Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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we'd "wronged." I still have a bit of a headache! Bill - - - - From: "Chuck Parkhurst" (ineedpage63 at cox.net) It seems to me that if more people in AA actually MADE amends (rather than just talking about singular versus plural) there would be more discussion about their VALUE rather than the correct use of the term. PS, If I am going to a SINGLE EMPLOYER to make amends, I am STILL making reparations (with an S) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6966. . . . . . . . . . . . Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 12:10:00 AM
entity have ever gone to court about a member stealing/embezzling funds. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6967. . . . . . . . . . . . Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 1:22:00 PM
John Sutherland will be talking about AA's basic text - the Big Book.
has been hidden away for nearly 70 years, but literary critic and AA member John Sutherland gets a chance to cast his professional eye over the manuscript that has saved countless lives."
University College London and author of Last Drink to LA, the account of his alcoholism and recovery in AA. ________________________________ http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2001/aug/13/highereducation.english IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6968. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith magazine
From: gadgetsdad . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 6:42:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The sources cited in "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers are 2 letters. One From
Bob to Ruth. One from Ruth to Bob. The issue date of the magazine in the letters
is not mentioned. The quote is "this month's" magazine. The September issue would have been on the newstands in August which is the date
of the 2 letters. If we look at the title closely it appears that the title is "Faith." "Your" is in a much smaller font therefore the confusion over the title. The source of Dr. Bob signing the article is Ruth's memory in an interview in 1977, 38 years later, when she said she thought he may have signed it. In the context of the interview the fear of being overrun by a "Train load of derelicts" is evident. The odds against having two magazines, in the same month, with Dr.Bob as the subject, and one being completely ignored, are astronomical. Eighteen years of exhaustive research shows that the only other publication in that era titled Faith was a newsletter of a small sect of Seventh Day Adventists which became
the World Wide Church of God, the organization which was headed by Herbert W. Armstrong and later Garner Ted Armstrong. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6969. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s two books on philosophy at Towns? From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 8:28:00 AM
now a
director in a large corporation. The position he refers to is Bill's at either
Honor Dealers (Bill did own 49% of "Hank's Company") or the lesser known Stain-Ox Corporation. I think you'll find that Hank was/is thought to be Case III as referred to by Silkworth in the paper "Reclamation of the Alcoholic" Warm Regards - - - - Roy Levin > > Who was the Director of a large corporation? > > I believe that Director in a large corporation refers to Hank Parkhurst who may have been included by Bill as the actual writer or at least liberally paraphrased by Bill in writing the Big Book chapter entitled "To Employers." > > Hank had previously been a sales manager for Standard Oil of New Jersey, a big time executive position which he lost due to his drinking. As most AA history devotees know, he was the "super promoter" referred to by Bill in the book, and according to original sources like Jimmy Burwell's early AA speaking tapes, one of the real motivators and instigators to the writing of the Big Book.
