Aa history Lovers 2010 moderators Nancy Olson and Glenn F. Chesnut page
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(heat_cool2004 at yahoo.com), Mike says: > > > > I have a traditions question. I believe that > > meditation is one of the most misunderstood tools > > in our AA toolbox, so, I'd like to put on a one > > hour 'meditation workshop.' I have a non-alcoholic > > workshop trainer who is a Ph.D. in theology and > > teaches at a local seminary. He's also worked > > with alcoholics over the years. > > > > On the flyer I have a disclaimer stating that > > he is not endorsed or approved by AA, and > > that he is volunteering his help. A couple of > > people have said that doing this is against > > our AA traditions .... > >
any
aspect of our AA program of recovery that you feel is lacking or misunderstood in your local area. It's efforts like this that keeps our program from being distorted into something that may well extinguish the spark that makes it work.
needed on the content of your workshop before questions concerning the Traditions can be answered.
who
is a Ph.D. in theology and teaches at a local seminary." Meditation is one of many words that I had a problem with when I came to AA. During my drinking years I had been involved in some of that crossed-legged OM-chanting variety that was popular in the 70s. I read about early AAs practice
following the Oxford Group practices -- daily Bible reading and Quiet Time. I also read that one of the reasons AA broke away from the OG was a result of that Quiet Time -- listening for direction from a Higher Power for the individual or OTHER group members, then "checking"/informing them. Telling them what THEY HAD to do.
I read how Dr Bob and Anne in Akron continued with the Bible reading and Quiet
Time [dropping the quest for guidance for others and the checking], but that didn't seem to have carried on on a large scale to my locale in the 70s. I knew that in the early AA days they tried many things and discarded those that didn't work for the majority. So that may not be what AAs meant by meditation either. So I struggled along with the question till I found what works for me. ______________________________ Having said all that ... will your workshop be focused on a particular form/version of meditation? A "HOW" to do it type? Or will it be a "RESULTS" type program? -- We do it to: #1. calm the upset mind / turn off or tune down negative emotions, #2. even out the daily emotional flux, or #3. receive guidance from ones Higher Power Or, I guess it could be a combination of the above or something else as well.
______________________________ How will the workshop deal with the ties between meditation and AA's concept of "God, as we understand Him"? Some in AA are "broad highway" believers, while others focus on how "narrow is the gate." ______________________________ With just the info in your message, there is a broad range of where the problem/s may be. #1. Fear that the workshop will tell someone they are wrong in how they meditate
presented
how
sober AAs practice meditation #4. Fear that the instructor at the seminary will slant it toward his denomination of Christianity ______________________________
Traditions may become clearer. Without it, the only question about Traditions I feel I can address concerns Tradition #1 - UNITY. In your message you said a "couple of people have said that doing this is against our AA traditions."If those on one or both sides go power driving at the group about the issue, it can seriously effect your groups unity.
be more a matter of group autonomy then ... how your group has historically put into local practice the precepts of AA as a whole ??? ______________________________ Would it be possible for you to consider a format change .... one where your PhD
does his presentation, then a panel of say 3-4 sober AA members give a brief talk on how they practice meditation [giving a bit of a span of possibilities of what works in AA] ?? Maybe even having one of those raising concerns be on the panel might quiet any controversy or concerns. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7007. . . . . . . . . . . . A.A.W.S. Conference Approved From: jamesjharp@suddenlink.net> . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/11/2010 9:19:00 AM
does
not mean that it is "disapproved." Who among us has not read some materials that were not A.A.W.S. Conference "approved?!" An example of such a publication would be "Twenty-Four Hours a Day," author Richmond Walker, first published by the AA group in Daytona Beach, Florida, in 1948.
published in 1946 by him and Barry Collins under the sponsorship of the the Nicollet AA group in Minneapolis, Minnesota -- a reported favorite read of Doctor Robert Smith, published years before the A.A.W.S. Conference literature-sanctioning "approval" process circa 1951. A.A. members are free, without any recrimination, to read whatever literature they choose to read; including antiquarian publications, many of which were published long before the A.A.W.S. Conference "approval" process was implemented by A.A. World Services, Inc.. Keeping it Real, Jim H. Chicago, IL 10-20-83
http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla3.html also http://hindsfoot.org/rwfla1.html http://hindsfoot.org/RWfla2.html http://hindsfoot.org/rwpix1.html
http://hindsfoot.org/ed01.html IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7008. . . . . . . . . . . . The meaning of Anonymity From: jax760 . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/11/2010 11:03:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Here in New Jersey, many groups have this statement read at the beginning of meetings. It is read regardless of the meeting format i.e open, closed, discussion, speaker, etc.
