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It read: =============================== What you see here What you do here What you hear here When you leave here Let it stay here =============================== Cheers Arthur IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7028. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Large collection of old AA tape recordings discovered From: Sherry C. Hartsell . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/22/2010 5:45:00 PM
was
drafted to help her husband Bill (he had one arm missing from an alcohol related
driving accident)-- for yrs my children would caution me about driving with my elbow up on the window; "That's how Uncle Bill lost his arm Daddy, always keep your arm in the car!"
Arkansas, and Louisiana -- then help him with dubbing them while our wives talked Al-Anon in their Wichita Falls, Texas home, WF being where I sobered up in Dec of '67 -- great experience for a young fellow learning how to live the AA life. Neat also in that I got to visit and become acquainted with many old-timers and
speakers from the West Coast, Gulf Coast, Back East, and various and sundry Southern & Southwestern locations at these events. I consider myself fortunate indeed to have had these experiences. I am very grateful that Bill & Arbutus's work is being saved. Sherry C. H. Gilmer, in NE Texas - - - - Original message #7024 from Elisabeth Recovery Speakers has found around 50,000 AA talks -- cassettes, reel-to-reel tapes, and wire recordings -- some of them dating back to the late forties and
fifties, originally collected by Bill and Arbutus O'Neal of Texas. I received this e-mail from a friend, and pass it on to the AAHistoryLovers -- it is EXCITING they found these tapes! Elisabeth - - - - Hi Bill, After our wonderful conversation the other day I felt compelled to give you some
details on the progress of the "Recovery Speakers" project. First, thanks so much for all of your support and willingness to help get the word out. I was so thrilled to find the old reel with one of your mother's talks on it! As soon as it has been processed I'll send you a copy. The entire library consists of around 3,500 reel-to-reel tapes; some of them dating back to the late forties and fifties. The original owners/operators of this library were Bill and Arbutus O'Neal of Texas. They, like many other tape enthusiasts, didn't have much money. Consequently they taped at very slow speed so they could jam as much as possible onto a reel. I have reels containing as many as sixteen hours of recorded talks. Counting the reels, some old wire recordings, and cassettes I estimate that this library contains in the neighborhood of 50,000 talks. As we are getting these recordings digitized we have been making them available online at the website:
We had been outsourcing the digitizing; however, it has become too expensive. The current plan is to raise the funding to purchase the equipment necessary to do the digitizing and processing here with the help of volunteers. This includes reel-to-reel players, wire recorders, and a dedicated system to capture audio. This would enable us to begin to process these tapes here. One reason the process has been so costly is that everything must be done in "real time". I had
a professional estimate to have the entire library converted and almost fell over when they came back with an estimate of over 1 million dollars. Please note that the majority of these recordings are in very good condition and
some of them have never been made available anywhere. For example, I recently
found a reel containing talks from AA's First International Convention, held in Cleveland in 1950. AAWS archives didn't have these recordings and now, because of this project, they will have copies. I was recently able to donate some items, including old wire recordings, to Stepping Stones -- the Home of Bill & Lois Wilson. Now when people tour Stepping Stones they will be able to hear some incredible recordings including Bill W. playing the violin. I also sent along an actual wire recording unit like Bill W once had on his desk. I know the fellowship will enjoy seeing and hearing these new additions while visiting Stepping Stones. I'm sharing this information to let you and your friends know that the Recovery
Speaker project is bigger than just a website. Of course the website does currently host more than 3,000 downloadable AA and Al-Anon talks. Again, thank you for your ongoing service to the fellowship and all you continue
to do to help with this endeavor. In Love & Service, Mike F. Chandler, Arizona Recovery Speakers P.O. Box 2736 Chandler, AZ 85244-2736
convinced against his will From: Baileygc23@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/30/2010 6:14:00 PM
the
same opinion still," and refers these words to a work by Samuel Butler called
Hudibras. Here is Cliff Notes on the subject. The origin of this old adage appears to go back a long time. So long, in fact,