> > >
> > > Reclamation of the Alcoholic > > > W.D. Silkworth > > > Medical Record, April 21, 1937. > > >
> > > http://www.silkworth.net/silkworth/reclamation.html > > >
> > > Case IV (Hospital No. 1152). - A broker, who had earned as much as $25,000
a > >year, and had come, through alcohol, to a position where he was being supported > >by his wife, presented himself for treatment carrying with him two books on > >philosophy from which he hoped to get a new inspiration: His desire to > >discontinue alcohol was intense, and he certainly made every effort within
his > >own capabilities to do so. Following the course of treatment in which the > >alcohol and toxic products were eliminated and his craving counteracted, he took > >up moral psychology. At first, he found it difficult to rehabilitate himself
> >financially, as his old friends had no confidence in his future conduct. Later
> >he was given an opportunity, and is now a director in a large corporation. He > >gives part of his income to help others in his former condition, and he has
> >gathered about him a group of over fifty men, all free from their former > >alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and "moral > >psychology." To such patients we recommend "moral psychology," and in those
of > >our patients who have joined or initiated such groups the change has been > >spectacular. > > >
> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6970. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Why don''t you choose your own concept of God? From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 9:47:00 AM
many
of the accounts of this meeting. In reading Bill's Story from the Original Manuscript Draft one might piece together what occurred. Ebby arrives carrying the Oxford Group Message and its principle activities - (See What is the Oxford Group)
man..." Now one might think this statement is suddenly coming from left field until you realize that Bill and Ebby were talking about Christ and simple first century christianity. Why else would Bill introduce it here in his story? He then says "not too closely followed by those who claimed him" Bill is revealing his problem is not with Christ but with all those damn Christians who think they are
so right all the time but are really full of ****! (Bill's thinking not mine but
I do understand. He goes on to say that up to now he took what he wanted from
these teachings and left the rest. (Didn't work very well did it?)Maybe a hidden
message here! I have no doubt that Ebby tried to help seperate the "message" from those who
claimed it. They (the followers of organized religion)were not exactly a glowing
tribute to "Christianity" in Bill's eyes. In the book This Believeing World by Lewis Browne (Which Bill and Bob both read
and were greatly influenced by) one of things that both distrurbed me yet reached me most was that in Our Believing World's history humanity tends to forget the message (or place it second) and deify the messenger. I suspect in this Bill saw that we need always remember to place principles before personalities. It's about the message, not the messenger. I believe that is the
point that Bill is trying to make, and does most effectively. God Bless --- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, Roy Levin > > I highly recommend listening to the recordings ( now available on the net) of > Bill W.'s 1951 Dallas talk (not Ft Worth talk) which though covering much of the
> material in the well known "Three Legacies" talk, is much more up close and
> personal. > > In this talk he recreates essentially the message that Ebby brought to him, and
> though he does not use the line "Why don't you choose your own conception of > God?" as having been delivered verbatim from Ebby, he states Ebby's message > along the same, gentle, open minded, non-evangelical tone: > > "...and Bill, I know you're kind of shy about this God stuff, but I think I found it helpful to me, and I think you would too, to pray to whatever God you think might be out there while you go through this...( the inventory, confession, and restitution process)." > > The meaning is the same, pick whatever God you wish, and the tone is most important, nothing of this evangelical "If you don't accept Jesus as your personal savior, you ain't going to make it!" "our way is the only way" stuff. >
and instructive in the way to deliver a twelve step call, and actually quite consonant with the specific instructions in "Working With Others" chapter in the
book. > > ________________________________ > From: John Barton > Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 > Subject: Re: Why don't you choose your own concept of God? > > I believe if we carefully review the > facts on this question we will conclude that this event never occurred as > described in Bill's Story. > > Below is the comparison between the original manuscript and the first printing, > first edition big book of that portion of Bill's story that we are discussing. > We can easily see that sometime prior to the publication of this first printing > on April 10, 1939 but after the printing of the multilith manuscript in > early 1939 (produced for comments) that the following four paragraphs were added
> to Bill's Story [page 12 in the 4th edition]: > > ======================================== > Despite the living example of my friend there remained in me the vestiges of my > old prejudice. The word God still aroused a certain antipathy. When the thought
> was expressed that there might be a God personal to me this feeling was > intensified. I didn't like the idea. I could go for such conceptions as Creative > Intelligence, Universal Mind or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the thought of a > Czar of the Heavens, however loving His sway might be. I have since talked with > scores of men who felt the same way. > > My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you > choose your own conception of God?" > > That statement hit me hard. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose > shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last. >
