Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
Yüklə 25,47 Mb.
|
> > SEE ALSO Message 6257 "Bob E. (AA #11)" > > AND ALSO Message 6265 "Re: Bob E. (AA #11)" >
King School meetings From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/24/2010 6:00:00 AM
experience of early Akron (Dr Bob) AA from this man who had 46 years when the tape was recorded in 1988.
disease was a family disease and never closed at any set time. There was no prayer at the end of the meeting with members holding hands and saying a prayer,rather they all went into silent prayer and meditation individually.
as it was originally done. His explanation of the history of AA is as he remembers it.
Phila, PA - - - - In a message dated 1/23/2010 elg3_79@yahoo.com writes:
who attended meetings with Dr. Bob at King School, sharing about this experience many years later from the podium -- it is available for free at:
Employers From: Harriet Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2010 10:25:00 AM
information on the chapter "To Employers." I would like to know, was it a procedure to take the Big Book into the work place, and ask employers to read the book (or that particular chapter)? Did they recommend that employers use the Big Book, or how was it known about? I couldnt find anything specific on the group blogs.
Harriet - - - - From the moderator: Harriet is asking if we have any stories of AA people taking copies of the Big Book to employers during the early days, to ask if they had any alcoholic employees they could work with, or whatever. It seems like I may have heard of that, but I can't remember where.
Mann recommended approaching businesses where it was known that they had problems with alcoholism among their employees? It seems to me that when the EAP movement started later on (Employee Assistance Progam), that they found that it was easier to get employees actually to come in, if they just put it (at the public level) in terms of general assistance with any kind of problem. But in fact they found that in the majority of the cases, alcohol and/or drugs were the cause of all the other problems (marital, financial, absenteeism, etc.). I know we have members of the AAHistoryLovers who have led EAP's, who could tell us more about that.
belladonna induced? From: bbthumpthump . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2010 9:17:00 AM
Light Spiritual Experience while under the effects of Charles Towns' Belladonna Cure, which evokes hallucinations in the patient. What can you tell me about this? - - - - From the moderator: Belladonna was part of the Towns' treatment, used to help keep the patient from going into major DT's. If Bill W. was given belladonna on this, his fourth visit to Towns (and in fact, we don't really know the answer to this for sure, based on my reading), would that much of the belladonna still have been in his system at the time of his vision of light?
light experience as a hallucination? The descriptions of belladonna intoxication seem to be saying that it was like the hallucinations accompanying the DT's, only a little milder, and what you experience when you're having DT's is most definitely NOT Bill's report of a positive and fulfilling experience of relief and freedom.
what belladonna does to you don't sound anything remotely like Bill W.'s white light experience: Belladonna produces dilated pupils, sensitivity to light, blurred vision, tachycardia, loss of balance, staggering, headache, rash, flushing, dry mouth and throat, slurred speech, urinary retention, constipation, confusion, hallucinations, delirium, and convulsions. The plant's deadly symptoms are caused by atropine's disruption of the parasympathetic nervous system's ability to regulate non-volitional/subconscious activities such as sweating, breathing, and heart rate. Its anticholinergic properties will cause in humans the disruption of cognitive capacities like memory and learning.
mountain top experience to me! But have any of our members ever had experience with taking belladonna, perhaps in their misspent youths? What actually happens when you take the stuff? Also be sure and see Bill Lash's excellent and very thorough study of all this in Message #1493 http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/1493
in the treatment, etc., etc. Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6278. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Clyde B. and Freeman Carpenter From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2010 2:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Interesting ---- is Clyde B. ("Freeman Carpenter") still alive? (Clyde has email and website selling that book and others: www.freemancarpenter.com ) LD Pierce aabibliography.com - - - - "J. Lobdell" > > My recollection is that Chauncey C. was the longest sober member at Toronto 2005 and died in 2006. Did he get sober at Dr. Bob's [house] in Akron in 1941? He was succeeded as oldest by Easy E. down in Alabama, who got sober, I think, in Nov 1942, and died in 2008? I don't know of any living members who got sober before the end of WW2 (and stayed sober). There is in Bristol, Pennsylvania, Clyde B. who got sober in Boston June 20 1946
and wrote a book a dozen years ago -- SIXTY YEARS A DRUNK FIFTY YEARS SOBER (under the pen-name Freeman Carpenter). He's the longest sober I've met. >
From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 1/25/2010 2:45:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII As someone had pointed out previously there is a discrepancy in Bob's sober date
detailed below in this excerpt from the manuscript the Golden Road of Devotion, Chapter Four "And We Began To Count Noses"
been dry sixteen months, dating his entry as October of 1936. Bob was a wealthy banker and is mentioned extensively in DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers (Note 64) Bob seems to vividly recall his entry in the fellowship, according to his taped or transcribed interview that the author of DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers refers to, as February of 1937 (Note 65) The difference between the two accounts, Evans' and Dr. Bob's, as to when Bob Evans arrived on the scene is frustrating and certainly leaves us with yet another unanswered question."
