > > The date Feb 13 is the date Jim B moved to > Philadelphia, not the date he formed a group. > Even so, fifteen days was pretty quick work. > > - - - - > > WASHINGTON STATE: > > From: buck johnson > (buckjohnson41686 at yahoo.com) > > Washington State, first meeting of the Seattle > Group, April 19, 1941 held at New Washington > Hotel. From "Our Stories Disclose ... A history > of western Washington Area of Alcoholics anonymous > 1939-2002", Second Edition page 12 &13. Published > by western Washington Area of Alcoholics Anonymous, > Seattle 2004. > > Material from "The History of Washington State > Alcoholics Anonymous 1941...1966, copyrighted > 1966 by Everett K. > > - - - - > > WASHINGTON D.C. > > From: Shakey1aa@aol.com (Shakey1aa at aol.com) > > AAHL members, > How many of these groups, not meetings, flourished and continued? How > many just met 1 or 2 times then stopped? How many can be confirmed and not > just here say? I ask this because I remember that Bill and Fitz both asked > Jimmy B to help out in Wash D.C. where AA was struggling and couldn't get > off the ground. I've read what WAIA (Wash Area I.G. Assn) lists as their > history and wonder what documentation they have that substantiates the "boys of 38"
> > Yours in Service, > Shakey Mike Gwirtz > Phila, Pa > >
> > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori al_Q\
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5871. . . . . . . . . . . . The voices who cry for sex and more sex
From: jacci.phillips . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/15/2009 7:22:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Big Book page 69 1st paragraph: "They think we do not have enough of it ...." The question is who are "they"? Thank you, Jacci - - - - From the moderator: "They" are "the voices who cry for sex and more sex" in the preceding sentence. Think Sigmund Freud and the flappers of the Roaring Twenties, to get a feel for what that era of history was like.
Interpretation of Dreams" appeared in 1899. He made a famous trip to lecture in the United States (at Clark University) in 1909. He developed his theory of the ego, the id, and the superego in the 1920 essay "Beyond the Pleasure Principle," and fully elaborated upon it in "The Ego and the Id" in 1923. Freud was part of a rebellion by some within the western world during that period against the extremely repressive sexual attitudes that had flourished during the reign of Queen Victoria (1837 to 1901). (And Roman Catholic theologians had been urging total virginity and abstinence from any kind of sex at all as the route to Christian perfection for ALL people ever since the period of the Cluniac reformers c. 900 to 1100 A.D.) Freud (and others like him) were rebelling against all that during the early decades of the twentieth century.
world (sometimes called "flappers") stopped wearing long skirts and started wearing short skirts that allowed men to see their ankles and legs, and even sometimes their knees. They danced the Charleston and the Black Bottom, and other dances which preachers of the period denounced as sexually lascivious and immoral. And some of them may in fact have been a bit more adventurous sexually than some of their mothers had been.
in 1881, was still wearing fairly long skirts when she was a young woman, as can been seen from her college photo, for example. By the time Lois Wilson was a young woman, skirts were a good deal shorter. And Lois openly acknowledge in her reminiscences (as they have been published) that she enjoyed sex, which a middle class Victorian era woman would never have said publically. So some of the difference in sexual attitudes were generational, but AA at the time the Big Book was written had people of both generations in it (Victorian and post-Victorian). In the 1960's and early 1970's, there was another wave of sexual rebellion in some parts of the world (the US and the UK for example), so the same sort of conflict once again arose between those who favored fairly open and tolerant sexual behavior, and those who preached against that kind of "permissivism," as they termed it, which they said was "destructive of family values" and so on.