myself. > Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could > start from that point. Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build > what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would! > ======================================== > > .... For my thinking, the reason these paragraphs are not contained in the earlier version of Bill's story is because it probably never happened as written. Had it truly occurred it would have to have been included in the earlier version (original manuscript). You wouldn't report the story without its
most profound "truth"! > > Of course Ebby would have come carrying the non-denominational Christian > message; (surrender to Jesus Christ) what other message did the Oxford Groupers
> carry? .... > > In a AAHL post # 4409 Bill Schaberg talks about the four inserted paragraphs > that appear written by hand in the printers copy. It seems there were no > notations in the manuscript to indicate the source or reason for the revision. > Dr. James Wainwright Howard from Montclair, New Jersey (see AAHL post # 6026)
> may have been the culprit. As you know he suggested dozens of edits to soften
> the book and make it more suggestive (let him choose his own concept could have
> been his suggestion). Or it may have been needed to support the change "God as
> you understand him" as made first to step three and then later again to step
> eleven. The "committee" (Hank, Bill, Fitz, Ruth, Herb and possibly others) may
> have thought this change to the story would tie up the "loose ends" into one
> neat, credible package. > > By the way, in the tape recordings I have heard of Bill > telling "the bed time story" I don't recall him ever saying that Ebby said to > him "Why don't you choose your own concept of God?" .... Bill ... may have > had trouble repeating that which wasn't true when telling his story. > > Quite "revealing" in Bill's autobiography (Bill W. My First Forty Years) there is no mention of it. I also seen to remember Mel B. saying Ebby could never recall the conversation in Bill's Kitchen other when they argued a bit over religion. > > God Bless, > John Barton > > P.S. I remember feeling a bit down when this first came to light in my mind but
> recalled how many have been helped by this statement, so I am not concerned > about its historical accuracy. I believe its inclusion in the story was > Providence. >
magazine
From: gadgetsdad . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 5:50:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII If the doctor was Dr. Bob, then the little meeting he was invited to was a meeting of the Akron Oxford Group. This magazine is also a Macfadden publication which was notorious for turning articles into fiction to meet their agenda. The author's name (D. J. Defoe) is probably a pen name. There is not a person by that name in Akron or Cuyahoga Falls in the 4 years preceding or 2 years afterwards. Dr. X is Dr. Bob. How many doctors had their story in the 1939 Big Book?
++++Message 6972. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Free Thinkers meetings From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/21/2010 3:31:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII At the 1990 international reunion in Seattle I attended a meeting for agnostics and atheists in AA. It was packed to the doors and the panel of speakers included members with over 20 years' sobriety. Also at that convention I picked up a flyer publicising non-restrictive agnostic/atheist AA groups in various states of the U.S. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6973. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Michael D Gwirtz . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 6:24:00 PM
about
AA's Tradition of Anonymity. Shakey Mike Phila. PA USA - - - - Original message: On BBC Radio 4 at 8.45 pm next Wednesday, November 3, John Sutherland will be talking about AA's basic text - the Big Book.
has been hidden away for nearly 70 years, but literary critic and AA member John Sutherland gets a chance to cast his professional eye over the manuscript that has saved countless lives."
University College London and author of Last Drink to LA, the account of his alcoholism and recovery in AA. ________________________________ http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2001/aug/13/highereducation.english IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6974. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Charley Bill . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/31/2010 1:14:00 AM
3rd,
here in Los Angeles, Pacific Standard Time. I hope my calculations are correct,
but do you know of any alternate time? 0345 is not really the best for me. - - - - Original message: > On BBC Radio 4 at 8.45 pm next Wednesday, November 3, > John Sutherland will be talking about AA's basic text > - the Big Book. > > The programme notes say: "The original manuscript > has been hidden away for nearly 70 years, but > literary critic and AA member John Sutherland gets > a chance to cast his professional eye over the > manuscript that has saved countless lives." > > Sutherland is professor of modern English at > University College London and author of Last > Drink to LA, the account of his alcoholism and > recovery in AA. > > ________________________________ > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2001/aug/13/highereducation.english IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6975. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Jonathan Lanham-Cook . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/1/2010 5:50:00 PM
basic text - informally known as the Big Book - is the Bible. After being hidden away for nearly 70 years the original manuscript by AA co-founder Bill Wilson is about to become public for the first time complete with evidence of re-writes that reveal a profound debate in 1939 about how overtly to talk about God'. 'Literary critic John Sutherland, himself a member of AA and a distinguished textual analyst, turns his textual critic's eye to the Wilson manuscript'.
