Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden and profound. For a moment I was alarmed, and called my friend, the doctor (Dr. Silkworth), to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked. Finally he shook his head saying, "Something has happened to you I don't understand. But you had better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you were." The good doctor now sees many men who
have such experiences. He knows that they are real. While I lay in the hospital the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They in turn might work with others. My friend had emphasized the ABSOLUTE NECESSITY of demonstrating these principles in ALL my affairs. Particularly was it IMPERATIVE to work with others as he had worked with me (what later became the last part of Step Twelve). Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for the alcoholic! FOR
IF AN ALCOHOLIC FAILED TO PERFECT AND ENLARGE HIS SPIRITUAL LIFE THROUGH WORK AND SELF-SACRIFICE FOR OTHERS, HE COULD NOT SURVIVE THE CERTAIN TRIALS AND LOW SPOTS AHEAD. If he did not work, he would SURELY drink again, and if he drank, he would surely die. Then faith would be dead indeed.
With us it is just like that." (So two or three days after Bill is admitted into the hospital on December 11th he has a spiritual experience AS THE RESULT of working almost all the Steps immediately and quickly in a few days. He THEN talks with his doctor about what happened to him on December 14th and is released from the hospital on the afternoon of December 18th).
Page 58:2 - "If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - THEN YOU ARE READY TO TAKE CERTAIN STEPS." (I'd like to suggest that they are talking about
TWELVE certain steps and you'll soon see why. Some say that we stay within the first three Steps for a year when you first get to AA, but please notice what it says next about Step Three on pages 63:4 -- 64:0.) Page 63:4 - "NEXT we launch out on a course of VIGOROUS action, the first step of which is a personal housecleaning, which many of us had never attempted. Though our decision (which is the Third
Step decision) was a vital and crucial step, it could have LITTLE PERMANENT EFFECT unless AT ONCE followed by a STRENUOUS EFFORT to face, AND to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us." (So it's saying that this Third Step decision is important but will have LITTLE PERMANENT EFFECT unless we IMMEDIATELY follow it up with an INTENSELY ACTIVE EFFORT to work Steps Four through Nine, because where we face these things that
block us from turning our will and our lives over to God is in Steps Four, Five, and Six; and where we get rid of what blocks us from turning our will and lives over is in Steps Seven, Eight, and Nine. So the way we turn our will and lives
over to the care of God as we understand Him is by IMMEDIATELY and STRENUOUSLY working AT LEAST the six middle Steps.) Page 72:2 - "We will be more reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person (doing a Fifth Step) when we see good reasons why we should do so. The best reason first: If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their
lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably they got drunk. Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they fell. We think the reason is that they never completed their housecleaning. They took inventory all right, but hung on to some of the worst items in stock. They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear; they only thought they had humbled themselves. But they had not learned enough
of humility, fearlessness and honesty, in the sense we find it necessary, until they told someone else all their life story (Fifth Step)." (It's talking about NEWCOMERS working ALL of the Steps.) Page 74:2 - "Notwithstanding the GREAT NECESSITY for discussing ourselves with someone (doing a Fifth Step), it may be one is so situated that there is no suitable person available. If that is so,
this step may be postponed, ONLY, however, if we hold ourselves in COMPLETE readiness to go through with it at the FIRST opportunity." (See also page 75:1.) Page 75:1 - "When we decide who is to hear our story (our Fifth Step), WE WASTE
NO TIME." (So after we write our three Fourth Step inventories of resentment, fear, and harms; it says we IMMEDIATELY share our Fifth Step.) Page 75:3 - "Returning home we find a place where we can be quiet for AN HOUR, carefully reviewing what we have done." (It's saying that IMMEDIATELY following our Fifth Step, we spend ONE HOUR
of undisturbed and uninterrupted quiet time, seeing if the foundation we have built with our first five Steps is done honestly and to the best of our ability. Then see page 76:1.) Page 76:1 - "If we can answer to our satisfaction (the questions we ask ourselves IMMEDIATELY following our Fifth Step in the previous paragraph), we THEN look at Step Six. We have emphasized willingness as being indispensable. ARE WE NOW READY to let God remove from us ALL the things which we have admitted are objectionable (in our Fourth and Fifth Steps)? Can He NOW take them ALL - everyone? If we still cling to something we will not let go, we ask God to help us be willing." (So Six immediately follows the hour we took after Five. So Five
and Six are both done on the same day.) Page 76:2 - "WHEN READY (which answers one of the questions of Step Six), we say something like this: 'My Creator, I am NOW willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you NOW
remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen.' We have then completed Step Seven." (In Step Six, we were asked if we were NOW ready. If we are, we then do Step Seven. If there are SOME defects we are NOT willing to go to God with, we pray for the willingness to ask God to help us with them, but go on to Step Seven with the
defects we ARE willing to ask God to help us with. Either way, Step Five, Six, and Seven are all done on the same day. Steps Three and Seven are then a daily striving and prayer, practiced for the rest of our lives.) Page 76:3 - "NOW we need more action, without which we find that "Faith without
works is dead." Let's look at Steps Eight and Nine. We have a list of ALL persons we have harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. We subjected ourselves to a drastic self-appraisal. NOW
we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which has accumulated out of our effort to live on self-will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol." (NOW is mentioned twice in this paragraph, and even says, "NOW we go out". So Steps Five through Nine are ALL done together (in rapid succession), according to the directions in the Big Book. If there are a few amends we are NOT willing to make, we pray for the willingness but proceed with the amends we ARE willing to make.) Page 83:3 - "Some people cannot be seen -- we send them an honest letter. And there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases (in doing Step 9). But we DON"T DELAY IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED." Page 84:2 - "This thought (the thought of the Ninth Step promises ALWAYS materializing IF we work for them) brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we CONTINUE to take personal inventory and CONTINUE
to set right ANY new mistakes AS WE GO ALONG (so the Tenth Step is NOT done just at night but should be done MOMENT BY MOMENT, AS WE GO ALONG throughout the day). We VIGOROUSLY commenced THIS way of living (the
Steps Ten and Eleven "way of living") AS WE CLEANED UP THE PAST (we begin to clean up the past in Step Nine.)." (So Ten and Eleven begin to be worked as soon as we start making amends.) "…It should continue for a LIFETIME (So we never stop working Step Ten)." Page 95:1 -- "Sometimes a new man is anxious to proceed (in the Big Book's Original Manuscript, this word was replaced with, "make a decision and discuss his affairs") at once, and you may be tempted to let him do so. This is sometimes a mistake (they are only talking about the first visit here). If he has trouble
later, he is likely to say you rushed him." (So it's saying that on the FIRST visit we shouldn't get the new person into the Steps yet, but please see 96:2 to see what it says about the SECOND visit.) Page 96:2 - Suppose now you are making your second visit to a (new) man. He has read this volume (the Big Book) and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. HAVING HAD THE EXPERIENCE YOURSELF, you can give him MUCH practical advice. Let him know you are available of he wishes to make a decision (Step Three) and tell his story (Steps Four and Five), but do not insist upon it if he prefers to consult someone else. Page 156:3 - But life was not easy for the two friends (Bill Wilson & Dr. Bob).
Plenty of difficulties presented themselves. Both saw that they MUST keep SPIRITUALLY active. One day they called up the head nurse of a local hospital. They explained their need and inquired if she had a first class alcoholic prospect. She replied, "Yes, we've got a corker (Bill Dotson, whose sober date is June 26,
1935). He's just beaten up a couple of nurses. Goes off his head completely when he's drinking. But he's a grand chap when he's sober, though he's been in here eight times in the last six months. Understand he was once a well-known lawyer in town, but just now we've got him strapped down tight." Here was a prospect all right but, by the description, none too promising. The use of SPIRITUAL principles in such case was not so well understood as it is now. But one of the friends said, "Put him
in a private room. We'll be down." Two days later, a future fellow of Alcoholics Anonymous stared glassily at the strangers beside his bed. "Who are you fellows, and why this private room? I was always in a ward before." Said one of the visitors, "We're giving you a treatment for alcoholism." Hopelessness was written large on the man's face as he replied, "Oh, but that's
no use. Nothing would fix me. I'm a goner. The last three times, I got drunk on the way home from here. I'm afraid to go out the door. I can't understand it." (Part of Bill D.'s First Step conclusion, and please notice the Twelfth Step work over
the next few paragraphs.) For an hour, the two friends told him about their drinking experiences. Over and over, he would say: "That's me. That's me. I drink like that." The man in the bed was told of the acute poisoning from which he suffered, how it deteriorates the body of an alcoholic and warps his mind. There was much talk about the mental state preceding the first drink. "Yes, that' me," said the sick man, "the very image. You fellows know your stuff
all right, but I don't see what good it'll do. You fellows are somebody. I was once, but I'm a nobody now. From what you tell me, I know more than ever I can't stop (more of Bill D.'s First Step conclusion)." At this both the visitors burst into
a laugh. Said the future Fellow Anonymous: "Damn little to laugh about that I can see." The two friends spoke of their SPIRITUAL experience and told him about the COURSE OF ACTION they carried out. He interrupted: "I used to be strong for the church, but that won't fix it. I've
prayed to God on hangover mornings and sworn that I'd never touch another drop but by nine o'clock I'd be boiled as an owl."