From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/16/2009 11:45:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII AA group founded in Washington DC founded in, on, or near Oct 26 1939. AA referred four alcoholics to Fitz and one of them was Harden C.
marks the beginning of AA in Washington DC." The Washington Group: Foundations 1936 - 1941 P. 28 Revised and Expanded Edition Printed 1995 (WAIA) Archives Project Washington DC
in DC in 1936. A.A. Fact sheet 14 p.6 - - - - From G.C. the moderator: I am putting "October 28 or 29, 1939" on the Master List for the date of the first AA meeting in Washington DC, based on this document: http://www.aa-dc.org/ http://aa-dc.org/waia/Wash-Book-21Oct2008.pdf (page 31) "When Fitz moved to Washington, he became the southernmost representative of Alcoholics Anonymous, and he was therefore responsible for the territory south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Two of the four inquiries that were referred to him came from Washington, one came from lower Virginia, and one from North Carolina. One of the Washington drunks referred to Fitz by this letter was Hardin C. The first contact between Fitz and Hardin C, marks the beginning of the Washington Group. From this meeting of two men, the Washington Group grew and continued to expand over the decades." "The date of the meeting was two or three days after Fitz received the letter from New York dated October 26, 1939. If the mail took two days to arrive from New York, then the date of the founding of the Washington Group was October 28, 1939." - - - - In a message dated 7/16/2009, jlobdell54@hotmail.com writes: On Wash DC it's the boys of '39 (and Nov at that) tho' Florence and Fitz tried independently in 1937 or 1938, apparently. The 1995 WAIA History is on the net w/o footnotes, tho' some letters are quoted. The Maryland Archives I saw at Minneapolis in 2000 have some letters from Ned F., but I don't recall if they have anything useful. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 5873. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA meeting in Chicago From: DONALD BENNITT . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/16/2009 8:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am glad someone brought this up, it prompted me to investigate more, and ...... In the 1949 September issue of HERE'S HOW, The Chicago newsletter, there is an announcement that the first meeting was in Earl's house on September 21, 1939. I have never seen this date before, the record in the Chicago Archives is September 20 ..... I am going to change the date in my history record.
the first group should be when the second man showed up, Dick R. got in touch with Earl in August of 1938, Earl gave no actual day.
(dbennitt at sbcglobal.net) The Chicago date is incorrect.....September 13, 1939 is Sylvias' sober date, the first meeting was September 20 1939.....
think think From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 7/13/2009 12:12:00 PM
between the IBM and AA slogans - it's seems like speculation. Is there a non-anecdotal source for corroboration that it "... was adopted by AA members from a sign that came with early IBM calculating machines ..." T J Watson Sr coined the slogan "Think" in 1911 long before the forerunner companies evolved into the name "International Business Machines" in 1924. The slogan consisted simply of the single word "Think."
Arthur
From: Jon Markle (serenitylodge at mac.com) Re: Another of the slogans: Think think think This one was exlplained to me: Think it all the way through. Hugs for the trudge Jon (Raleigh) 9/9/82
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net) It seems to me that Arthur's warning should be taken seriously. It certainly appears that a lot of legend and creative myth-making has built up around this. I did a search on the internet for IBM and the word "think," and in every single case that word only appeared once. I could find no example at all of an IBM sign that had "Think Think Think" three times, let alone with the fanciful explanations that are sometimes given in AA legend about what these were supposed to mean. So to give a few examples out of many: IBM Archives: THINK Sign http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html [16] The "THINK" motto was developed by Thomas J. Watson, Sr., three years before he joined the forerunner of today's IBM in 1914. By the early 1930s, THINK began to take precedence over other slogans in IBM, and it appeared on signs such as this in IBM plants and offices, and in company publications, calendars and photographs all over the world. http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2024.html [17]
THINK was a one-word slogan developed by IBM founder Thomas J. Watson, Sr. It appeared in IBM offices, plants and company publications in the 1920s and in the early 1930s began to take precedence over other slogans in IBM. It eventually appeared in wood, stone and bronze, and was published in company newspapers, magazines, calendars, photographs, medallions -- even New Yorker cartoons -- and
it remained for years the name of IBM's employee publication. You can still find
echoes of Watson's motto in the brand name of IBM's popular notebook computers: the ThinkPad. This photograph shows a number of THINK signs rendered in a variety of languages for display by IBM employees around the world. http://home.comcast.net/~suptjud/IBMMachines.htm http://www.timewarptoys.com/think.jpg (on this webpage http://www.timewarptoys.com/gallery.htm ) http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2184.html [18]
It's 1940 and these 22 young men are operating an electric accounting machine
installation somewhere in IBM. We know it's an IBM installation because visible
in the photograph are an IBM job time recorder (for logging the start and end of
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