us to place principles before personalities ... this means that who you see here and what you hear here, please let it stay here when you leave here." Is this a New Jersey thing....or a NY/NJ, East Coast AA tradition? As this group
encompasses a wide geography can anyone tell me if they hear this in their respective areas and might anyone have any info on its roots? Not looking for any clarifications of the anonymity concept .... just the history behind this aphorism. God Bless John B - - - - From Glenn C. Many AA meetings in northern Indiana read what is called the Tools of Recovery
at the beginning of the meeting. It contains the anonymity phrase: "Whom you see here, what you hear here, when
you leave here, let it stay here. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our
program." This originally came from a sign posted at Atomic Energy Commission centers during the Second World War, in the U.S. for sure (a photograph has survived) and probably in the U.K. as well (since the two countries were working closely together to build the first atomic bomb). The first recorded AA usage had "WHO you see here ...." The Al-Anons began using
the little slogan then, and quickly corrected the AA's grammar to read "WHOM you
see here ...." Hoosier AA's quickly and gratefully accepted the Al-Anon correction of their grammar. (You folks in New Jersey, come visit us here in Indiana sometime, and we'll explain why it's whom instead of who.) ========================================== THE A.A. TOOLS OF RECOVERY ABSTINENCE We commit ourselves to stay away from the first drink, one day at a time. MEETINGS We attend A.A. meetings to learn how the program works, to share our experience, strength and hope with each other, and because through the support of the fellowship, we can do what we could never do alone. SPONSOR A sponsor is a person in the A.A. program who has what we want and is continually sober. A sponsor is someone you can relate to, have access to and can confide in. TELEPHONE The telephone is our lifeline -- our meeting between meetings. Call before you
take the first drink. The more numbers you have, the more insurance you have.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous is our basic tool and text. The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and A.A. pamphlets are recommended reading, and are available at this meeting. SERVICE Service helps our personal program grow. Service is giving in A.A. Service is leading a meeting, making coffee, moving chairs, being a sponsor, or emptying ashtrays. Service is action, and action is the magic word in this program. ANONYMITY Whom you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our program. (see http://hindsfoot.org/tools.html for the story of how they were written) ==========================================
From: looking@pigsfly.com> . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/13/2010 4:26:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII In South Florida, many (probably most) groups read this at the end of the meeting, but don't understand the reason "whom" should be used. We consider ourselves lucky if the pronunciation of "here" doesn't sound like "har."
non-AA speakers From: Dov W . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/11/2010 7:36:00 AM
here
on this forum. First the question. Your core question was put to the Cleveland Groups in September '44 before there
were Traditions as described in the Cleveland bulletins: "The group decided to hold the first mass meeting at Cleveland Hotel on Sunday.
the 15th of October. at 4 PM. A prominent Cleveland ‘attorney will be the speaker. Invitational open meeting. *The question as to to whether any future **mass meeting be addressed by a non-alcoholic outside speaker was referred to groups for an ecpression of opinion".* http://silkworth.net/cb/1944.pdf Now to address the question, first the case in favor. Apparently by 1949 it became common practice to include non-AAs in Cleveland meetings because here is what the Cleveland Bulletin of October '78 (after Traditions came into effect) discussed in the way of new business at a Cleveland mass-meeting: "we may have a non A.A. speaker at an A.A. meeting. (Secretary’s handbook, 1949). Typical open meeting variation is the inclusion of a non A.A. speaker -- for example -- physician, psychiatrist, clergymen or author who is usually put on the program as the last speaker before the leader closes". In the June '61 issue of the Grapevine (also after Traditions came into effect),
"Formula for an AA Meeting in the East" we have the following description of non-AA speakers in special open meetings on the East Coast, If the meeting you are to lead is a special one –- a group anniversary for instance, with prominent non-AA speakers, a clergyman, a warden or a judge ...