into AA
in February of 1937(Note 66) Unfortunately, this statement is not given a reference source (Note 67), although later it is referenced to the 1954 recording or transcript frequently cited and appears to be the recollections of Bob Evans himself. (Note 68) For now we will defer to DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers and place Bob Evans on our list in 1937." "It is our position, that The Amos Roster as now introduced, is the most accurate source of information now available on the early Akron members. Being written by Dr. Bob in or before February of 1938, should rightly be considered more authoritative then sources previously used including the memory of various individuals who were sources for, or the authors of, Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers and Pass It On." "It is also interesting to note that The Amos Roster, as we have named it, or Dr. Bob's list is not referenced in DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers, leading this writer to believe that the document (The Amos Roster) was not known or made available to its author. (Note 69)"
123,142,146,152,156-157,176,217,221-223. Note 65 DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers; p. 353, Sources, see 116-119 citing C, T, 1954 (B). See p.101, Feb 37 Sobriety Date Note 66 DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers; p. 101 Note 67 DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers; p. 352, Sources, see 101 lines 10-11 are
not referenced or cited. Note 68 DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers; p. 353, Sources, see 116-119 citing C, T, 1954 (B). Note 69 DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers; pages 128-135. The "Amos Roster" refers to Dr Bob's hand written list of members provided to Frank Amos in February of 1938. (See Below) The Amos Report Many of us are familiar with the events following the "counting of noses" which
took place in Akron during the second week of October 1937. (Note 1) Bill was
introduced to Willard Richardson, one of John D. Rockefeller's closest associates, by his brother-in-law Dr. Leonard Strong. After several meetings with Rockefeller's advisors, Frank Amos made a visit to Akron in mid February of 1938 to get a first hand look at Dr. Bob and the group of recovered drunks. His
account of that visit, which was titled "THE NOTES ON AKRON, OHIO SURVEY by FRANK AMOS" is well documented in DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers (Note 2) and to a lesser extent in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age (Note 3) and Pass It On (Note 4) The account of Amos's Akron visit given in DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers, as well as the other publications, omits one very important detail, that a list of the early Akron members was attached to The Amos Report. The likely reason for this key omission is because the list was not attached or included with The Amos Report filed in the GSO archives. A copy of this list, which was written by Dr. Bob on his office stationary, has recently been provided to the Archivist at GSO. This list of the pioneering Akron members, which we have dubbed "The Amos Roster", is described below in an excerpt from a copy of The Amos Report (Note 5) It may prove to be the first written list of members ever produced by one of our co-founders. "Alcoholic Group There are now some fifty men, and, I believe, two women former alcoholics, all considered practically incurable by physicians, who have been reformed and so far have remained teetotalers. A list of some of them is attached giving their business, the length in months they have been "dry", the period in years they were drinking, and their present age." Notes: 1. Chapter IV, The Golden Road of Devotion 2. DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers, pages 128-134 3. Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, pages 148-150 4. Pass It On, pages 181-187 5. 2/23/1938 (B)
Q Alcoholic was AA # "xyz" After Bill Dotson there are precious few definitive dates or information on who
got sober and when. The Amos Roster is an excellent source of info and must be considered "authoritative" but also has some nagging inconsistencies. We know they were counting members in New York and Akron seperately. For some, they factored in a slip into their sober time, for others they reset the clock. Still
