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what we then called "moral psychology", and we doubted if even that would have any effect. However, he did become "sold" on the ideas contained in this book. He has not had a drink for a great many years. I see him now and then and he is as fine a specimen of manhood as one could wish to meet. I earnestly advise every alcoholic to read this book through, and though perhaps he came to scoff, he may re- main to pray.>>
the AA program of recovery as it existed c. October 1935, which would mean something like the kind of roughly devised six step program which Bill W., Earl Treat, and Ebby described: http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html
"moral psychology" seems to have involved helping people learn how to better apply good moral principles to their lives, and it also seems to have involved helping them learn how to pray and turn to a higher power for help. It was very different from Freudian psychiatry, which had no room for God or morality in most people's sense of that word. And even Jung taught no strongly moral message in the sense in which Bill Wilson and the early AA's understood moral behavior. Dr. Silkworth had the vision of a kind of psychology which was very different from any of the various kinds of psychology and psychiatry which were dominating the western world during the 1930's. But let us remember that the word "psychotherapy" meant (in the original Greek) "psyches therapeia," the "healing of the soul," or in Latin the "cura animarum." How could you truly heal a sick soul, without putting it back on a good moral path, and restoring its relationship with God? Dr. Silkworth was a very wise and insightful man, it strikes me, who was willing to buck the secularizing and atheistic tendencies of his times. Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana, US) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6517. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Why was Fitz''s alcoholic problem so complex? From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2010 10:47:00 PM
surrender and recover. William Ruddell didn't meet Bill or get sober until February of 1937. This is verified in Ruddell's first edition story as well as Lois's diary. God Bless IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6518. . . . . . . . . . . . Historical definition of substantial unanimity From: Lonnie . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2010 11:10:00 PM
in the pamphlet "The AA Group... Where It All Begins" at the bottom of page 26. Our group is struggling with an issue that has split the group at a 50/50 vote,
and the question has been posed as to how we will define "substantial unanimity". Any thoughts / help appreciated! Lonnie V. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6519. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Historical definition of substantial unanimity From: Sober186@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/10/2010 9:31:00 PM
that time as a two thirds vote. The same idea is contained in the pamphlet, "The AA Group ... Where It All Begins" (p. 34-35): If one is in a hurry, skip to the last sentence. "The group conscience is the collective conscience of the group membership and thus represents substantial unanimity on an issue before definitive action is taken. This is achieved by the group members through the sharing of full information, individual points of view, and the practice of AA principles. To be fully informed requires a willingness to listen to minority
opinions with an open mind. "On sensitive issues, the group works slowly -- discouraging formal motions until a clear sense of its collective view emerges. Placing principles before personalities, the membership is wary of dominant opinions. Its voice is heard when a well-informed group arrives at a decision. The result rests on more than a 'yes' or 'no' count -- precisely because it is the spiritual expression of the group conscience. The term 'informed group conscience' implies that pertinent information has been studied and all views have been heard before the group votes." Within The e-AA Group, "substantial unanimity" means a 2/3 majority whenever possible. Jim L Central Ohio IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6520. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Judge sentences man to get AA sponsor
From: John Moore . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2010 6:13:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From John Moore, Jim in Central Ohio, Rotax Steve, and Elisabeth - - - - From: John Moore (contact.johnmoore at gmail.com) Yes, courts have been sending drunks, and others, to AA for as long as I have been sober. Getting a sponsor is a requirement of many facilities and it is no surprise that the courts do to sometimes.
because you cannot force someone to come to AA, or to get a sponsor...it is supposed to be voluntary. That view turned out to be short sighted because alkies were coming and getting sober and doing well in spite of all predictions to the contrary.
there was a stack of court papers and resident papers to be signed each week. Not unusual to sign 20 or 30 of them at a meeting. Some told me that they had to find a sponsor to satisfy the terms of their release or their residency in treatment. It is not easy because many AAs felt they were being used by the system, and one man told me he refuses to sponsor anyone who is in treatment, detox or under court orders.
and had total losers become fine men in spite of how they arrived. If a man is willing, I try to help if I possibly can.