Next day found the prospect more receptive. He had been thinking it over. "Maybe
you're right," he said. "God ought to be able to do anything (Bill D.'s Second Step conclusion)." Then he added, "He sure didn't do much for me when I was trying to fight this booze racket alone." ON THE THIRD DAY the lawyer gave his life to the care and direction of his Creator (Bill D.'s Step Three decision), and said he was perfectly willing to do ANYTHING necessary (Steps Four through Twelve). His wife came, scarcely daring to be hopeful, though she thought she saw something different about her husband already. He had begun to have a spiritual experience. That afternoon he put on his clothes and walked from the hospital a free man. He
entered a political campaign, making speeches, frequenting men's gathering places of all sorts, often staying up all night. He lost the race by only a narrow margin. But he had found God is and in finding God had found himself. That was in June, 1935. He never drank again. He too, has become a respected and useful member of his community. He has helped other men recover, and is a power in the church from which he was long absent. (So Bill Dotson, or AA #3, got right into the Steps within a few days, as was the practice in early AA.)
Page 262:6 - The day before I was due to go back to Chicago (this is during the
summer of 1937), a Wednesday and Dr. Bob's day off, he had me down to the office and we spent THREE OR FOUR HOURS formally going through the Six Step program (which later became AA's Twelve Step program) as it was at that time. The six steps were: 1. Complete deflation (which later became Step 1). 2. Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power (which later became Steps 2,3,6,7 & 11). 3. Moral inventory (which later became Steps 4 & 10). 4. Confession (which
later became Step 5). 5. Restitution (which later became Steps 8 & 9). 6. Continued work with other alcoholics (which later became Step 12). Dr. Bob led me through ALL of these steps. At the moral inventory (Steps 4 & 5), he brought up some of my bad personality traits or character defects, such as selfishness, conceit, jealousy, carelessness, intolerance, ill-temper, sarcasm and resentments. We went over these at great length and then he finally asked me if I wanted these defects of character removed (Step 6). When I said yes, we both knelt at his desk and prayed, each of us asking to have
these defects taken away (Step 7). This picture is still vivid. If I live to be a hundred, it will always stand out in my mind. It was very impressive and I wish that every A.A. could have the benefit of this type of sponsorship today. Dr. Bob ALWAYS emphasized the religious angle VERY STRONGLY, and I think it helped. I know it helped me. Dr. Bob then led me through the restitution step, in which I made a list of ALL of the persons I had harmed (Step 8), and worked out ways and
means of slowly making restitution (Step 9). (So again, most of the Steps being worked in one day.) Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers, page 101 -- "Dorothy S.M. recalled the 1937 meetings…"The newcomers surrendered in the presence of all those other people." After the surrender, many of the steps -- involving inventory, admission of character defects, and making restitution -- were taken within a matter of days."
++++Message 6246. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Grave emotional and mental disorders, delusionary thinking From: Steven Harris . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/18/2010 12:29:00 AM
personailty disorders that I come to understand as alcoholism ... as well as the maladjustment to life that Dr. William Silkworth talks about in The Doctor's Opinion ... I really understand that I have not just been physically ill but mentally ill .... Thank u again cheers...
ter, has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views in another statement which follows. In this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe--that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life, that we were in full flight from reality, or were outright mental defectives. These things were true to some extent, in fact, to a consider- able extent with some of us. But we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well." "'The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are all familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps." They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision.'" "'There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, per- haps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.'" - - - - On 17 Jan 2010, at 04:17, Glenn Chesnut > As I understand it, the question you are asking is, what were they > talking about, in terms of modern psychological terminology, when they > referred on p. 58 of the Big Book to people "who suffer from grave > emotional and mental disorders," and when they referred on p. 62 of > the Big Book to "self-delusion"? > > This basic question has been asked a number of times over the years in > the AAHistoryLovers, in various kinds of ways, most recently in > Message #6195 > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6195 > > And so far, nobody has ever written a message back giving any > satisfactory answer. > > Let me try to give you a different kind of answer, however. There were > three basic models of alcoholism treatment in the early days, which > had