as is suggested at in the 44 question pamphlet: "A typical open meeting will usually have a "leader" and other speakers. The leader opens and closes the meeting and introduces each speaker. *With rare exceptions, the speakers at an open meeting are A.A. members.*
against
it. Now the case against. There are GSO recommendations that seem to bar a non-alcoholic from speaking and even sharing: 1968 -- It was recommended that: AA groups in correctional facilities and hospitals adhere to AA's Fifth Tradition, on primary purpose of carrying the message to the alcoholic. *That anyone with problems other than alcohol be made
welcome at inside open meetings, but not participate in group activities*. 1969 - b. ... *AA groups in institutions can welcome anyone with problems other
than alcohol to inside open meetings, but it is suggested that they do not speak
or otherwise participate in these meetings. * http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2594 In a Grapevine article in 1971, "The Legacy of Recovery" Bill W wrote, "Thoughtful AAs, however, encourage these sponsors to bring addicts to open meetings, just as they would any other interested people. In the end, these addicts usually gravitate to other forms of therapy. *They are not received on the platform in open meetings unless they have an alcohol problem*, and closed meetings are, of course, denied them. We know that we cannot do everything for everybody with an addiction problem". The truth though is that these recommendations and guidelines address the issue
of other addictions - "problems other than alcohol" which fall under dual purpose and break Tradition 5. More recently it seems that excluding all non-alcoholics from the podium is becoming routine with the only question being sharing: "*At open meetings, non-A.A.s may be invited to share, depending upon the conscience of the group*". http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/mg-08_relationshipbet.pdf And lastly the pamphlet, "The AA Group" revised in 2005 adds a new sentence in its description of open meetings, Open meetings are available to anyone interested in Alcoholics Anonymous’ program of recovery from alcoholism. *Nonalcoholics may attend open meetings as observers*. The implication seems clear - non-alcoholics can attend as observers but can neither speak nor share. Although this was not original AA practice it now seems to represent the fellowship's current consensus. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7011. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: Jim Ringbloom . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/9/2010 9:40:00 AM
is the principle of rotation. Our treasurer recently volunteered to continue serving after her 6 month term was up. No one had stepped forward to take the
commitment. As soon as she offered to continue, three people volunteered. Not
only does this enable others to be of service, it prevents long-term, gradual
draining of the funds. The most common method of the theft is to not make the
suggested donations. These can frequently be checked by viewing the record of donations published by the district, area, intergroup, etc. In love and service, Doris R. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7012. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: pvttimt@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/13/2010 3:58:00 PM
one
bureaucracy they have become. The system has taken on a life of its own and will do
anything
fancied
bureaucracy they have become"? .... the GSO folks all go in a smoke-filled back room
once or
stay
non-AA speakers From: planternva2000 . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/11/2010 1:28:00 PM
(planternva2000 at yahoo.com) Convention were non-AAs, for example, Father Ed Dowling and Reverend Sam Shoemaker. We have non-AAs on the board at GSO. Perhaps those who object
will
attended by other AAs. (SerenityLodge at gmail.com) > These folks hold that anything not conference approved > is not fit to be read by an AA member, etc.
hasn't got a damn thing to do with it. paranoia. approved as staying within AA traditions, not straying off into tangents. We are
encouraged to read and use whatever else we wish in our recovery.
psychiatry, other self help ideas, and etc. been
other
you're in an AA meeting or some sort of strange "cult". I have . . . and I ran
as fast as I could. 9/9/82
++++Message 7014. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The meaning of Anonymity From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/13/2010 5:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Jared Lobdell, Maxwell Clemo, Charley Bill, and Carl Kirsch - - - - From: "J. Lobdell" (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com) "Who you see here / What they say here / When you leave here / Let it stay here"
-- form used at end of meeting in Eastern/Central Pennsylvania, I believe. - - - - From: "Maxwell Clemo" (maxclem at msn.com) It is certainly the case in the UK, except to say that the phrase "Whom you see here" would be too pedantic and precious a use of spoken English for most AAs. "Who you see here" is fine for every meeting I've been to.
From: Charley Bill (charley92845 at gmail.com) In Southern California, most of the groups I have visited use this at the end of their meeting and I have never heard anyone change it to whom. I'm afraid popular usage has permanently corrupted and changed the language. Anyway, I've heard it said that "when in Rome do as the Romans." It doesn't bother me any more, but I am a third generation Florida Cracker, far from home. - - - - From: "Carl V. Kirsch" (carlkirsch at yahoo.com) Jax: We close all our meetings here in Atlanta with similar language. It's a reminder
that we should be mindful of others and their desire for anonymity. Carl Kirsch Atlanta, GA - - - - ORIGINAL MESSAGE FROM Glenn C. http://hindsfoot.org/tools.html In the late 1970's and early 1980's, A.A. all over the St. Joseph river valley
in northern Indiana experienced a period of rapid growth, producing a huge influx of raw beginners, along with the creation of many additional meetings. Three of the old-timers got together -- Bill Peters, Don Helvey, and Marcel "Ben" Benson -- along with two other men who were relatively new to the program
-- Chainsaw Clint Becker and Jan N. -- and put together a short piece called the
A.A. Tools of Recovery, summarizing the seven most important things which they
felt that these newcomers to the program needed to know. Benson was a Frenchman and Clint got his nickname from an incident that happened back when he was still
drinking. He was working as a tree trimmer at that time, his wife got mad at him
and locked him out of the house, and he cut the door out with a chainsaw. The Tools of Recovery are still to this day read at the beginning of many A.A.