South Burlington, Vermont - - - - From: Sober186@aol.com (Sober186 at aol.com) Not exactly the same sentence, but one local judge says he never sentences a person to attend AA. He gives them an option of either going to jail for x number of days or attending a few AA meetings a week for the same length of time. He says they seem to always like the AA option. He also says he makes it clear if he catches them skipping the AA meetings, they will serve the full jail time. Very few skip the meetings. We also had a Juvenile court judge in a small town sentencing youngsters to attend AA meetings. Sometimes they were a little disruptive. A few members of AA made an appointment with the judge and explained the concept of Open and Closed meetings. He then only sentenced them to Open AA meetings. AA membership does not require having a sponsor, but that makes no difference. A judge can do anything the judge wishes until he gets over ruled by a higher court. (Of course he may not get re elected) Jim in Central Ohio - - - - From: "Rotax Steve" (gallery5 at mindspring.com) I see it at every meeting I go to. Recently my home group has been flooded with
court cards. I have often wondered how and when the courts started sending people to AA? I try to be involved more with CPCPI and it bugs me when people are "sentenced to AA". I try to tell judges that AA is not punishment and that those who are
sent there by the courts consider it so. I would say that perhaps 1 in 15 do stay after there court card requirements are
finished (but usually not for very long) so that is good but what's not good are
the other 14 who can be disruptive and use the group for therapy which waters
down the whole meeting. Long standing members try to steer topics toward the program for discussion but it's difficult. ~ Rotax Steve - - - - From: "Elisabeth" (elisabeth98043 at yahoo.com) No! It's amazing that he didn't order him to do a 5th step ... excuse the sarcasm ... IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6521. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Judge sentences man to get AA sponsor
From: Rick Benchoff . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2010 5:07:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Rick Benchoff, LD Pierce, and Jim S. - - - - From: Rick Benchoff (rxichard2nd at yahoo.com) Greetings to my fellow AA History Lovers: A.A. has a long history of cooperation with the professional community, especially local judiciary. In meetings I often hear this modification to our Third Tradition that often "the desire to stop drinking may belong to the judge!" It is well known that various U.S. courts have ruled that people cannot be ordered to attend A.A. meetings http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/09/07/0615474.pdf but I can readily attest that in Maryland district and circuit judges as well as the state Motor Vehicle Administration still routinely order offenders to attend A.A. meetings. Back in the 1980's the Maryland court systems in conjunction with the Division
of Parole and Probation developed the Drinking Driver Monitor Program (DDMP).
Prior to start of the DDMP courts were sending offenders to mandatory AA meetings, but nothing on the scale that was seen after the start of the DDMP. Within a few years the number of court-ordered DWI offenders was enormous. To make a long story short, the service structure of our area (Area 29) decided (after much debate, see this link: http://www.intoaction.org/files/general12step/courtslips.pdf to issue a "Call for Unity" and respectfully ask that groups in Maryland no longer sign DDMP attendance slips. Most groups voluntarily agreed to stop signing slips. The problems associated with the influx of "slip signees" decreased dramatically. Today judges and the MVA continue to send DWI offenders to AA, but usually the
offenders sent are repeat offenders (and usually have been diagnosed by a treatment professional as having an alcohol use disorder), rather than first-time offenders. Most DDMP monitors no longer require that an attendance slip be signed by an AA member, but that the attendee must record information about the meeting, such as the date, time, location and name of the meeting, meeting topic, name of the meeting leader or secretary, and the name of the last person to speak. This eliminates the need to have a slip signed (and makes it difficult for the attendee to falsify). I first came into AA in 1987 in the midst of the court signing debate carrying a court slip. I encountered much hostility at the time, but eventually the judge's desire for me to attend A.A. meetings developed into my own. There's another saying that I often hear in meetings, "I first came to meetings because
I had to, then I came because I wanted to, finally I came because it's Tuesday
night and it's 8 o'clock." The General Service Office has a number of pdf's available online about this very topic: http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-177_en.pdf http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/mg-05_coopwithcourt.pdf In this posting I haven't mentioned the controversy of treatment centers sending
people that self-identify as drug addicts. I'll skip that hot topic entirely. With warm regards, Rick B. Hagerstown, Maryland - - - - From: "diazeztone" (eztone at hotmail.com) My main point in posting this was that I have always seen people sentence to AA.