least the beeb has decided to do it on his behalf?!? God bless Jonathan :-) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6976. . . . . . . . . . . . 2011 Alcoholics Anonymous History Calendar
From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/1/2010 9:28:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII The Bishop of Books 2011 Alcoholics Anonymous History Calendar is available now.
believed to be the fifty best books to read for a good understanding of A.A. history. In this 2011 calendar he gives us an additional 20 PLUS books -- for the list,
see the end of http://hindsfoot.org/fiftybk.html This 2011 edition's theme is "The Non-Alcoholic Friends of A.A." Thirteen individuals are profiled in the monthly top pages: Dr. Silkworth Milton Maxwell Sr. Ignatia Ruth Hock Rev. Sam Shoemaker Henrietta Sieberling Harry Tiebout Lois Wilson Anne Smith Nell Wing Jack Alexander Fr. Dowling and, of course, God! (with photos of all except the latter).
charges against a member? From: J. C. . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 6:12:00 PM
(johnnyjclark at roadrunner.com) Michael, That's a very good question. I have been involved with 2 groups (one victimized twice) that have had large sums of money embezzled in the greater Cleveland, Ohio area. Each time, I advocated for prosecution reasoning that drunk or sober theft is a criminal offense. I never learned anything from "a break". When I stole, I went to prison. I noticed that each time a theft occured the first reaction by most homegroup members were on of denial. They refused to acknowledge the obvious. Then, when
it was undeniable, most were afraid to confront the thief and would act as if nothing happened. I personally don't know of any instance of prosecution by A.A. members. - - - - From: "lee" (snowlilly12 at yahoo.com) Not that I know of for stealing/embezzling funds. AAWS sued an individual member
in Germany for "stealing" the copyright on the 1st edition Big Book that AAWS
didn't own and was in the public domain. The lawsuit financially ruined the member.
assisted in the lawsuit against a second Mexican GSO that had been created as a result of the main GSO's price increase on the Big Book to $28. The second GSO was created and they began to print little Big Books, once again in the public domain. A search on this will reveal the whole story. Bill had stated earlier that "a lawsuit was a public controversy." - - - - From: "Rotax Steve" (gallery5 at mindspring.com) My home group came very close. A treasurer stole $1200 over a 3 month period.
Our bills were not being paid, etc. Of course eventually that came back to the
group as a whole. At the time he was a ward of the state and collected SSI. He was not necessarily a stable member to begin with even though he had 12 years. At our group conscience meeting we (not all) voted that if we did press charges he would spend a month or so in jail and we would never see the money anyway. That action would not be very beneficial to his recovery. We also considered it an outside issue. Whether or not we were correct, that's what we did. After this incident, he decided to move ... oh, how convenient. Steve Hudson Southern Idaho - - - - From: "mrpetesplace" (peter at aastuff.com) I've know of several times the money was gone by those trusted but never heard
of charges being pressed. One situation I remember hearing a year later where a
check was received from one person for the funds in question. Only time I've heard of charges being pressed were by individual members, once
being punched out after a meeting. Another was stabbed in the back leaving a meeting. But in both cases, it was individuals and no action was taken to ban the members in question. This will be interesting to hear if there was. I believe one Area Assembly I attended had a very large amount missing. I don't know if any action was taken or not, it was probably 12-15 years ago and I had relocated since. Pete IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6978. . . . . . . . . . . . Clipping service for GSO scrapbooks From: gadgetsdad . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/30/2010 9:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Has anyone ever done any research about the clipping service that Bill used? These are the ones in the big scrapbooks that GSO produces. I am curious as to where the money came from in that chaotic time. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6979. . . . . . . . . . . . Kate Lee and Twice Born Men From: diazeztone . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/31/2010 5:08:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Salvation Army book about a woman named Kate Lee is related to Twice Born Men.