> extremely high success rates, and which were positively disposed > towards AA. > > 1.. Sister Ignatia's treatment program at St. Thomas Hospital in Akron. > They had a psychiatrist on staff, and when an alcoholic came in who > needed psychiatric help in addition to guidance in working the steps, > they sent that person to the hospital psychiatrist. There is a > chapter on > her program in Bill Swegan's book: > http://hindsfoot.org/kBS1.html > > 2. The Lackland Model developed by A.A. member Bill Swegen and > famous psychiatrist Dr. Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West (later copied by > Captain Joseph Zuska and A.A. member Commander Richard Jewell > for their Navy alcoholism treatment program at Long Beach, with equal > success). > http://hindsfoot.org/kBS5.html > In this treatment method, leadership of the treatment was shared > between a good psychiatrist and an A.A. member with a lot of quality > time in the program. Bill Swegan reports that only a certain > percentage > of the alcoholics whom they treated actually had severe psychiatric > problems, and that usually the only people who could actually profit > from psychiatric help were those who were a little better educated and > more aware of their own emotions. If the alcoholic's psychiatric > problems were crippling and could not be treated well enough to > restore that person to active duty in the Air Force, the person was > denied treatment for his alcoholism and discharged from the Air Force. > > 3. The Minnesota Model also tried to combine psychological help and > A.A. participation, starting around 1954 at Willmar State Hospital in > Minnesota, with great success. In the early 1960's, Hazelden also > began using this method, also with great success. > But then in 1966, Lynn C., who had continued to insist that Hazelden's > treatment regimen remain "pure A.A.," finally left the center, and the > mental health professionals came to strongly dominate Hazelden from > that point on. The philosophy became one of treating "chemical > dependency" using many different disciplines and treatment modalities. > For myself, I'm not sure that the present Hazelden program could still > be termed the classic "Minnesota Model" in any kind of way. > See http://hindsfoot.org/kBS5.html and William L. White, Slaying the > Dragon: The History of Addiction Treatment and Recovery in America > (Bloomington, Illinois: Chestnut Health Systems and Lighthouse > Institute, 1998). > But it is certainly clear that the combination of good A.A., > together with good psychological help for the small percentage > who need it, can be a very powerful and successful combination > in the treating of alcoholism and drug addiction. > > - - - - > > The conclusion I think we can draw, is that the three most successful > treatment programs which were developed during the early period of > AA history, combined total immersion into the AA fellowship, along > with psychiatric care for the small percentage who needed it. Having > even fairly severe psychological or mental problems was hardly ever > regarded as an automatic indication that one would never ever be able > to work the AA program or stay sober using the twelve steps. > > In my own experience, I have seen people get sober and stay sober > who were severely schizophrenic (I remember a woman in a meeting I > used to attend who heard one of the voices in her head telling her one > day to bite off one of her own fingers, so she did it -- but she > eventually > got sober, and stayed sober, and had a fair amount of serenity most of > the time). Also numerous people who were deeply bipolar. A young > woman with Down's syndrome. I used to sponsor a person with > ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). Borderline > Personality Disorder. > > So if you have an alcohol or drug program AND you also have severe > psychological problems, DO NOT give up hope and fall into despair, > and start saying to yourself, "Oh, I will never ever be able get > clean and sober." > > Instead, (a) start attending AA meetings and working the program, and > (b) get a good psychotherapist or psychologist or psychiatrist and let > that person help you too. Throughout AA history, people who have > done that, and done it as honestly as they could, have consistently > found sobriety, a good life, and a considerable amount of happiness. > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6247. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How quickly should the twelve steps be taken? From: stevec012000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2010 6:50:00 PM
(steven.calderbank at verizon.net) Page 98 in Not God claims that Bill finally took his fifth when he met Father Dowling. That was several years after his meeting with Ebby. I am sure Dr. Kurtz can elaborate on that more if he cares. Unless I am reading this wrong. - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) DR Bob said the steps simmer down in the last to love and service. People giving rules for the steps forget they are suggested, and our book is suggested only. There are stories in AA of Akron AAers taking a novice into an upstairs room and getting him on his knees and running him quickly through the required dogma of the time. - - - - From: "jax760" (jax760 at yahoo.com) From Appendix II, page 569 "What often takes place in a few months could hardly be accomplished by years of self-discipline."
or "spiritual awakening" also described as a "personality change", "religious experiences, "sudden and spectacular upheavals" "sudden revolutionary changes", "Godconsciousness", "vast change in feeling and outlook", "transformations", "profound alterations"
OF THESE STEPS....." which often takes place in a few months. "self discipline" ....trying to not to drink and just attending the meetings? God Bless - - - - From: "Elisabeth" (elisabeth98043 at yahoo.com) If you read the old literature, it says that the newcomers weren't even allowed into the meetings until they had done all 6 steps (as they were back then).
++++Message 6248. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: minority opinion question From: ricktompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2010 3:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Another example, with background on the AA principles involved, of the Minority Opinion in action at the Area level. From one of the Appendices of Area 20 (Northern Illinois)'s published history book, used with permission.