I was one of them. My AA history website is dedicated to the Judge who sentenced me!!
of the court requiring a documented must get "An AA Sponsor" I give my own opinion on this in a page on the aabibliography web site: http://www.aabibliography.com/aa_paper_signers_probation_parole_alcoholics_a nony\
LD Pierce www.aabibliography.com - - - - From: "planternva2000" (planternva2000 at yahoo.com) So? For years the local treatment facilities have been requiring inmates to get a 'temporary' sponsor and home group. Some get sober, some don't. I think one of our traditions says something about it not being AA's business
what outside enterprises do. Jim S. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6522. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Judge sentences man to get AA sponsor
From: Craig Keith . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2010 6:53:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII As I recall, it was the latter part of 1934 when a judge in effect sentenced one Ebby T. to attend Oxford group meetings.
about.
++++Message 6523. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Historical definition of substantial unanimity From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/11/2010 4:52:00 PM
(cometkazie1 at cox.net) In the current pamphlet, the material quoted below (less the last sentence which does not have quotation marks) is on pp. 26-27. That "'substantial unanimity' means a 2/3 majority whenever possible" is not attributed.
>that time as a two thirds vote. The same idea is contained in the >pamphlet, "The AA Group ... Where It All Begins" (p. 34-35): If >one is in a >hurry, skip to the last sentence. > >"The group conscience is the collective conscience of the group membership >and thus represents substantial unanimity on an issue before definitive >action is taken. This is achieved by the group members through the >sharing of >full information, individual points of view, and the practice of AA >principles. To be fully informed requires a willingness to listen >to minority >opinions with an open mind. > >"On sensitive issues, the group works slowly -- discouraging formal motions > until a clear sense of its collective view emerges. Placing principles >before personalities, the membership is wary of dominant opinions. Its voice >is heard when a well-informed group arrives at a decision. The result rests >on more than a 'yes' or 'no' count -- precisely because it is the spiritual >expression of the group conscience. The term 'informed group conscience' >implies that pertinent information has been studied and all views have been >heard before the group votes." > >Within The e-AA Group, "substantial unanimity" means a 2/3 majority >whenever possible. - - - - From: "kevinr1211" (analystkmr at hotmail.com) In our basic text, chapter 2, a statement is made that defines AA's unanimity, its the famous line beginning with "We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree..."
our
basic tenets of our basic purpose of staying sober,several principles outside
unanimity can be used, especially when there is a stated divide, as you describe. I question the very premise of your question: should you be even using the "substantial unanimity" principle when the opposite seems to be the case? Not everything in life is resolved. -k. In the original question, "Lonnie" < unanimity.">>
From: intuited . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2010 2:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All, I am particularly curious about the "Pause Prayer" (Big Book pp. 87–88): "As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day "Thy will be done." We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient. We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves."
somewhat different than the emphasis on anticipating the day (future) or reviewing the day (past). I would love to know what the history of this emphasis was and are there any particular stories about this present moment focus?
From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2010 5:41:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII We had our monthly Tradition meeting today. I thought I had noted who the "awfully tough Irishman" mentioned in the chapter on the 5th Tradition, but I hadn't. I searched A.A.H.L.'s archive and the question is asked but not answered. Who was he? Tommy H in Baton Rouge - - - - FROM THE CHAPTER IN THE 12+12 ON THE FIFTH TRADITION: [From the moderator: and please note that the main point in this section is that the "primary purpose" which AA must uphold with a total "singleness of purpose" is TO TALK ABOUT RECOVERING FROM ALCOHOLISM, NOT to talk to people about RELIGION.
start preaching to Roman Catholics that they must have a revivalist style born again experience where they take Jesus as their personal savior, and vice versa, Roman Catholics are NOT to start preaching to Protestants that they have to follow Roman Catholic dogmas about the Trinity and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and BOTH groups are NOT to start preaching Christianity at all to Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, etc. Read what follows, and you will see that this is so.] - - - - "Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."