that no one is really sure where it originally came from. It also appears in many different forms in many different places. Mary Wollstonecraft (1759-1797), the famous British writer and feminist (and mother to the author of Frankenstein), included the quotation "Convince a man against his will, He's of the same opinion still" in the notes to Chapter 5 of her 1792 treatise, "A Vindication of the Rights of Woman." This adage is placed in quotes, denoting that it wasn't original text, but without reference to the source. So either she didn't know the origin of this saying or she assumed that it was so popularly known that citing the source was unnecessary. She might, however, have misquoted two lines from Samuel Butler's (1612-1680) enormous 17th-century poem Hudibras. Part III, Canto iii, lines 547-550 read thus:
Is of his own opinion still Which he may adhere to, yet disown, For reasons to himself best known Butler might have penned an original thought here, or he might have been borrowing what was already an old saying even in his time. We'll probably never know.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/Section/Who-wrote-A-man-convinced-against-his-wil l-is\
[29]
From: ricktompkins . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/15/2010 7:57:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Rick Tompkins and Michael Dunn - - - - From: "ricktompkins" (ricktompkins at comcast.net) Doesn't anyone see, read, or hear the 1993 Conference-approved Anonymity Statement? It's not like it isn't an AAWS, Inc. publication, it's our table placard and unlike the AFG, Inc. placard. And I am very surprised that it's not
readily available on the www.aa.org website. So, bear with me as I try to remember this from memory, as it was composed and
approved to protect AA Anonymity as a reminder and a full Fellowship effort: Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions. Please respect this
and treat with confidence who you see and what you hear. (illuminated "A" on the
placard) I'm not anti-Al-Anon by any stretch, but IMHO all of the posters to this thread,
most likely AAs, should either be laughing at ourselves or ashamed for not setting the history record straight. Rick, Illinois Al-Anon may have begun printing its dark blue tripod cylinder placard in the early 1980s or late 1970s. It's all we (AA) had to share on until 1993, good friends. Yes, cultural change is very slow LOL. ---R.
has
the right to break the anonymity of another member. A.A. as a whole seeks to ensure that individual members stay as private and protected as they wish, or as open as they wish, about belonging to the Fellowship; but always with the understanding that anonymity at the level of the press, radio, TV, film and new
media technologies, such as the Internet, is crucial to our continuing sobriety
and growth at both the personal and group levels." The text I believe comes from the Anonymity pamphlet. It was basically chosen as it reflects more strongly the "right" of the individual member to be "as private" or " as open" as they wish about themselves, except at the public level, and it emphasizes that no individual may break the anonymity of another
member. We felt this was closer to what anonymity is than "who you see here and
what you hear here, please let it stay here when you leave here." When you think
about it, how is one to stay sober or pass the message if you leave what you hear in the rooms? You can in fact use all you hear without identifying who said it.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7031. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: A.A.W.S. Conference Approved From: Bob . . . . . . . . . . . . 11/22/2010 4:51:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Bob 127, Jim in Central Ohio, Laurie Andrews, Baileygc23, and Robert rdberryarchitect - - - - From: Bob (bob127aa at yahoo.com) According to the traditions each group should be autonomous, wouldn't it be up to each group to decide what would be used/discussed in their meetings. I know or have known of groups using the Little Red Step Book, Emmet Fox and a few other non-conference-approved pieces of literature in their meetings.
it first began being used? No conference, no approval. Jim in Central Ohio - - - - From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews (jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) It's true that there was no Conference when the Big Book was published in 1939;
there certainly was when later editions came off the press. If Conferences were
so minded they could have deleted all those non-AA sources. BTW there's a much-quoted NCA reference about resentment in a magazine article by "a prominent clergyman" in the story Freedom from Bondage. Where in AA's copious literature or in Conference recommendations is it suggested that AA members should read only CA literature? Such advice would infantilise the fellowship.