meetings in the St. Joseph river valley region along with reading the twelve steps. Many of the good old-timers believed that it was important to repeat these basic principles over and over, until newcomers had them instinctively drilled into their heads, and could repeat them almost like a litany. The first principle made it clear that the way an alcoholic kept from getting
drunk was not to take even the first drink. The next five were the things that
not only got people sober but kept them sober. Good sponsors noted that those
who relapsed and returned to drinking had almost invariably failed to do one or more of these five things in any serious and dedicated way. And the seventh principle was a constant reminder that A.A. meetings could not function properly
unless members could talk about all of their feelings and anything that was bothering them, in an accepting and shame-free atmosphere, without worrying about whether it was going to be repeated outside of the group. That was a solemn pledge which the members of the group had to make to one another. ========================================== THE A.A. TOOLS OF RECOVERY ABSTINENCE We commit ourselves to stay away from the first drink, one day at a time. MEETINGS We attend A.A. meetings to learn how the program works, to share our experience, strength and hope with each other, and because through the support of the fellowship, we can do what we could never do alone. SPONSOR A sponsor is a person in the A.A. program who has what we want and is continually sober. A sponsor is someone you can relate to, have access to and can confide in. TELEPHONE The telephone is our lifeline -- our meeting between meetings. Call before you
take the first drink. The more numbers you have, the more insurance you have.
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous is our basic tool and text. The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions and A.A. pamphlets are recommended reading, and are available at this meeting. SERVICE Service helps our personal program grow. Service is giving in A.A. Service is leading a meeting, making coffee, moving chairs, being a sponsor, or emptying ashtrays. Service is action, and action is the magic word in this program. ANONYMITY Whom you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here.
Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our program. ========================================== IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7015. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: Dolores . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/14/2010 3:42:00 PM
The original message #7005 was from Lee Nickerson I was very close to the late Frank M., Past Archivist (the only alcoholic Archivist) who took over from Nell Wing. We met once a month for a year spending time in the office researching Maine history, going out for late dinners and even later meetings. Frank was forced to resign as the result of his involvement with Joe and Charlie's workshop and other movements that disturbed AAWS. That
was the reason given by AAWS. Most in the minority felt that AAWS wanted a non-alcoholic archivist who would be more amenable or malleable to the tricks forthcoming. The next trick was when AAWS requested a payment of $150,000 from the city of San Diego to hold the 1995 Convention there (which they got). An uproar erupted but when every salaried staff worker, director and Grapevine staff is clicked down to submission to a larger will, things get murky and undone. Frank M. started a movement for every AA member to send $5 and we could pay San
Diego back. It made AAWS retaliate and Frank was soon gone after 30 years of service to GSO. ==============================================
Charley BB study in Nürnberg, Germany. His share on the history of AA and the pictures he brought along to show us, really got me interested in Archives. It was the beginning. I know he and Nell Wing spoke in Bristol, England a few times together and they shared about the Tradition and the Concepts. It was a pleasure to know him and to share with him. I do hope that what you shared about will never happen. Bill W sure knew us alcoholics! Dolores - - - - From: "bxdennis" I am not aware of any "attack" on our past archivist, Frank M .... While I also
followed the activities with respect to the Mexican situation and was a good friend of Frank M., I am unaware of the "facts" underlying the post .... While I was aware of Frank's admiration of the Joe and Charlie Big Book seminars
and he admittedly made the mistake of allowing their organizers to have access
to a mailing list of names and addresses of general service voluntary workers
without following the normal protocol for requesting such a list, this happened
years before Frank's voluntary decision to retire. At the time, Frank told me that he got a slap on the wrist and then proceeded to provide me with a copy of Nell Wing's book which he was also told not to sell from beneath his desk with a wink. Furthermore, once these allegations are made about AAWS (wasn't it the Int'l Convention Committee in San Diego that was at the center of the $150,000 issue and not AAWS?), literature conspiracies, "murky and undone" actions, forced retirements, etc. haven't we strayed from a discussion of factual history to a discussion of opinion and innuendo? Dennis M. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7016. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: Chuck Parkhurst . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/14/2010 1:19:00 AM
OVERLY SELF-PROTECTIVE AND POWER DRIVEN From Chuck Parkhurst, Lee Nickerson, looking@pigsfly, and Carl Kirsch =================================== The original message #7012 was from (pvttimt at aol.com) < would clearly see that they are ready to do anything to protect the bureaucracy they have become. The system has taken on a life of its own and will do anything
to assure its survival.>> Conspiracy theorists, when asked for the motivations of their real or fancied
opponents, often find refuge in vague allegations ... "protect the bureaucracy they have become"? .... the GSO folks all go in a smoke-filled back room once or
twice a month to conjure and plot against the fellowship of AA in order to stay
"in power," is that it? =================================== From: "Chuck Parkhurst" This [pvtimt's comment] sounds argumentative and like conjecture/opinion. - - - - From: Lee Nickerson I found that [the tendency of the bureaucracy to become overly self-protective] to be true during the 90s when I had a very close relationship to GSO and AAWS.