should take out some insurance against a slip. But first I'd have to find a drunk to work on. "So I hopped the subway to Towns Hospital, where I asked Dr. Silkworth if he had a prospect. `Nothing too promising,' the little doc said. `There's just one chap on the third floor who might be a possibility. But he's an awfully tough Irishman. I never saw a man so obstinate. He shouts that if his partner
would treat him better, and his wife would leave him alone, he'd soon solve his
alcohol problem. He's had a bad case of D.T.'s, he's pretty foggy, and he's very suspicious of everybody. Doesn't sound too good, does it? But working with him may do something for you, so why don't you have a go at it?' "I was soon sitting beside a big hulk of a man. Decidedly unfriendly, he stared at me out of eyes which were slits in his red and swollen face. I had to agree with the doctor - he certainly didn't look god. But I told him my own story. I explained what a wonderful Fellowship we had, how well we understood each other. I bore down hard on the hopelessness of the drunk's dilemma. I insisted that few drunks could ever get well on their own steam, but that in our groups we could do together what we could not do separately. He interrupted to scoff at this and asserted he'd fix his wife, his partner, and
his alcoholism by himself. Sarcastically he asked, `How much does your scheme
cost?' "I was thankful I could tell him, `Nothing at all.' "His next question: `What are you getting out of it?' "Of course, my answer was `My own sobriety and a mighty happy life.' "Still dubious, he demanded, `Do you really mean the only reason you are here
is to try and help me and to help yourself?' "`Yes,' I said. `That's absolutely all there is to it. There's no angle.' "Then, hesitantly, I ventured to talk about the spiritual side of our program.
What a freeze that drunk gave me! I'd no sooner got the word `spiritual' out of my mouth than he pounced. `Oh!' he said. `Now I get it! You're proselytizing for some damn religious sect or other. Where do you get that "no
angle" stuff? I belong to a great church that means everything to me. You've got a nerve to come in here talking religion!" "Thank heaven I came up with the right answer for that one. It was based foursquare on the single purpose of A.A. `You have faith,' I said. `Perhaps far deeper faith than mine. No doubt you're better taught in religious matters
than I. So I can't tell you anything about religion. I don't even want to try. I'll bet, too, that you could give me a letter-perfect definition of humility. But from what you've told me about yourself and your problems and how you propose to lock them, I think I know what's wrong.' "`Okay,' he said. `Give me the business.' "`Well,' I said, `I think you're just a conceited Irishman who thinks he can run the whole show.' "This really rocked him. But as he calmed down, he began to listen while I tried to show him that humility was the main key to sobriety. Finally, he saw
that I wasn't attempting to change his religious views, that I wanted him to find the grace in his own religion that would aid his recovery. From there on we got along fine. "Now," concludes the oldtimer, "suppose I'd been obliged to talk to this man on religious grounds? Suppose my answer had to be that A.A. needed a lot of money; that A.A. went in for education, hospital, and rehabilitation? Suppose
I'd suggested that I'd take a hand in his domestic and business affairs? Where
would we have wound up? No place, of course." Years later, this tough Irish customer liked to say, "my sponsor sold me one idea, and that was sobriety. At the time, I couldn't have bought anything else."
++++Message 6526. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The Irishman in the chapter on Tradition Five in the 12 and 12 From: Dov . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/13/2010 4:12:00 PM
fresh
out of Greystone asylum which does not fit the 12&12 Tradition Five description of the Irishman in Towns Hospital. (Note that Fr Dowling is quoted as saying that Morgan R was the only Roman Catholic in New York not the only Roman Catholic in AA).
Tom" is described (in AA Comes of Age) as the brusque Irish janitor of the AA clubhouse who announced Father Ed as 'some bum from St. Louis'. That would seem at first sight to match the tough Irishman description in the 12 and 12. However he was brought into AA by Bill & Lois from Rockland State asylum, which would rule him out too. However I do not know of any need to believe that the incident took place in early AA because according to an article by Leonard Blumberg, (Professor of Sociology, Temple University, Philadelphia Vol. 38. No. 11, 1977, "The Ideology
of a Therapeutic Social Movement: Alcoholics Anonymous") Dr. Silkworth continued to work at Towns until his death in 1951 (http://www.silkworth.net/silkworth/silkworth_bio.html). By 1951 there may well have been more than one tough Irishman in AA which could
make it very difficult to identify the individual mentioned in Tradition Five.
> > If the story goes back to the very early AA > period, Morgan Ryan, who was the only Roman > Catholic AA member at the time the Big Book > was published, had an obviously Irish last > name.