Now available online: The Angel Adjutant of "Twice Born Men" by Minnie Lindsay Rowell Carpenter http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=7039 ================================================= Kate Lee had been a Salvation Army Field Officer for fifteen years, when suddenly she became famous. In gathering material for the writing of "Twice Born Men," Harold Begbie had been no less impressed by the sweetness and wisdom of the woman who had won from sin to righteousness several of the notable characters with whom the book deals, than he was with the miracle of their conversion. Just posted for everyone's interest. I had read Twice Born Men and did not recall her. ld pierce www.aabibliography.com IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6980. . . . . . . . . . . . Listening to BBC Radio on your computer
From: Dudley Dobinson . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 6:22:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Here is a link for listening to the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_radio_fourfm Hope this helps. In fellowship - Dudley D. - Birr,Ireland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6981. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Fiona Dodd . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 1:40:00 AM
(charley92845 at gmail.com) Has anyone determined what time these presentations will be heard in the States?
I am challenged by such things as time determination, and would appreciate some
help. We are in the Pacific Daylight Savings Time Zone until 2 AM Nov 7 when we revert to Pacific Standard Time. - - - - FROM THE MODERATOR: http://www.worldtimezone.com/ http://everytimezone.com/ http://www.timezonecheck.com/ European Union Summer Time: End: last Sunday in October -- 1 am GMT on 31 Oct 2010 Start: last Sunday in March -- 1 am GMT on 27 Mar 2011
End: first Sunday in November -- 2 am on 7 Nov 2010 Start: second Sunday in March -- 2 am on 13 Mar 2011
(mcullen at shaw.ca) We should be able to listen to BBC recordings on the net later and it may also
be a podcast. Mike IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6982. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: How many angels can stand on the head of a pin? From: MattD . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 6:54:00 PM
(Bill Wilson's main editorial consultant). - - - - Dear Group, I couldn't help but share this article since it actually is about "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin." It was written by Thomas E. Powers (Bill Wilson's main editorial consultant) and appeared in the August 1974 issue of 24 Magazine. - - - - HOW MANY? by Thomas E. Powers There has been a remarkable change in the mental climate of the human race in the past few years. A generation ago "liberals" and "modernists" had gone very far, indeed, to explain away anything and everything like miracles, using science as the basis of their attack. All this is now radically changed by the
new directions science has taken. You can no longer use science to disprove the
supernatural or the preternatural, and real scientists know it. The result is that many things that were considered ridiculously out of the realm of possibility not so long ago are now back in the categories of the possibly true and even of the probably true.
supporting the reappearance of eternal truths in force — is subject to the phenomenon called "cultural lag." We continue to suffer from certain hangovers of 19th century "scientific" debunking of the preternatural. For example, when
the subject of angels comes up modern men still are very apt to say, "Oh, but,
of course, angels don't really exist." This is a typical example of negative superstition, based upon the pseudoscience or upon the incomplete and overconfident science of years gone by. There is no indication that angels do not exist, except in the prejudices of certain people who never have seriously looked into the subject and indeed are not very well qualified to do so. Over and over again in my life I have had to listen, and now my children are having to listen, to modern teachers despising and patronizing the medieval scholastics and giving as a prime example of their folly the fact that they debated the question, "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?" Not for a moment is it asked whether these old scholars had a real issue under consideration. There is only the crude assumption that these earnest inquirers into higher realities were fools.