Bureaucracies do take on a life of their won and it doesn't need a "conspiracy" to bend rules enough to survive. At the levels below GSO we trust in God to protect us. Above that it's lawyers, Charter translation and arbitrary decisions. Maybe one needs to become a delegate and spend ten days replacing words in pamphlets to see who really controls the Fellowship. - - - - From: "At every crossroads on the path that leads to the future, tradition has placed
10,000 men to guard the past" -- Maurice Maeterlinck The concept of inertia of established organizations resisting change and becoming transfixed with the mandate of maintaining the status quo is pretty well established. A left-handed suggestion that someone is a conspiracy theorist
in pointing that out is itself a vague allegation. AA changes slowly, whether that be the admission that women are alcoholics, that
non-smoking meetings aren't instances of "outside issues in AA," that people can
be cross-addicted and sharing that in meetings can be helpful to others, and that gay meetings don't turn the fellowship queer. The anti-change folks aren't plotting against the fellowship to stay in power.
They believe they know best because they are in power and rose there because their ideas are more perfect than those whom they left along the path. There are people in the fellowship who believe it is just fine as it is, and there are those of us who think it needs to change with time in the same way it was fine tuned at its inception. Neither group is evil, but the suggestion that we are, is. - - - - From: "Carl V. Kirsch" Worry not. See what Bill had to say in his Grapevine article on the 4th Tradition in "Language of the Heart." Groups are sovereign. No other AA entity can discipline them. That's God's job, according to Bill. Carl Kirsch Atlanta, GA IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7017. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Meditation From: Carl V. Kirsch . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/14/2010 9:37:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Dear Glenn: Assuming meditation" is a problem, it is an 11th Step problem and
not a Tradition problem. For me, I am clear on what the word means in the A.A.
sense of the word. Thus, for me there is no problem. For example, the instructions on what we are to do as "meditation" in the A.A.
sense of the word is clearly spelled out in the Big Book on Pages 86-88, particularly that part beginning with "Upon awakening." Generally speaking, most dictionaries of worth define "meditation" to be religious contemplation or spiritual introspection. One of the synonyms for "meditation" is to "think." Thus, "meditation" in AA means to think in those ways as described in the BB at Pages 86-88; that meaning is entirely consistent with Pages 86-88 of our Book. "Meditation" as A.A. intends it to be is not yoga or the reduction of one's blood pressure, although the latter can be a by product of doing those things set out on Pages 86-88 in the Big Book. So, I would suggest we not confuse "meditation" as A.A. sees it to be "meditation" commonly tossed around by other
interests. Humbly yours, Carl Kirsch Atlanta, Georgia IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7018. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Meditation From: Glenn Chesnut . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/15/2010 4:49:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Carl, I very much agree with you. You wrote < to be religious contemplation or spiritual introspection.>>
"meditation" changed during the 1960's and 1970's. So a modern English dictionary doesn't give you exactly the same definition of the word as a dictionary written back in the 1930's and 1940's would say. On the other hand, what early AA's called "quiet time" back in the 1930's (originally following Oxford Group practice) slowly changed into something more like the kind of Buddhist and Hindu meditation where you try to shut off all the thoughts inside your head.* This wasn't mentioned in the wording of the Eleventh Step, but it WAS part of early AA practice. If you want to see what the words "prayer" and "meditation" basically meant back
during the early AA period, look at a copy of Twenty-Four Hours a Day, the second most used book in early AA. On each page you will see a section called "Meditation for the Day" -- several
sentences which we read in the morning, and then spend a short period thinking
about. We ask ourselves questions like: Where does this apply to my life? Are
there parts of this which I am not doing in my spiritual life? Do I need to change my attitude about God and life? Or change my behavior? This kind of thing is what the word meditation primarily means in Step Eleven. "Prayer for the Day" is then an example of a good prayer. Too many alcoholics come into the program thinking that "God, help me win the lottery today" and "God, please let me get home without being arrested by the cops" and other narrowly selfish prayers of that sort are good prayers. So we need somebody, not
only to explain that narrowly selfish prayers of that sort are NOT good prayers,
but also to give us examples of what good prayers are. The Twenty-Four Hour book shows us (by example) that praying for myself to have
greater tolerance, more faith in God, more humility, more sympathy and compassion for others, and things of this sort ARE good prayers, the kind of good prayers that the Big Book talks about.