_____
A number of factors apply to the search for a consensus from the groups of Alcoholics Anonymous, and the decisions eventually approved on any particular issue show the use of sound A.A. principles. Any group conscience is hopefully an informed group conscience, where the presentation of background facts combine with current views toward a course of positive action. While not always announced in emphasis, resulting decisions reflect an A.A. principle stated in the Twelve Concepts for World Service (adopted at the 1962 General Service Conference) as Warranty Four of Concept Twelve: "that all important decisions be reached by discussion, vote, and whenever possible, by substantial unanimity." The idea in our Second Tradition of "a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience" serves as both a motivation for any proposal a group votes on, and also becomes a vehicle that carries the results of voted motions.
vitality of A.A. principles. Our voting and search for an Area 20 consensus is not always completed in one vote, however. A thorough discussion continues before and after voting a specific motion, as Concept Five's "right of appeal" allows for the presentation of the minority opinion. In Alcoholics Anonymous, seen in voting from individual groups to Districts to Assemblies onward to the General Service Conference, the minority opinion is well considered. Our procedure of voting has always provided the opportunity for a reconsideration vote. The final decision on any proposed motion is an authentic informed group conscience where minority views blend into the outcome.
the 1990 Spring Assembly held in Joliet, resulting in an extraordinary outcome when the Assembly considered its minority views. NIA Delegate Phyllis W. discussed the effort of another Area for the General Service Conference to approve, develop, and publish an A.A. pamphlet on "Unity." With the Spring Assembly held about one month before that year's Conference, Phyllis reported that some of the large amounts of her mail discussed the proposal for the new pamphlet. She shared the ideas, the details, and the background of the proposal in the morning session during the Delegate's Report, allowing enough time for a thorough Assembly discussion before voting its consensus in the afternoon session.
favor of the 1990 Conference looking into developing a pamphlet on A.A. Unity, with less than 10% voting a minority view. Then, as NIA Assemblies always proceed, the request was made to hear from the minority "if it wished to address the issue." Four or five NIA trusted servants shared their reservations on developing a "Unity" pamphlet and the ideas are included here to help explain the second vote on the proposal. A past Delegate reported that of A.A. pamphlets in 1990 distribution, the subject of A.A. unity was presented and announced over sixteen times. Whether a "Unity" pamphlet was really needed or would actually be read by the Fellowship appeared as the strong consideration for the Assembly NOT to approve its development. Another spoke on the idea that A.A. Unity, one of the Three Legacies of our Fellowship, could be thought of as a living, existing, and flexible entity. A new pamphlet on the subject might either be incomplete or detract from the real forces of unity at work in Alcoholics Anonymous. Another spoke of A.A.'s Tradition One, where both our common welfare and personal recovery depend upon A.A. unity. By wisely placing the word "unity" in the short form of the First Tradition, the remaining eleven Traditions literally describe the limits and explain the results that the principles of A.A. unity bring to our Fellowship. The motion was called for a second vote, and as reported in the Spring Assembly minutes by the NIA Secretary, "Upon a standing vote it was evidenced that there was a total turnaround of the opinion of the Assembly and the question was denied." The second vote unanimously declined approval for developing a new pamphlet on "Unity." The 1990 General Service Conference also declined to proceed with the pamphlet's development. The NIA Spring Assembly, after hearing the views expressed by its minority vote, fully reconsidered the thoughtful ideas presented and delivered its informed group conscience, a substantial unanimity and a truly remarkable consensus. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6249. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Requirement for time sober for people running meetings? From: allan_gengler . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/17/2010 7:03:00 PM
have six months to chair, but other groups have no such "requirement." I've never seen an official AA stance on this and from what I know about traditions and concepts that probably wouldn't happen since leadership comes from the Group Up to GSO and not the other way around.
some of the early meetings at T. Henry's house weren't even run by alcoholics but my Oxford Groupers. That was probably a good thing, considering the state of the sober few at the time. --Al - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com (Baileygc23 at aol.com) There is a lot of AA literature that encourages AAers to work with others from the start. Particularly the first chapter of the big book said that was it imperative to work with others. On page 159 Bill W says he could leave people with less than three months sober as they were trying to work with others.
of places there was freedom of thought and action. Groups do have the right to be wrong, according to Bill W. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6250. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Chauncey C. from Pontiac, Michigan
From: Arthur S . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/18/2010 9:25:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Good grief - is there absolutely no respect on this web site for AA's Anonymity Traditions? While AAHistoryLovers is not an AA entity, the AA members who submit material should practice at least a token respect for the Traditions.
(cm53 at earthlink.net) Not sure if Social Security #'s should be posted? What does that have to do with recovery from alcoholism?
Michigan
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/19/2010 4:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Mel B. (melb at buckeye-access.com) Glenn, I notice there's been some interest in Chauncey Costello, a real oldtimer who
lived in Pontiac, Michigan. I sent the following comment to jlobdell and suggested he circulate it. Perhaps you might consider circulating it to History Lovers.