a most interesting one, having to do with the nature of angels. The question is: "Given the fact that an angel is a created being of a higher order than the embodied beings we commonly experience, i.e., men, animals and vegetables; and
given also the fact that holy scripture repeatedly describes angels as using bodies and employing bodily faculties in their dealings with men; what, then, is the quality of an angel's body? (1) Does its substantiality extend to the gross matter of the phenomenal world with which we are familiar (even though not bound by gravity as we are)? If so, only one angel can stand on the point of a pin. Or (2) is the substantiality of an angel's body of a much subtler nature, such for example as cosmic rays, electronic energies, etc.? Or (3) is the angel's body perhaps a form of such fine substantiality that it exceeds our categories of matter and energy altogether? In either of the latter two cases, any number of angels can stand on the point of a pin, because while gross bodies exclude each other from a given area of space, certain kinds of subtle bodies are not so limited, and numbers of them, without confusion or inconvenience, may occupy the
same space. The question about the angels and the point of a pin is not at all a ridiculous question. It becomes so only if we assume, as many modern people still do, that
"of course, angels do not exist." If these moderns are right in their assumption, belief in angels is a dark superstition. But if they are wrong (and they very well may be), then who is in dark superstition? Men who, without serious and humble reflection, leap to the conclusion that angels do not exist make a blind and reckless judgment about the nature and the inhabitants of the universe in which we live. And from there it is an easy step to the further blind judgment that the King of the Angels also does not exist, that in this cosmos there is no Lord, no Master, no Supreme Being. We "scientific" moderns had better be careful whom we call fools. We may be right on the point of discovering, with a vengeance, who the real fools are. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6983. . . . . . . . . . . . Who wrote Living Sober? From: John Moore . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/1/2010 10:03:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In "The Book That Started It All" AA original working manuscript recently published by Hazelden ... in the introductory pages they trace the whereabouts of the original manuscript, and state that Lois Wilson gave it as a New Year's gift to her dear friend Barry Leach, with whom she had been very close for many years.
Sober."
1970's. My home group received a solicitation from New York asking for stories or contributions to this book which was planned for publication about 1975 as I recall. It seemed to me that our members are the authors of this volume and I have never before heard mention of Barry Leach's work on it ... can anyone shed more light on this? Thanks, John M
South Burlington, Vermont - - - - From the moderator: the only known photo of Barry Leach was taken by Mel Barger.
A copy can be found at http://www.aabibliography.com/barry_leach_living_sober.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6984. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith magazine
From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/2/2010 10:22:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I believe the Works Publishing Inc Report to the Shareholders dated 6/30/1940 identifies the magazine as "Your Faith."
Subject: Re: Dr. Bob article in Your Faith magazine The following is the mention of Dr. Bob's "Faith" magazine article from "Dr. Bob
and the Good Old Timers" pp. 175-176: ========================= "At this time, Dr. Bob wrote and may have signed an article on A.A. and the Big Book that appeared in the August 1939 issue of a magazine called Faith." ========================= This mentions that the magazine is called "Faith" and not "Your Faith". Are these the same magazines? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6985. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Stephen Aberle . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 5:53:00 PM
was
instead given a generalized rehash (incorrect on some points) of AA history and
how AA works (in his opinion). IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6986. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Who wrote Living Sober? From: Jeff Bruce . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 6:09:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII You might try this site http://xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php and type "Barry L" into the search box. I believe that one of the two links will provide you with a speaker tape by him which might have the information you want.