_______________________________________ *The Oxford Group "quiet time" in its original form was also very different from
Hinduism, Buddhism, or any kind of later AA practice. With the original OG method, you sat down with pencil and paper, and during that quiet time, wrote down all the thoughts that came into your mind. Then you read them afterward, looking for guidance from God. Including how you should take the inventories of the other people in the program, and "check them" (go up to them and explain to them the error of their ways) so they would learn to act as wisely and morally as you (Lord help us). I have never heard of any early AA person using pencil and paper during quiet
time. Maybe they might have very, very early in the development of AA, before
they had split with the OG, but I have never seen any written references to it myself. Maybe somebody could come up with a text I have forgotten about, but I think using pencil and paper was never part of AA practice, or wasn't for very long.
influenced by Hinduism (notice the Sanskrit quote at the beginning of his book) moved even further away from OG practice. Quiet time was now to be used, not to obtain guidance necessarily, but just to be alone with the transcendent power beyond the world of space and time, for its own sake, and because we came back from this experience filled with both calm and a new power to do God's will. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7019. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Meditation From: James Bliss . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/15/2010 8:14:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Just for documentation of the definition of the word meditation. The following is from *The Winston Simplified Dictionary*, Intermediate Edition, copyright 1928:
part
of one's prayers or devotions. meditate v.i. muse or think deeply; contemplate:-- v.t. 1. to think or muse upon: 2, to design; purpose; plan I picked this dictionary up at a garage sale several years back for $.50 for exactly this purpose. Jim - - - - On 11/15/2010 3:49 PM, Glenn Chesnut wrote: > The thing that confuses people nowadays, is that the meaning of the > word "meditation" changed during the 1960's and 1970's. So a modern > English dictionary doesn't give you exactly the same definition of the > word as a dictionary written back in the 1930's and 1940's would say. > If you want to see what the words "prayer" and "meditation" > basically meant back during the early AA period, look at a > copy of Twenty-Four Hours a Day, the second most used book > in early AA. > > On each page you will see a section called "Meditation for > the Day" -- several sentences which we read in the morning, > and then spend a short period thinking about. We ask ourselves > questions like: Where does this apply to my life? Are there > parts of this which I am not doing in my spiritual life? > Do I need to change my attitude about God and life? Or > change my behavior? This kind of thing is what the word > meditation primarily means in Step Eleven.
Mayo
From: ckbudnick . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/18/2010 12:20:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I had an opportunity to stop at Christ Episcopal Church in Maryland today and to
see where Jim Burwell and Fitz Mayo are buried. I was able to get a map of the
cemetery. Email me at: copy of the cemetery map or pictures of their headstones. Chris B. Raleigh, North Carolina IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7021. . . . . . . . . . . . Meditation in the Big Book pp. 63 to 88 From: Kimball Rowe . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/15/2010 5:55:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Since the Big Book raises the issue of meditation, I think we ought to stick with the examples of meditation found in the Big Book. The Big Book simply refers to meditation as a review and a prayer as asking God. Also, perhaps we should observe the practice of placing the meditation before the prayer as the Big Book suggest and not after the prayer as the abbreviated step was written. I suspect even the Big Guy doesn't appreciate a "burning" desire. After meditation, we can be clearer on what our prayers should be.
Page 63 - Step 3 Meditation: We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready;
that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him. Prayer: "God, I offer myself to Thee -- to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" =============================================== Page 66-67 - Step 4, Resentments
spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. Prayer: We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience
that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done." =============================================== Page 68, Step 4, Fears Meditation: We reviewed our fears thoroughly. We put them on paper, even though
we had no resentment in connection with them. We asked ourselves why we had them.
would have us be. =============================================== Page 69, Step 4, Conduct Meditation: We reviewed our own conduct over the years past. Where had we been
selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion or bitterness? Where were we at fault, what should we have done instead? Prayer: We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. We ask
God what we should do about each specific matter. The right answer will come, if
we want it. =============================================== Page 75, Step 5
hour,
carefully reviewing what we have done. Prayer: We thank God from the bottom of our heart that we know Him better. =============================================== Page 76, Step 6
we have admitted are objectionable? Can He now take them all every one? Prayer: If we still cling to something we will not let go, we ask God to help us
be willing. =============================================== Page 76, Step 7
and
bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which
stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen." =============================================== Page 76, Step 8 Meditation: We subjected ourselves to a drastic self appraisal. Now we go out to
our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. Prayer: If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. =============================================== Page 79, Step 9
find a spiritual experience... Prayer: ...we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. =============================================== Page 84, Step 10 Meditation: Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear.
When these crop up... Prayer: ... we ask God at once to remove them. =============================================== Page 86, Step 11, evening
we resentful, selfish, dishonest or afraid? Do we owe an apology? Have we kept something to ourselves which should be discussed with another person at once?