others appear to have been deleted after they relapsed and din't come back (i.e
Phil Smith, Walter Bray, Harold Grisinger)The research I have done on the First
Forty which I believe has better sources and citations then previous works posted on the internet shows that Bob Evans was the 23rd person to join the fellowship. These people below all appear to have "joined the fellowship" (meaning were trying to get or stay sober in the Oxford Group or with the help of Dr. Bob) before him. 1 Bill Wilson Dec 34 NY 2 Bob Smith May 35 Akron 3 Bill Dotson June 35 Akron 4 Ernie Galbraith July 35 Akron 5 Henry Parkhurst Sept 35 NJ 6 Walter Bray Sept 35 Akron 7 Phil Smith Oct 35 Akron 8 John Mayo Nov 35 MD 9 Silas Bent Nov 35 CT 10 Harold Grisinger Jan 36 Akron 11 Paul Stanley Jan 36 Akron 12 Tom Lucas Feb 36 Akron 13 Myron Williams Apr 36 NY 14 Joseph Doppler Apr 36 Cleveland 15 Robert Oviatt June 36 Cleveland 16 Harry Latta July 36 Akron 17 James Holmes Sept 36 Akron 18 Alfred Smith Jan 37 Akron 19 Alvin Borden Jan 37 Akron 20 Howard Searl Jan 37 Akron 21 William Ruddell Feb 37 NJ 22 Douglas Delanoy Feb 37 NJ 23 Robert Evans Feb 37 Akron
Lovers might wish to compare these names to the Akron 226 List and or 100 list "PIONEERS BY DATE OF SOBRIETY". God Bless --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "mdingle76" > > I like to speak for the "All Addicts Anonymous" people for I work for 24 Communications — the publishing group of AAA — which originally put out 24 Magazine. The article that J. Lobell refers to was written for 24 Magazine in September 1976 (6 months before the book "Dr. Bob and the Good oldtimers" was on the launching pad.) Yes, J. Lobell is right — the interview that we recorded of Bob E. (used in the Sept 1976, 24 Magazine) was later used in the "Dr. Bob" book. (It is believed that we still have the tape recording of this interview and that there was much more said by Bob E. not used in the article — although, I haven't bumped into the tape in our archives yet.) > > The Sept 1976 article said: "Bob E. is the senior living member of Alcoholics Anonymous in length of sobriety. He was the eleventh man to join the fellowship. He still lives today in Akron, Ohio, as he did when he came into the Akron group — the first Alcoholics Anonymous group — back in 1936. Not long ago he shared with us the following recollections of what AA was like in the days when he came in . . . " > > Now, in 1990, 24 Communications tried to publish several 12 step books through Harper (one was called "Bill Wilson and the 12 Steps," another one was "Dr. Bob and the 12 Steps," etc., etc.) Well, the "Dr. Bob and the 12 steps" book had featured the Bob E. article with a few minor changes — on of them being the
death date of Bob E. as 1984. It said: "Bob E., until his death in 1984, was the
senior living member of Alcoholics Anonymous in length of sobriety. He was the
eleventh man to join the fellowship. . ." > > Does anybody else have any ideas or information about this? > > Matt D. > >
> > > > The date of death for Bob E., given by All Addicts Anonymous as 1984, does not agree with any primary source I can find. The passages quoted in their article are clearly from the same recording quoted in DR BOB, a book which was
begun March 1977, very shortly after Bob E. died in Akron (according to the Record of Ohio Deaths 1958-2002) on 9 February 1977 -- at which time he would still have been the longest-sober member of A.A. > > > > But after 1977 and until his own death in March 1984, Clarence S. (DLD Feb 1938) was regarded both by himself and by others as the longest-sober member, which suggests the accuracy of the putative 1977 deathdate for Bob E. > > > > Perhaps some member of HistoryLovers can fill us in on the 1984 death date in the AAA publication. > > > > - - - - > > > > Message 5300 says (as referred to in Message 6262 > > "Re: Early meeting format"): > >
> > "SHORTLY BEFORE HIS DEATH IN 1984, > > Bob E. shared ... the following recollection > > of what AA was like when he first joined" > >
> > IT THEN REFERS US TO THE ALL ADDICTS ANONYMOUS WEB SITE AT: > > Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
|