I met Chauncey Costello in late 1950 in an AA meeting at the All Saints Episcopal Church in Pontiac, Michigan. With about nine years, he was the oldest in the group in terms of sobriety. I had just moved to Pontiac from my hometown, Norfolk, Nebraska, where I had my last drink on April 15, 1950. I stood in awe of Chauncey, as did others in the Stevens Group (so called because we met in Stevens Hall at the church). He had a small business operating bulldozers, etc., a trade he followed all of his life. In later years, when Guest House was opened for Catholic priests in nearby Lake Orion, he did much of the bulldozing on the grounds of the estate they used. Chauncey stayed active in AA throughout his life. He had found AA in 1941 after
a nudge from a friendly judge who had just heard about the program (and had previously been referring drunks to the Salvation Army!). Chauncey considered himself a blue-collar man and at first felt a bit uncomfortable with the lawyers and other professional men he met at his first AA meeting, in Birmingham, Michigan. But he quickly got into the swim of things and became highly respected for his character and skills. And by the time I moved to Pontiac, there were plenty of blue-collar workers in the AA membership along with the professional people. I spent many years in Jackson, Mich., and Toledo, Ohio, and saw Chauncey only a
few times until early in this century. But I always heard about the great work
he was doing, still in the greater Pontiac area. Then a man from New York wanted to interview Chauncey, so I made the arrangements and we called on him in a Pontiac hospital. Some time later, I saw Chauncey for the last time. Amazingly, it was at an AA meeting in the All Saints Episcopal Church, the place where I had first met him in 1950. He was in a wheelchair, but still mentally alert and interested in the meeting.
loving marriage marred by some difficulties. Their daughter, for example, was murdered by her husband. But they had other children and grandchildren who were close to them in their old age. I hope you will circulate this account to others. Thank you very much. Mel Barger, Toledo, Ohio (melb at accesstoledo.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6252. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How quickly should the twelve steps be taken? From: Ernest Kurtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/19/2010 8:51:00 PM
approach your query. Please remember that I am now retired, all my N- G notes given to Brown University and a few other small archives, so I have to tackle this one from fairly vivid but still aging memory. In the long recording that Bill did to help Robert Thomsen in his research, Bill mentions after his long conversation with Dowling, he ”felt for the first time completely cleansed and freed.“ At the time of my research, I discussed this with several of the then-surviving old-timers, and they agreed that given the time and circumstances -- remember, the 12 Steps had not yet been formulated and all they had to go on was Oxford Group practice -- this ”must have been Bill's first 'Fifth Step.'“ ”That is one of the things you should get from a real Fifth Step.“
correspondence about the Steps and Father Dowling, I came to agree with the historical certainty of that understanding.
> > (steven.calderbank at verizon.net) > > Page 98 in Not God claims that Bill finally > took his fifth when he met Father Dowling. > That was several years after his meeting with > Ebby. I am sure Dr. Kurtz can elaborate on > that more if he cares. Unless I am reading > this wrong.
Jung, Kant, and William James From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/19/2010 6:39:00 PM
did
not gain salvation by getting down on your knees and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior (there is nothing in the first 164 pages of the Big Book about that) -- you gained salvation via visions of White Light, experiences of the Transcendentalist Over-Soul in the wonders of the starry heavens overhead, and Swedenborgian conversations with angels who were simply the spirits of human beings who had once lived upon this earth." Bill wrote in The AA Way of Life (As Bill Sees It) No. 114: "NO PERSONAL POWER" "At first, the remedy for my personal difficulties seemed so obvious that I could not imagine any alcoholic turning the proposition down were it properly presented to him. Believing so firmly that Christ can do anything, I had the unconscious conceit to suppose that He would do everything through me -- right
then and in the manner I chose. After six long months, I had to admit that not a
soul had surely laid hold of the Master -- not excepting myself. "This brought me to the good healthy realization that there were plenty of situations left in the world over which I had no personal power -- that if I was so ready to admit that to be the case with alcohol, so I must make the same admission with respect to much else. I would have to be still and know that He,
not I, was God." LETTER, 1940 - God Bless IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6254. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Requirement for time sober for people running meetings? From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/19/2010 6:56:00 PM
." I've never seen an official AA stance on this and from what I > know about traditions and concepts that probably wouldn't happen since > leadership comes from the Group Up to GSO and not the other way around. The pamphlet "The AA Group" contains all sorts of recommendations for sober time for various positions as a trusted servant. Obviously these are based on experienmce but as always each group has the right to be wrong.
speaker meetings? From: firituallyspit . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 9:33:00 AM
early meetings were "Speaker" meetings. I am not so sure that is accurate. Does anybody have the low down on these early meeting formats? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6256. . . . . . . . . . . . Henry (Hank) P. From: Chuck Parkhurst . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 6:02:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Members I am looking for a confirmation with source reference, for the date of death for Henry "Hank" Parkhurst. I have seen his death reported as 1/18 and 1/21, each time in the year 1954.
From: R. Peter Nixon, MBA . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 7:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Bob Evans (AA #11) came to the fellowship in February 1937. Does anyone know his birthdate, birthplace, sobriety date, place and date of death?