Were we kind and loving toward all? What could we have done better? Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others. Prayer: After making our review we ask God's forgiveness and inquire what corrective measures should be taken. =============================================== Page 86, Step 11, morning Meditation: On awakening let us think about the twenty four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Prayer: Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking
that it be divorced from self pity, dishonest or self seeking motives. =============================================== Page 86-87, Step 11, through the day
able
to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while.
be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for
our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why. =============================================== Page 87-88, Step 11, when agitated or doubtful Meditation: We pause Prayer: We ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each
day "Thy will be done." =============================================== IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7022. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Meditation From: John Barton . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/17/2010 1:04:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Hello fellow AAHL, For anyone truly interested in the OG practices regarding prayer and meditation I strongly recommend reading Wally P's "How to Listen to God." It is well researched and accurately documents many of the practices right from OG literature. It also contains first hand, verifiable practices and recommendations. If I recall correctly Wally edits some of the quoted material but notes where he has done so. To understand how the OG business teams operated and used guidance (this was very different than the typical group guidance practices) read Garth Lean's "On The Tail of a Comet." The statement below seems an awfully broad stroke and from my research does not
accurately reflect the recommended or actual practices. ========================================= < OG method, you sat down with pencil and paper, and during that quiet time, wrote down all the thoughts that came into your mind. Then you read them afterward, looking for guidance from God. Including how you should take the inventories of the other people in the program, and "check them" (go up to them and explain to them the error of their ways) so they would learn to act as wisely and morally as you (Lord help us).">> ========================================= Of course, abuses can and do occur in any group setting and even the most refined technique or procedure in the hands of an unskilled person will yield bad results. The recommended practice of "checking guidance" for the typical OG member had nothing to do with "checking" other group members. It was a safegaurd against what Bill talked about on p.87 of the BB. "Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas." With respect to AA members using paper and pencil to capture guidance Dr Bob talked about this and admitted he wasn't very good at following it. I believe I read this in either the co-founders pamphlet (P-53) or The RHS Memorial Grapevine issue. Anne Smith also detailed this practice and its intended purpose
in her journal. Apparently she did follow it. These two clips that come from VC Kitchen's "I Was a Pagan" also help shed light
and intentions on the practices under discussion. Kitchen and his wife "checking" each other would not seem to be a "casual practice" common among ordinary group members, but the practice of a husband and wife each trying to follow First Century Christian Principles: We began, in fact, to pray together in creating the new vision of the couple God
would have us be. "One of our greatest blessings," as my wife says now, "is finding ourselves telling one another our own weak spots and asking for one another's prayers about them, with no fear that the other will gloat about it or
use that confidence as a weapon in the future." Instead, in other words, of criticizing each other, we now criticize ourselves to each other, and ask the other's prayers about it. And when we occasionally do "check" -- to hold the other to the maximum in Christ -- it is not without first examining the beam in our own eye, and then only under guidance in a prayerful and redemptive way. -- p.60
Oxford Group "government," therefore, is entirely made up of "executives." We have no "legislative department" and no "judicial department." We make no laws and have no rules within the group because all our law comes from God while the only rule is obedience to guidance. Similarly God is our only judge. To tell another man what is the matter with him is, as God has shown us, is worse than useless. We merely incur his resentment -- expressed or suppressed -- and accomplish nothing. When we sit in quiet time, however, and let God tell us of our sins we are not only convicted by His judgment but moved to do something about it. -- p.69
John B - - - - RESPONSE FROM GLENN C. John, do remember though, passages like the one in Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers on p. 140, which describes the kind of thing that ACTUALLY went on in the Oxford Group meeting in Akron which Dr. Bob and Anne Smith and the alcoholics attended -- as opposed to what the OG theories said was SUPPOSED to happen: James D. "J.D." Holmes, one of the very early people to get sober in Akron AA,
and later the founder on April 23, 1940 of the first AA group in Indiana, < One day, I called her into T. Henry's study and said, "I don't like you for some
reason or other." (In those days, you were supposed to "check" people.) "You interrupt and talk too much. I'm getting a lot of resentment here, and I don't like it, and I'm afraid I'll get drunk over it." She laughed and said something. Then we sat down and had a very pleasant visit. And I lost all resentment.'>>
from
Hinduism, Buddhism, or any kind of later AA practice. With the original OG method, you sat down with pencil and paper, and during that quiet time, wrote down all the thoughts that came into your mind. Then you read them afterward, looking for guidance from God. Including how you should take the inventories of the other people in the program, and "check them" (go up to them and explain to them the error of their ways) so they would learn to act as wisely and morally as you (Lord help us). I have never heard of any early AA person using pencil and paper during quiet
time. Maybe they might have very, very early in the development of AA, before
they had split with the OG, but I have never seen any written references to it myself. Maybe somebody could come up with a text I have forgotten about, but I think using pencil and paper was never part of AA practice, or wasn't for very long.