> > - - - - > > From: kodom2545 > > Do we know who the Irishman is in the chapter > on Tradition Five in the Twelve Steps and > Twelve Traditions, pp. 151-154? > > It was a man in Towns Hospital whom Dr. > Silkworth indicated as someone who might be > a possible candidate for the A.A. program. > > God Bless, > > Kyle
> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6527. . . . . . . . . . . . Sylvia K''s Doctor From: mfmargetis . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/12/2010 9:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hi All, I searched but could not seem to find the answer to this question, forgive me if I didn't look hard enough. In Sylvia K's story "The Keys To The Kingdom" do we know who the Doctor in Evanston is?
stories in the Big Book see: http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html The following account is given there: According to member list index cards kept by the Chicago group, Sylvia's date of
sobriety was September 13, 1939. Because of slips by Marty Mann ("Women Suffer
Too,") Sylvia may have been the first woman to achieve long term sobriety ....
sorts of things to control her drinking: the beer diet, the wine diet, timing, measuring, and spacing of drinks. Nothing worked. The next three years saw her in sanitariums, once in a ten-day coma from which
she very nearly died. She wanted to die, but had lost the courage to try. For about one year prior to this time there was one doctor who did not give up on her. He tried everything he could think of, including having her go to mass every morning at six a.m., and performing the most menial labor for his charity patients. This doctor apparently had the intuitive knowledge that spirituality and helping others might be the answer. In the 1939 this doctor heard of the book Alcoholics Anonymous and wrote to New
York for a copy. After reading it he tucked it under his arm and called on Sylvia. That visit marked the turning point of her life. Then he told her of the handful of people in Akron and New York who seemed to have worked out a technique for arresting their alcoholism. He asked her to read the book and to talk with a man who experiencing success by using this plan. This was Earl Treat ("He Sold Himself Short"), the "Mr. T." to whom she refers
on page 309. Earl suggested she visit Akron .... Sylvia stayed two weeks with the Snyders (Clarence Snyder, "The Home Brewmeister) in Cleveland. She met Dr. Bob, who brought other A.A. men to meet her ....
with
Earl Treat, and her personal secretary, Grace Cultice, became the first secretary at the Intergroup office in Chicago, the first in the country. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6528. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The AA version of moral psychology From: corafinch . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/17/2010 9:51:00 AM
Silkworth was referring to some type of therapeutic modality. By "moral psychology," did he actually mean a type of clinical or counseling psychology in which the concept of morals was prominent, or did he mean something outside of the therapeutic realm? In the 19th century, "moral psychology" was a branch of ethics. Ethics had originally been strictly theological, then philosophical. Then a more naturalistic approach evolved, including attention to human decision-making, emotion, motivation and character development. I believe this was the sense in which Silkworth used the term. Yes, he was writing in the 20th century and by that time things had changed somewhat, due to the influence of William James and William MacDougal. But even at the time he was writing, no branch of clinical or medical psychology, as far as I can tell, was using the term "moral psychology" to describe itself. Silkworth was probably going back to the traditional use of the phrase as a psychologically-informed approach to conduct. Silkworth may have been thinking of the Emmanuel Movement or its spin-offs, of the social-psychology approach then used by Dr. Riggs in Stockbridge, or of the various work-cure places where the wealthy could go to chop wood and do other menial labor. Or maybe he was thinking of the Keeley-cure alumni associations where people who dried out at Keeley clinics got together to strengthen one another's resolve. There were also the religiously-based missions such as Calvary, and of course the Oxford Group. None of these specifically said they were based on "moral psychology," however. I certainly don't read him as saying that other doctors did not feel this way.
In fact, he is saying the opposite: that medical people have always known that
people acquire the motivation and strength to stop drinking for complex reasons
not within the doctor's control. We would now put those reasons and that process
in the general realm of "spirituality," but I don't think that word was in Silkworth's vocabulary at the time. Doctors, like most people, were inclined to become moralistic about alcohol over-consumption, but of course they had to be on guard not to communicate this explicitly to the patient. It just wasn't, and isn't, part of the role, rarely does any good, and may do harm. I don't think Silkworth was saying anything more complicated than that. Certainly not that there were doctors (Freudian or otherwise) who didn't believe morals had anything to do with solving drinking
problems. --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "martinholmes76@..." > > What was their version of moral psychology mentioned in the Big Book in the Doctor's opinion? > > - - - - > > From Glenn C., the moderator > > (BB 4th ed. p. xxvii) Dr. Silkworth had been unable to > devise a method of "moral psychology" which would help > alcoholics, until Bill Wilson came to him as a patient, and > devised a program of recovery which Dr. Silkworth > allowed him to try out on other patients, a program > involving a kind of "moral psychology" which repeatedly > brought long term sobriety to apparently hopeless cases: > > < > but its application presented difficulties beyond our concep- > tion. What with our ultra-modern standards, our scientific > approach to everything, we are perhaps not well equipped > to apply the powers of good that lie outside our synthetic > knowledge. >
>
++++Message 6529. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Sylvia K''s Doctor From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/17/2010 9:56:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Mike M., tcumming, and Don B. - - - - From: "Michael" (mfmargetis at yahoo.com) Thank you "tcumming" for answering the question. "page 22 pf AA COMES OF AGE identifies Sylvia's doctor as a DR BROWN" Next question: What do we know about Dr. Brown? With everything he was trying to do to help Sylvia he seemed incredibly enlightened and open minded.