shall never perform any acts of government; and that, like the Society of Alcoholics Anonymous which it serves, the Conference itself will always remain
democratic in thought and action." The 12 Concepts of A.A. World Service (Long Form) - - - - From: "Robert" (rdberryarchitect at sbcglobal.net) < < Message 7007 from < < said "Just because a piece of literature is not < < A.A.W.S. Conference 'approved,' does not mean < < that it is 'disapproved.' Who among us has < < not read some materials that were not A.A.W.S. < < Conference 'approved?!'" I agree with that thought. At our group we only display conference approved literature. Butch IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7032. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Have AA groups ever pressed charges against a member? From: JohnH . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/1/2010 11:36:00 AM
in our home group take about $20,000 from us. Yes, I know, lots of money for an AA group. But our prudent reserve is over $12,000 (only 2 months operating costs) and our working capital is about $6,000 per month. We were also saving for a planned move to another building. All of that went out the door. We now have it all recovered through generous donations from many members and the thief has made an effort to pay some of it back. But we did not prosecute, we did not file charges, we did not pursue any legal
action using the 12th Concept and the 5th Warranty as our guide. And we used the experience of other AA groups as a guide as well. We had long
time members from another group bring their experience, strength, and hope and
share it with us and we decided (overwhelmingly I might add) NOT to go after the
person. When I spoke directly to AA-GSO myself they informed me that they had never heard of a prosecution either. And one of AA's long-standing archivists (Gail L. from Akron) told me the same
thing. .... So, life goes on. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7033. . . . . . . . . . . . Defects vs shortcomings From: kentedavis . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/6/2010 12:40:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I have been unable to locate a reference to anyplace where Bill said why he used
both "defects" and "shortcomings" in the steps. Can anyone give me some help locating a reference where Bill is quoted as to why
he used these two different words? Kent - - - - 4. Made a searching and fearless MORAL INVENTORY of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our WRONGS. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these DEFECTS OF CHARACTER. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our SHORTCOMINGS. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7034. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: A.A.W.S. Conference Approved From: Kimball Rowe . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/1/2010 4:36:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII A reminder, there are a number of documents that we frequently quote from that
are not conference approved. The magazine the Grapevine comes to mind. The conference approval process is a lengthy ordeal, sometimes 3 or 4 years pass before a document come out of committee to the fellowship. The conference approval process would not work well with a monthly magazine. When did we become so rigid?
gave a
powerful and inspiring closing talk (excerpted below) to the 36th Conference. Our greatest danger: Rigidity This is my 18th General Service Conference -- the first two as a director of the
Grapevine and A.A.W.S., followed by four as a general service trustee. In 1972,
I rotated out completely, only to be called back two years later as general manager of G.S.O., the service job I held until late 1984. Since the 1985 International Convention, of course, I have been senior adviser. This is also my
last Conference, so this is an emotionally charged experience. I wish I had time to express my thanks to everyone to whom I am indebted for my sobriety and for the joyous life with which I have been blessed for the past nearly 25 years. But since this is obviously impossible, I will fall back on the
Arab saying that Bill quoted in his last message, "I thank you for your lives."
