does not extend beyond death. Furthermore,
Silkworth was not even an alcoholic. I agree
that we do not name groups after people.
Ben Humphreys
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++++Message 5934. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Spanish AA materials and History
From: Mitchell K. . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/11/2009 11:11:00 PM
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Most probably, the very first Spanish AA
translated by Dick Perez in the early 1940's.
Spanish pretty much just after he got sober.
out of Mexico.
wrote:
I am looking for Spanish AA books and material
from the 1940's, 50's, and 60's.
The very first Spanish AA material came out of
Mexico in 1947 translated by an Al-Anon, the
Akron panphlet titled A.A.
But I am also looking for the History of the
Podium, widely used in AA meetings in Spanish
in all of Latin America and Spanish-language
meetings in the US.
Where did that practice come from?
Any information on either of the above will be
appreciated.
Juan R.
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++++Message 5935. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA group - updated list
August 16, 2009
From: jenny andrews . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2009 3:45:00 AM
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This list gives the first UK AA group as: London, England 31 March 1947 at
the
Dorchester hotel. In fact that was only the first AA meeting (as far as we
know). AA Great Britain's own history records: "At the first AA meeting of
Alcoholics Anonymous in 1947 there were eight people present, brought
together
by a visiting American lady (Grace Oursler). Five of these had been in
contact
with the Foundation of AA in the USA and the visitor contacted them on her
arrival. The other two had been chance meetings and an invitation followed
to
join the others at the Dorchester hotel... An advert in the Financial Times
followed... From then on there were various meetings which were held in a
variety of places: cinemas, cafes, restaurants and homes. In 1948 the first
London group began holding meetings at Chandoes Street, London, (emphasis
added)
and in December a group met in Manchester..."
(From Share and Share Alike, the book published by Great Britain General
Service
Board to mark AA's 60th anniversary in the UK in 2007, which I compiled and
edited).
Canadian Bob, one of the AA's who attended the meeting at the Dorchester
hotel,
recalling those early days, wrote: "We had until then followed American
practice
and ended meetings with the Lord's Prayer. One man seemed always to reach
'Amen'
before others were past the '... forgive us our trespasses'. Therefore, and
because some of the few recited without enthusiasm or not at all, I
suggested
the shorter 'Serenity, Courage and Wisdom' invocation to close the meetings.
This has probably proved to be a happy change because some years later when
asked to take a Chandos Street meeting I asked fellow members to follow the
American tradition for this one November evening. Probably too insensitive
to
note that consternation reigned supreme I was later to learn that several
tongues wagged with indignant violence - 'What right did he think he had to
tamper with our time-honoured usage'?"
Laurie A.
- - - -
From: glennccc@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: First AA group - updated list August 16, 2009
WORLD:
***Australia: 1945, 1st outside Northern America !!!
......(1st Big Book received in Australia 1942)
***Ireland: Dublin November 18, 1946, 1st in Europe!!!
***UK (United Kingdom):
......England: London, the March 31, 1947 meeting
......at the Dorchester Hotel was the 1st UK group
......followed by Manchester with nearby Bolton
......in November 1948
......Scotland: Perth, Edinburgh and Glasgow 1949
......Wales: Cardiff April 13, 1951
***Denmark: 1st registered group January 1955
......("Ring I Ring -- Dansk AA" already existed,
......and had been in contact with the New York GSO,
......but rejected the spiritual aspect of the program)
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++++Message 5936. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: First AA group - updated list
August 16, 2009
From: Stephen Gentile . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2009 9:59:00 AM
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Ohio does not have a group. Kings school number
one would be a fine start. There was not a group
just because Dr. Bobv had his last drink not
Bill Dotson. If these dates are Group dates
then NJ should be using Montclair and so on....
- - - -
From: glennccc@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: First AA group - updated list August 16, 2009
***New Jersey: South Orange May 14, 1939
***Ohio: Akron, Dr. Bob's last drink on
......June 17, 1935; founding celebrated in Akron
......as July 4, 1935 (Bill Dotson discharged
......from Akron City Hospital)
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++++Message 5937. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: St. Francis Prayer: put a note
in the 12 and 12 about authorship?
From: J. Lobdell . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2009 11:35:00 AM
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The semi-reflexive "on ressuscite" is probably better translated as "one
awakens" than as "one resurrects [oneself]" or even "one is reborn" -- and
at
least "one awakens" is a common translation for the prayer. As noted, the
history of the prayer is pretty clearly set forth by the Franciscans on
their
website. And as far as a note as to the actual authorship -- well, as an
historian, I don't think it's important to "update" what Bill wrote -- it
was
generally thought of at least as a "Prayer attributed to St Francis" and he
thought of it as by St Francis -- and after all, AA doesn't alter the text
of
the 12&12 to put the Washingtonians one hundred and sixty-five years ago (or
even a hundred and fifty years ago) rather than a hundred years ago.
- - - -
> Original message from: Baileygc23@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009
>
> Bill W said the St Francis prayer came from
> St. Francis, but the Franciscans say that the
> prayer came from a much later date.
>
> Has AA addressed the difference, and will
> they put a note in the 12&12, correcting the
> impression?
>
> Not coming from a Catholic background, I did
> not know till Mel pointed it out to me in an
> email.
>
> Also the AA last line does not seem to track
> the version from the French:
>
> "Lord, grant that I may seek rather
> to comfort than to be comforted
> --to understand, than to be understood
> --to love, than to be loved.
> For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
> It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.
> It is by dying that one awakens to Eternal Life."
>
> Thanks, George
>
> - - - -
>
> http://wahiduddin.net/saint_francis_of_assisi.htm
>
> http://www.franciscan-archive.org/franciscana/peace.html
>
> The first known appearance of this inspiring
> prayer was in 1912 AD when it was published in
> the French magazine La Clochette.