++++Message 7023. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Meditation From: Carl V. Kirsch . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/18/2010 10:55:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Carl Kirsch, Dov W., Jon Markle, and Dick Chalue - - - - From: "Carl V. Kirsch" (carlkirsch at yahoo.com) I love my little Twenty-Four Hours a Day book. It was one of the first books I bought when I came into on March 13, 1999. That book confirms for me what the word "meditation" means in AA. It means to "think" or "contemplate" something spiritual in nature. In the Twenty-Four Hours a Day book, the thing we are invited to think about is that little "Meditation" message set out therein.
on things spiritual too and he tells us what that is. Beginning on Page 86 with "Upon awakening...." to "We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer, etc." on Page 87, Wilson asks us to "think" (use our minds) five (5) times before saying, "We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer, etc." When Wilson wrote "We usually conclude the period of meditation," I think he assumed we knew that, if we did what he asked us to do in the text just preceding his invitation to pray, we had just finished meditating; otherwise, why would he use the word "conclude" on Page 87? I have no quarrel with Far Eastern concepts assigned to the word "meditation". They are all valid. It's just that for me in AA, mediation means to train my mind to think about and ask my God how and in what way I can be of maximum service to Him and to my Fellow Man, always adding "Thy will, not mine, be done."
Carl Kirsch Atlanta, Georgia - - - - From: Dov W (dovwcom at gmail.com) Personally I do meditation as described by the Big Book pp. 86-88. However, 11th Step meditation as described in the 12 and 12, although, like the
24 Hours meditations, it is rooted in the words of a prayer and therefore it is not as transcendent as more contemporary meditation, nevertheless the 12&12 meditation seems significantly closer to contemporary meditation than meditation as described in the Big Book.
sophistication of the 12&12. I personally appreciate the 12&12 for its spiritual insight but for me, on a practical level, I find the Big Book to be far simpler to implement and therefore, for me, more of a program of action. - - - - From: Jon Markle (SerenityLodge at gmail.com) I don't think there's any set recipe for meditation and prayer, no set order, no "right way" to do it. The 12x12 has a great essay on this subject. (I know, many do not believe in the 12x12, but I do, because it works for me) The key is . . . just do it! limitations upon my Higher Power. I'm a firm believer that if I just follow the instructions to the best of my ability, my HP will take care of the rest. If we get too legalistic, then it sounds like a cult or a religion and AA ain't
either of those, for sure. We each of us do this thing in the way that works for us. As it's said, "it works when I work it". Perhaps if more groups spent more time in actually studying and then practicing the suggestions found in the Big Book and other AA literature, such as the 12x12, and less time in "discussion" (arguing opinions) meetings, there would not be so much confusion or side-tracking into areas that are largely outside issues of controversy. But we alcoholics love a good debate/cat fight over control issues, don't we?
See, for example, on this list, how quickly a simple question can get into personal opinions where FACTS are supposed to preempt personal opinions. Hugs for the trudge. Jon M (Raleigh) 9/9/82
From: Dick Chalue (dickchalue at yahoo.com) From something I saw on one of the AA sites: Prayer is talking to GOD. Meditation is listening to GOD. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7024. . . . . . . . . . . . Large collection of old AA tape recordings discovered From: Elisabeth . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/22/2010 2:04:00 PM
reel-to-reel tapes, and wire recordings -- some of them dating back to the late forties and
fifties, originally collected by Bill and Arbutus O'Neal of Texas. I received this e-mail from a friend, and pass it on to the AAHistoryLovers -- it is EXCITING they found these tapes! Elisabeth (elisabeth98043 at yahoo.com) - - - - Hi Bill, After our wonderful conversation the other day I felt compelled to give you some
details on the progress of the "Recovery Speakers" project. First, thanks so much for all of your support and willingness to help get the word out. I was so thrilled to find the old reel with one of your mother's talks on it! As soon as it has been processed I'll send you a copy. The entire library consists of around 3,500 reel-to-reel tapes; some of them dating back to the late forties and fifties. The original owners/operators of this library were Bill and Arbutus O'Neal of Texas. They, like many other tape enthusiasts, didn't have much money. Consequently they taped at very slow speed so they could jam as much as possible onto a reel. I have reels containing as many as sixteen hours of recorded talks. Counting the reels, some old wire recordings, and cassettes I estimate that this library contains in the neighborhood of 50,000 talks. As we are getting these recordings digitized we have been making them available online at the website:
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