For without your lives, I most certainly would have no life at all, much less
the incredibly rich life I have enjoyed. Let me offer my thoughts about A.A.'s future. I have no truck with those bleeding deacons who decry every change and view the state of the Fellowship with pessimism and alarm. On the contrary, from my nearly quarter-century's perspective, I see A.A. as larger, healthier, more dynamic, faster growing, more global, more service-minded, more back-to-basics, and more spiritual -- by far -- than when I came through the doors of my first meeting in Greenwich, Connecticut, just one year after the famous Long Beach Convention. A.A. has flourished beyond the wildest dreams of founding members, though perhaps not of Bill himself, for he was truly visionary. I echo those who feel that if this Fellowship ever falters or fails, it will not
be because of any outside cause. No, it will not be because of treatment centers or professionals in the field, or non-Conference-approved literature, or young people, or the dually-addicted, or even the "druggies" trying to come to our closed meetings. If we stick close to our Traditions, Concepts, and Warranties, and if we keep an
open mind and an open heart, we can deal with these and any other problems that
we have or ever will have. If we ever falter and fail, it will be simply because
of us. It will be because we can't control our own egos or get along well enough
with each other. It will be because we have too much fear and rigidity and not
enough trust and common sense. If you were to ask me what is the greatest danger facing A.A. today, I would have to answer: the growing rigidity the increasing demand for absolute answers to nit-picking questions; pressure for G.S.O. to "enforce" our Traditions; screening alcoholics at closed meetings; prohibiting non-Conference-approved literature, i.e., "banning books"; laying more and more rules on groups and members. And in this trend toward rigidity, we are drifting farther and farther away from
our co-founders. Bill, in particular, must be spinning in his grave, for he was
perhaps the most permissive person I ever met. Bob P. (senior adviser) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7035. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: A.A.W.S. Conference Approved From: Stan Roberts . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/1/2010 4:47:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I am still looking for the list that has books that AAWS does not own the copyrights for. Any help? Stan R Williamsburg, VA 4-17-2007
is:
followed by additional lists containing thirty more books. This is a very good
and well-selected starting point for reading good books about AA and AA history.
those 80 or so books, you can go on to this excellent reference work: Charlie Bishop, Jr. and Bill Pittman, < Anonymous World Bibliography 1935-1994>> (Wheeling, West Virginia: The Bishop of Books, 1994), contains a list of 2,908 items. Charlie's own private alcoholism library, which contained 15,000 items, is now
at Brown University. I think you would just about have to visit their university library to start reading those books.
word
"alcoholism." Amazon give a list of 11,138 books which they sell. If you use the Google search function, and Google for book alcoholism you will find that Google gives you 3,420,000 results. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7036. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: The meaning of Anonymity From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/2/2010 3:38:00 AM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Laurie Andrews and Michael Dunn - - - - From: Laurie Andrews (jennylaurie1 at hotmail.com) Here in the UK the British General Service Office has a letter on protecting members' anonymity which is issued to the media covering conventions etc. It's on the Gt Britain AA website. - - - - From: Michael Dunn (mdshediac at yahoo.ca) The piece I quoted is out of the "Understanding Anonymity" pamphlet and is Conference approved. I recall the card you describe but don't recall the text. At any rate, our group decided to use the text I noted, because we feel it is more complete and descriptive than "Who you see here, what you hear here, leave it here" which for us has become something of a meaningless cliche. Michael - - - - Earlier message from: Michael Dunn yahoo.ca) My group reads the following at our meetings: "A.A. has promised personal anonymity to all who attend its meetings. No one has
the right to break the anonymity of another member. A.A. as a whole seeks to ensure that individual members stay as private and protected as they wish, or as open as they wish, about belonging to the Fellowship; but always with the understanding that anonymity at the level of the press, radio, TV, film and new
media technologies, such as the Internet, is crucial to our continuing sobriety
and growth at both the personal and group levels." The text I believe comes from the Anonymity pamphlet. It was basically chosen as it reflects more strongly the "right" of the individual member to be "as private" or " as open" as they wish about themselves, except at the public level, and it emphasizes that no individual may break the anonymity of another
member. We felt this was closer to what anonymity is than "who you see here and
what you hear here, please let it stay here when you leave here." When you think
about it, how is one to stay sober or pass the message if you leave what you hear in the rooms? You can in fact use all you hear without identifying who said it.