++++Message 6258. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Henry (Hank) P. From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 2:52:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi Chuck, The information you require can by found in the New Jersey Herald, January 27, 1954. Although I do not have a copy I believe it lists the date as January 18th. Regards --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Parkhurst" wrote:
> > Members > > I am looking for a confirmation with source > reference, for the date of death for Henry > "Hank" Parkhurst. I have seen his death > reported as 1/18 and 1/21, each time in the > year 1954. > > Many Thanks > > In Service with Gratitude, > > Chuck Parkhurst > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6259. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Henry (Hank) P. From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 8:25:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII During his all too short period of sobriety. He died after a long illness at Glenwood Sanitarium in Trenton, New Jersey, on January 18, 1954, at the age of fifty-seven. Lois Wilson ascribed his death to drinking. Funeral services were held Thursday, January 22 at Blackwell Memorial Home. Rev. A. Kenneth Magner of the First Presbyterian Church performed the service. At the time of his death he and his wife, Kathleen Nixon Parkhurst (whom he had remarried after two failed marriages) were living at Washington-Crossing Road, Pennington, New Jersey.
in Madeira Beach, Florida. A second son Robert S. Parkhurst, was living in Pennington.
information concerning Hank's death and burial. Above written by Nancy O. - - - - In a message dated 1/20/2010 12:29:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ineedpage63@cox.net writes: I am looking for a confirmation with source reference, for the date of death for Henry "Hank" Parkhurst. I have seen his death reported as 1/18 and 1/21, each time in the year 1954.
steps be taken? From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 8:16:00 AM
period. Now I do not know when one is to take the fifth step, or if one should take the fifth step, that is up to the individual. But below is some of Bill W's address to the Catholic Clergy Council. He places the date as 1938 as when the steps were written. Bill W.'s talk to the Catholic Clergy Council: [Bill W. is saying here that WE ALCOHOLICS BROKE WITH THE OXFORD GROUP BECAUSE
WE DID NOT WANT TO BECOME A PROTESTANT EVANGELICAL SECT which was trying to "save" the whole world by preaching the evangelical gospel message that the atoning blood of the divine God-man Christ which he shed on the cross was the
ONLY thing that would save our souls or give us eternal life. G.C.] Before leaving the subject of the Oxford Groups, perhaps I should specifically outline why we felt it necessary to part company with them. To begin with, the
climate of their undertaking was not well suited to us alcoholics. They were aggressively evangelical, they sought to re-vitalize the Christian message in such a way as to "change the world." Most of us alcoholics had been subjected to pressure of evangelism and we had
never liked it. The object of saving the world -- when it was still much in doubt if we could save ourselves -- seemed better left to other people. [Bill W. is saying here that WE HAD TO BREAK WITH THE OXFORD GROUP'S ATTEMPT TO MAKE US CARRY OUT OUR MORAL INVENTORY SO QUICKLY -- you could not analyze and remake an alcoholic's moral character in just a few days or a few weeks -- but it took us early AA people a while to realize this. G.C.] By reason of some of its terminology and by the exertion of huge pressure, the
Oxford Group set a moral stride that was too fast, particularly for our newer
alcoholics. They constantly talked of Absolute Purity, Absolute Unselfishness, Absolute Honesty, and Absolute Love. While sound theology must always have its
absolute values, the Oxford Groups created the feeling that one should arrive
at these destinations in short order, maybe by next Thursday! Perhaps they didn't mean to create such an impression but that was the effect.
to be shy. They also believe that by "converting" prominent people to their beliefs, they would hasten the salvation of the many who were less prominent. This attitude could scarcely appeal to the average drunk since he was anything
but distinguished. The Oxford Group also had attitudes and practices which added up to a highly coercive authority. This was exercised by "team" of older members. They would gather in meditation and receive specific guidance for the life conduct of newcomers. This guidance could cover all possible situations from the most trivial to the most serious. If the directions so obtained were not followed the enforcement machinery began
to operate. It consisted of a sort of coldness and aloofness which made recalcitrants feel they weren't wanted. At one time, for example, a team got guidance for me to the effect that I was
no longer to work with alcoholics. This I couldn't accept. Another example: When I first contacted the Oxford Groups, Catholics were permitted to attend their meetings because they were strictly non-denominational.