> > In "The Book That Started It All" AA original working manuscript recently > published by Hazelden ... in the introductory pages they trace the > whereabouts of the original manuscript, and state that Lois Wilson gave it > as a New Year's gift to her dear friend Barry Leach, with whom she had been
> very close for many years. > > They go on to say that Barry Leach was the author of the book "Living > Sober." > > My understanding of Living Sober comes from being a newcomer in the early > 1970's. My home group received a solicitation from New York asking for > stories or contributions to this book which was planned for publication > about 1975 as I recall. It seemed to me that our members are the authors of > this volume and I have never before heard mention of Barry Leach's work on > it ... can anyone shed more light on this? > > Thanks, > John M > South Burlington, Vermont > > - - - - > > From the moderator: the only known photo of Barry Leach was taken by Mel > Barger. A copy can be found at > > http://www.aabibliography.com/barry_leach_living_sober.html > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6987. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Bill W''s two books on philosophy at Towns? From: Roy Levin . . . . . . . . . . . . 10/31/2010 6:16:00 PM
"securities analyst" and pool manager than a phone salesman like most "account executives" who dial for dollars. But if Silkworth was referring to Bill, the good doctor's putting him as "heading a large corporation" is exaggeration worthy of both Bill and super-promoter Hank, because Bill didn't have a real world job position or a pot to piss in for years in early sobriety. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6988. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Des Green . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/3/2010 7:15:00 PM
BBC - BBC Radio 4 - Programmes - The AA Bible - - - - That is, click on the main BBC home page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ Then on Radio -- World Service -- Radio 4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/ Then in "Find a Programme," click on the letter A http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/a-z/by/a Go to the 10th item down: "AA Bible, The" http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vr78f - - - - SENT IN BY Des Green (puggreen2008 at yahoo.co.uk) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6989. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Michael . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:56:00 AM
seemed as if it was someone who knew little to nothing about AA and/or AA history. More than disappointing, I would say more like, disturbing!
Brunswick, Maryland IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6990. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Who wrote Living Sober? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:53:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Barry was hired by AAWS to put the manuscript of Living Sober (then unpublishable) into shape for publication. He did a huge amount of rewriting and was paid the editorial fee for which he contracted (I think it was maybe $4,000 for what was pretty much a year's work -- some details are in the Kirk Collection at Brown -- possibly in the Clarence S[-----] Papers.
especially reorganization he did, but never got it. You could say he was the principal author of Living Sober, just as you could say
Bill was the principal author of AA Comes of Age -- but we say Bill "wrote" AACOA.
partly (I have heard) because she thought he had deserved more for "writing" LS than he had received. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6991. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Big Book radio talk on BBC Radio 4 on November 3 From: Bill Lash . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 10:23:00 AM
Barefoot Bill IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6992. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Clipping service for GSO scrapbooks From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 11:31:00 AM
Clipping
Service: http://www.burrellesluce.com/company/history - - - - Original message from: "gadgetsdad" > > Has anyone ever done any research about the clipping service that Bill used? These are the ones in the big scrapbooks that GSO produces. I am curious as to where the money came from in that chaotic time. > IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6993. . . . . . . . . . . . Fr. Ralph Pfau, My Retreat Booklet and Way of the Cross From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/6/2010 4:00:00 PM
e-mailed me and asked me about this book by Father Ralph Pfau, entitled "My Retreat Booklet and Way of the Cross." The e-mail said:
book: My Retreat Booklet and Way of the Cross by Ralph Pfau. The retreatants really love this booklet. I am trying to find some copies to purchase or reproduce. I have not been successful in locating it. It was published in 1955. I expected to have problems due to the date. But, it is so wanted by these retreatants that I thought I would really try to find it." I cannot figure out what book this e-mail is referring to. Does anyone in this
group know anything about a book by Father Ralph which has that title? Thanks, Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana) ____________________________________ Father Ralph Pfau was one of the four most- published early AA authors, for more about him see: http://hindsfoot.org/pflou1.html
From: James Blair . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 3:17:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII J Lobdell wrote: "I believe he requested some royalty-sharing, given the thorough rewrite and especially reorganization he did, but never got it."
demands for more compensation after the book became more popular than expected.
Bill's
talks with the AA Comes of Age book in hand you will find that the book is almost completely transcribed from the tapes. Jim IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 6995. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/4/2010 8:59:00 AM
Stockholm in Sweden, Kimball Rowe, and Baileygc23
(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) In the words of the late Michael Alexander, Class A Trustee, sometime Chairman
of the Board, the lawyer who helped Bill write the Twelve Concepts (and loaned
him a copy of Tocqueville's Democracy in America in the process), ideally "in AA
we don't go to law, we go to prayer." - - - - From: "Sherry C. Hartsell" Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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