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7037. . . . . . . . . . . . RE: Origin of an AA quote: a man convinced against his will From: Jenny or Laurie Andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/2/2010 6:57:00 AM
"Experience, Strength and Hope", page 130): "... all that this study and research ever did
for me was to show something about why I drank. It substantiated a fact that I had known all along, that my drinking was symptomatic. It did point out a road to better mental health but it demanded something of me in return that I did not have to give. It asked of me a power of self-will but it did not take into consideration that this self-will was already drugged with poison - that I was
very sick. Intuitively I always knew that a person constrained to temperance by the domination of the will is no more cured of his vice than if he were locked up in prison. I knew that somehow, some way, the mental stream, the emotions, must be purified before the right pathway could be followed." BTW the chapter is headed with the quotation attributed to Herbert Spencer which
was reprinted at the end of the Spiritual appendix in the Big Book. - - - - From: Baileygc23@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 Subject: Origin of an AA quote: a man convinced against his will
the
same opinion still," and refers these words to a work by Samuel Butler called
Hudibras. Here is Cliff Notes on the subject. The origin of this old adage appears to go back a long time. So long, in fact,
that no one is really sure where it originally came from. It also appears in many different forms in many different places. Mary Wollstonecraft (1759-1797), the famous British writer and feminist (and mother to the author of Frankenstein), included the quotation "Convince a man against his will, He's of the same opinion still" in the notes to Chapter 5 of her 1792 treatise, "A Vindication of the Rights of Woman." This adage is placed in quotes, denoting that it wasn't original text, but without reference to the source. So either she didn't know the origin of this saying or she assumed that it was so popularly known that citing the source was unnecessary. She might, however, have misquoted two lines from Samuel Butler's (1612-1680) enormous 17th-century poem Hudibras. Part III, Canto iii, lines 547-550 read thus:
Is of his own opinion still Which he may adhere to, yet disown, For reasons to himself best known Butler might have penned an original thought here, or he might have been borrowing what was already an old saying even in his time. We'll probably never know.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/Section/Who-wrote-A-man-convinced-against-his-wil l-is\
[29]
charges against a member? From: Shakey1aa@aol.com . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/2/2010 5:41:00 PM
run a
group? Where do they meet? Madison Square Garden? AA groups should own no property.That is the purpose of club houses and they are
not AA. They collect rent from AA groups and facilitate a meeting place. See the
GSO Yellow page guidelines for Clubs. I'd like to know if any clubhouse, being outside the AA service structure, has ever brought suit against an AA member. BTW, most AA groups require two signatures on checks. My home group does not but I will make that suggestion at the next business meeting. We make the suggested 50/30/10/10 split ,as soon as we go over our prudent reserve, several
times a year and get treasurer's reports monthly. Shakey Mike Gwirtz Phila, PA IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ++++Message 7039. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Defects vs shortcomings From: Tom Hickcox . . . . . . . . . . . . 12/6/2010 11:39:00 PM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII From Tommie Hickcox, tomper87, Arthur S., and others - - - - From: Tom Hickcox (cometkazie1 at cox.net) GRAPEVINE ARTICLE: http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=39321&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQWp1bHkrMTk3N yZwZ\
AA Grapevine - July 1977 Vol. 34 No. 2 Word-worriers Members of our Fellowship are prone to spend hours of meeting time debating the precise meaning of words in the Steps and Traditions. When co-founder Bill W. was asked why he said "defects of character" in Step Six and "shortcomings" in Step Seven, he replied: "I just didn't want to use the same word twice."
Question: What is the difference between "Character Defects" and "Shortcomings"? Answer: A Staff Member said that she asked this question of Bill some years ago. Quite simply, he said he didn't want to use the same word twice. He intended the two terms to mean the same thing. * From the 1977 General Service Conference "Ask It Basket" Question: Could we republish the quotation from Bill W concerning the difference, or lack of difference, between "defects" and "shortcomings" in the Steps? Answer: Some years ago, we received many letters asking the difference between these terms. Bill said he did not want to use the same word twice.
the GSO archives written by Bill - "As if by magic the computer revealed a letter by Bill saying that the meaning was intended to be synonomous and that the different words were merely semantic for literary flow"
live.com) and also by who adds a reference to AAHistoryLovers message 6040. - - - - The underlying point -- that Bill W. was attempting to maintain good literary
style by not simply repeating the same word in two different sentences in a row
-- was made by seven other members of our group: Cliff "Sherry C. Hartsell" Yüklə 25,47 Mb. Dostları ilə paylaş:
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