GROUP, the next thing you know, AA MEMBERS WILL START BEING REQUIRED TO GIVE MONEY TO THAT RELIGIOUS SECT, and leave the religious group that they were brought up in. G.C.] But after a time the Catholic Church forbade its members to attend and the reason for this seemed a good one. Through the Oxford Group teams Catholic Church members were actually receiving very specific guidance for their lives;
they were often infused with the idea that their own Church had become rather
horse-and-buggy, and needed to be changed. Guidance was frequently given that
contributions should be made to the Oxford Groups. In a way this amounted to putting Catholics under a separate ecclesiastical jurisdiction. At this time there were few Catholics in our own alcoholic groups. Obviously we could not approach any more Catholics under Oxford Group auspices. Therefore this was another and the basic reason for the withdrawal of our alcoholic crowd
from the Oxford Groups notwithstanding our great indebtedness to them. Writing Down The Twelve Steps Perhaps you would be interested in a further account of the writing down of the
Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. In the spring of 1938 we had commenced to prepare a book showing the methods of our then nameless fellowship. We thought there should be a text for this which could be supported by stories, or case histories, written by some of our recovered people.
content
of these chapters had been the subject of endless discussion and even hot argument. The preliminary chapters consisted of my own story, a rationalization of AA for
the benefit of the agnostic, plus descriptions of the alcoholic illness. Even
over this much material the haggling had been so great that I had begun to feel
much more like an umpire than an author. Arrived then at what is now Chapter Five, it was realized that a specific program for recovery had to be laid down as a basis for any further progress. By then I felt pretty frazzled and discouraged. One night, in a bad mood I must confess, I lay in bed at home considering our
next move. After a time, the idea hit me that we might take our "word of mouth" program, the one I have already described, and amplify it into several more steps. This would make our program perfectly explicit. The necessary ground could be covered so thoroughly that no rationalizing alcoholic could misunderstand or wiggle away by that familiar process. We might also be able to hit readers at a distance, people to whom we could offer no personal help at the moment. Therefore a more thorough job of codification had to be done. With only this in mind I began to sketch the new steps on a yellow pad. To my astonishment they seemed to come very easily, and with incredible rapidity. Perhaps the writing required no more than twenty or thirty minutes. Seemingly I had to think little at all. It was only when I came to the end of the writing
that I re-read and counted them. Curiously enough, they numbered twelve and required almost no editing. They looked surprisingly good -- at least to me. Of course I felt vastly encouraged.
presentation. In our word-of-mouth program, we had reversed mention of God to the very end. For some reason, unknown to me, I had transposed this to almost the very beginning. In my original draft of the Twelve Steps, God was mentioned several times and
only as God. It never occurred to me to qualify this to "God as we understand Him" as we did later on. Otherwise the Twelve Steps stand today almost exactly
as they were first written. When these Steps were shown to my friends, their reactions were quite mixed indeed. Some argued that six steps had worked fine, so why twelve? From our agnostic contingent there were loud cries of too much God.
getting on one's knees while in prayer. I heavily resisted these objections for months. But finally did take out my statement about a suitable prayerful posture and I finally went along with that now tremendously important expression, "God as we understand Him" -- this expression having been coined, I think, by one of our former atheist members. This was indeed a ten-strike. That one has since enabled thousands to join AA who would have otherwise gone away. It enabled people of fine religious training and those of none at all to associate freely and to work together. It made one's religion the business of the A.A. member himself and not that of his society.
PRIEST, WHO THEREFORE INTERPRETED IT IN TERMS OF THE IGNATIAN EXERCISES -- what
this means is, that Bill W. had by this point totally grown away from the Oxford
Group's idea that we had to do our confession, restitution, and so on -- AND start practicing moral virtues with almost absolute perfection -- within a few days or weeks! Bill W. was now understanding moral growth in the way that Father Ed Dowling and the Ignatian exercises did, as a life-long process in which it took years to ferret out all of the moral failings hidden down in our characters. Jesuit priests regularly go off on retreats, once a year sometimes, to go through the Ignatian exercises once again. G.C.]
that
members of the Jesuit Order have repeatedly drawn attention to the similarity between them and the Ignatian Exercises, is a matter for our great wonder and
gratitude indeed. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6261. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Early meeting format: were they all speaker meetings? From: stevec012000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 7:15:00 PM
sober in June 1935. AA in Akron grew slowly but steadily during the months that followed.]
ceeded with seven more. Seeing much of each other, scarce an evening passed that someone's home did not shelter a little gathering of men and women, happy in their release, and constantly thinking how they might present their discovery to some newcomer. In addi- tion to these casual get-togethers, it became customary to set apart one night a week for a meeting to be at- tended by anyone or everyone interested in a spiritual way of life. Aside from fellowship and sociability, the prime object was to provide a time and place where new people might bring their problems." "Outsiders became interested. One man and his wife placed their large home at the disposal of this strangely assorted crowd. This couple has since be- come so fascinated that they have dedicated their home to the word. Many a distracted wife has visited this house to find loving and understanding compan- ionship among women who knew her problem, to hear from the lips of their husbands what had hap- pened to them, to be advised how her own wayward mate might be hospitalized and approached when next he stumbled."
all speaker meetings? From: bent_christensen5 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/20/2010 1:37:00 PM
and you'll be able to find one good answer among many in message #5300.
http://hindsfoot.org/akrn226.doc ] shared ... the following recollection of what AA was like when he first joined: Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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