lived
..... and Earl contacted Dr. Brown, Sylvia came through Akron before returning to Chicao ... but she got drunk on the train home ...... but stayed sober everafter ...... D.O.S. 9/13/39 - - - - For Don's HISTORY OF CHICAGO AA, see: http://hindsfoot.org/chicago1.pdf listed on http://hindsfoot.org/archive2.html
> Hi All, > > I searched but could not seem to find the answer to this question, > forgive me if I didn't look hard enough. In Sylvia K's story "The Keys > To The Kingdom" do we know who the Doctor in Evanston is? > > Thanks, > > -Mike Margetis > > Brunswick, MD > > - - - - > > For short biographies of the authors of the > stories in the Big Book see: > > http://www.a-1associates.com/westbalto/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm > > http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html > > The following account is given there: > > According to member list index cards kept by the Chicago group, Sylvia's date of sobriety was September 13, 1939. Because of slips by Marty Mann ("Women Suffer Too,") Sylvia may have been the first woman to achieve long term sobriety .... > > She moved to Chicago thinking a new environment would help. She tried all sorts of things to control her drinking: the beer diet, the wine diet, timing, measuring, and spacing of drinks. Nothing worked. > > The next three years saw her in sanitariums, once in a ten-day coma from which she very nearly died. She wanted to die, but had lost the courage to try. > > For about one year prior to this time there was one doctor who did not give up on her. He tried everything he could think of, including having her go to mass every morning at six a.m., and performing the most menial labor for his charity patients. This doctor apparently had the intuitive knowledge that spirituality and helping others might be the answer. > > In the 1939 this doctor heard of the book Alcoholics Anonymous and wrote to New York for a copy. After reading it he tucked it under his arm and called on Sylvia. That visit marked the turning point of her life. >
seemed to have worked out a technique for arresting their alcoholism. He asked her to read the book and to talk with a man who experiencing success by using this plan. This was Earl Treat ("He Sold Himself Short"), the "Mr. T." to whom she refers on page 309. > > Earl suggested she visit Akron .... Sylvia stayed two weeks with the Snyders (Clarence Snyder, "The Home Brewmeister) in Cleveland. She met Dr. Bob, who brought other A.A. men to meet her .... > > She went back to Chicago where she eventually got sober. She worked closely with Earl Treat, and her personal secretary, Grace Cultice, became the first secretary at the Intergroup office in Chicago, the first in the country. >
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6530. . . . . . . . . . . . Dave B.''s uncle in New Hampshire From: M.J. Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/16/2010 12:15:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I've read the information that has been published both on silkworth.netand in the archives on Dave B.'s story, "Gratitude in Action" (p. 193, 4th edition of the Big Book).
Canada. On the way, "we stopped at my uncle's place in New Hampshire". Does anyone know anything about Dave's uncle? His name, or where in New Hampshire he may have lived? In gratitude, - M.J. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6531. . . . . . . . . . . . Akron honors Dr. Bob by re-naming part of Olive Street From: momaria33772 . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/20/2010 8:49:00 AM
Portion of Olive St. will be designated for AA co-founder By Stephanie Warsmith Beacon Journal staff writer Published on Tuesday, May 18, 2010 Each year, thousands travel to Akron to recognize Dr. Bob Smith for co-founding Alcoholics Anonymous. This year, Akron will thank Dr. Bob in a special way — by naming part of a street after him. Akron City Council on Monday voted to designate the section of Olive Street from North Main Street to North Howard Street ''Dr. Bob's Way.'' This section of Olive is on the north end of St. Thomas Hospital, which featured the first hospital specialty unit to treat alcoholism as a medical condition. The street designation will help celebrate the 75th anniversary of AA starting in Akron on June 10. ''I think it's a good piece of legislation and a good way to honor Dr. Bob,'' said Councilman Jeff Fusco. Summit County Councilwoman Ilene Shapiro urged Please see Dr. Bob, council members to redesignate the street and create a historical marker. ''I think it's a lovely tribute to his memory,'' she said.
cause to St. Thomas staff who have documents printed with the current street name, said Deputy Mayor Dave Lieberth. Signs with the new designation will be added on Olive at Main, Howard and Schiller Avenue after a ceremony June 14 at St. Thomas. Stephanie Warsmith can be reached at 330-996-3705 or swarsmith@thebeaconjournal.com. Or go the the site directly http://www.ohio.com/news/94046929.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6533. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: The AA version of moral psychology From: Jim . . . . . . . . . . . . 5/18/2010 3:48:00 AM
"aahistorybuffs" as to its meanings. I have found the following: Post 292 -on AAHistoryLovers kyyank@a Date: Sun,Jun 23,2002, 11:26pm Re: Moral psychology Friends, Re: Recent WDS "moral psychology" posting: Silky frequently challenged both clergy and psychologists to assist in the public education of the moral deficiencies found within the alcoholic population as a means to recognize early warning signs. The difference between the use of "psychology" (Jung), "spiritual awakening" (WDS), and "spiritual experience" (James) are in most cases interchangeable, but explained in detail in the new book: "SILKWORTH - The Little Doctor Who Loved Drunks" Hazelden Education and Information Services. All of the WDS speeches and private writings are also included within this book. ---------------------------------------- The following was taken from the new Silkworth book mentioned above: "Doctor Silkworth presented Alcoholics Anonymous as having two distinct parts - moral psychology and group psychology. In a 1939 article, be blamed those who relapsed of "taking the path of least resistance - group psychology." These people, he believed, attended meetings, engaged in Twelve Step work, spoke at AA meetings, yet relapsed because they ignored the importance of moral psychology, what Silkworth called "the vital principle of Alcoholics Anonymous."
component. Without hesitation, Dr. Silkworth always made a case that the physiological preceded the psychological. In this regard, he said, "AA can not do anything about the physiological phase. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. But, the plan of Alcoholics Anonymous can arrest the psychological compulsion to drink." It is thought that Bill Wilson later referred to this Silkworth statement at an AA convention.
of alcoholism form the basis for the Short Michigan Alcoholism Screening Test (SMAST), now used worldwide in alcoholism diagnosis.
(early warning signs) 1. Do you notice you can drink more than your friends? 2. Do you cheat about how much you can drink? 3. Is your work or personal life ignored? 4. Do you eat less when drinking? 5. Is liquor essential in your life? 6. Do you deny any of this? 7. Do you believe you can stop at any time? 8. Do you resent advice about your drinking? In 1947, Dr. Silkworth was again approached by AA for help in off-setting the public reaction to continued relapse among alcoholics. There was still a large school that believed the alcoholic relapse was indicative of a failed cure. Silkworth admonishes this population with his article "Slips and Human Nature." Also in this article, Silkworth likens alcoholism to other chronic diseases. In another first by a medical doctor, he equates relapse with a failed program, much as a tuberculosis patient might relapse if he, too, discontinued the prescribed medication and lifestyle. He wrote, "The alcoholic 'slip' is not a symptom of a psychotic condition. There is nothing 'screwy' about it at all. The patient simply didn't follow directions."
description of relapse. "Slips and Human Nature" mimics the thoughts of Haggard, or vise versa. In the paper, Silkworth had tired of the discussions on relapse as a moral failure, and the subsequent blame on the "alcoholic behavior," and attributed relapse more to simple human nature:
just like other human beings - then we can safeguard ourselves intelligently against most of the slips. Both in professional and lay circles, there is a tendency to label everything that an alcoholic may do as "alcoholic behavior." The truth is simple human nature!
has stopped drinking and started on the A.A. program of recovery .... No one is startled by the fact that relapses are not uncommon among arrested tubercular patients. But here is a startling fact - the cause is often the same as the cause which leads to "slips" for alcoholics."
Dale Mitchel ---------------------------------------- On aahistorybuffs Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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