>
> Original French Text of
> the Peace Prayer of St. Francis
>
> Belle prière à faire pendant la Messe
>
> Seigneur, faites de moi un instrument de votre paix.
> Là où il y a de la haine, que je mette l'amour.
> Là où il y a l'offense, que je mette le pardon.
> Là où il y a la discorde, que je mette l'union.
> Là où il y a l'erreur, que je mette la vérité.
> Là où il y a le doute, que je mette la foi.
> Là où il y a le désespoir, que je mette l'espérance.
> Là où il y a les ténèbres, que je mette votre lumière.
> Là où il y a la tristesse, que je mette la joie.
>
> Ô Maître, que je ne cherche pas tant
> à être consolé qu'à consoler,
> à être compris qu'à comprendre,
> à être aimé qu'à aimer,
> car c'est en donnant qu'on reçoit,
> c'est en s'oubliant qu'on trouve,
> c'est en pardonnant qu'on est pardonné,
> c'est en mourant qu'on ressuscite à l'éternelle vie.
>
> Source: La Clochette, n 12, déc. 1912, p. 285.
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++++Message 5938. . . . . . . . . . . . Re: Hearts and lives? Noun or verb?
From: John Lee . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2009 10:10:00 AM
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From John Lee and Alex H.
- - - -
From: John Lee
(johnlawlee at yahoo.com)
A NOUN, NOT A VERB:
"Lives", as used on page 25, is a plural noun.
If it was a verb, there would be a comma after
"hearts."
CREATOR VS. HIGHER POWER:
Also of interest here: the word "Creator" is
used twelve times in the basic text, whereas
"Higher Power" is only used twice. I've seldom
heard members refer to their "Creator" in the
course of a meeting. The politically-correct
"Higher Power" has supplanted "God" in the
vocabularly of many members, even though it's
only used twice in the basic text [as a synonym
for God].
I often mention that there's a solution,
cleverly hidden in a chapter called, "There
Is A Solution."
John Lee
Pittsburgh
"take the Steps, you'll be contacted"
- - - -
From: Alex H
(ah1270 at sbcglobal.net)
George Cleveland (pauguspass) wrote:
> In the Big Book in Chapter 2 "There is a Solution" on page 25 in The
Great Fact paragraph it says, "... our Creator has entered into our
hearts and lives in a way that is indeed miraculous."
> Do we have a consensus or feeling on whether that's "lives" as a verb or
"lives" as a noun?
Well... "lives" must be a noun. If you quote the entire sentence, the
grammar makes the usage clear. Here is the whole quote:
"The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our
Creator
has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous."
If "lives" was a verb, grammar would require the sentence to read "The
central FACTS of our lives today ARE the absolute certainty that our
Creator has entered into our lives and lives in a way which is indeed
miraculous."
Of course that is setting aside the theological question of whether our
Creator
requires a miracle in order to live and related theological questions such
as
"If G-d lives in our hearts, is this any more or less miraculous than that
G-d
lives anywhere at all."
It is easy to mistake my response as sarcasm so let me remove all doubt. No
sarcasm. No joke. I'm serious.
Alex H.
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++++Message 5939. . . . . . . . . . . . Alabama, Alaska, Colorado , Delaware
From: t . . . . . . . . . . . . 8/17/2009 3:12:00 PM
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Glenn,
I thought I'd start checking some of the old Grapevines for info on the
areas you don't have anything down for yet. I won't swear that this will
get at the FIRST group in these states but it should at least shed some
light on a bit of their early history.
BTW, a lot of this Grapevine info is already in the archives for this
group [the "news circuit" and "new groups" columns from 44-48] for
anyone who is interested and willing to search it out. And what is not
here, is now readily available from the archives at the Grapevine website.
Alabama
GV Jly44, in short article "Bill's Trip South" mentions Birmingham Alabama
as
one of 8 groups Bill and Lois visited on their trip. nice mention at end of
article:
" In Birmingham, besides the usual open A.A.
meeting, Bill was asked to address the monthly
guest-luncheon of the town's swankest
luncheon-club, which had already contracted
to hear the Governor of Alabama on that date.
The Governor, believe it or not, was put off
until the next month so that the gathering
could hear about Alcoholics Anonymous
straight from the mouth of its First Member.
Among those listening were the Mayor of
Birmingham, the ex-Governor of Alabama,
and several members of Congress. They'd
come to hear Bill talk, not the other way
'round! "
GV Dec45, in the column "AA's Country Wide News Circuit" mentions :
" In Birmingham, Ala., the first regional A. A.
convention ever held in the South went over the
top with hundreds of members attending from
Virginia, West Virginia, North and South Carolina,
Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee,
Mississippi and Alabama."
GV Feb46, in "New Groups" column mentions "Anniston and Cherokee, Alabama"
GV Oct46, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Piedmont and Safford."
GV Nov46, in "New Groups" column mentions ALABAMA — Birmingham (Woodlawn
East
Group), Tuscaloosa (Veterans Hospital), Tuskegee."
GV Dec46, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Gadsden; Tuscaloosa,
Box
304."
GV Jly47, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA — Eufaula."
GV Oct47, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Brewton, Fairhope and
Wetumpka."
GV Apr48, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Lanett."
GV May48, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Troy."
GV Jly48, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA—Huntsville; Sheffield."
GV Aug48" in "New Groups" column mentions "ALABAMA — Decatur, North
Alabama
Group; Dothan, Wiregrass A.A. Group."
Alaska
GV Aug45, in "AA's Country-Wide News Circuit" column mentions:
"The wilds of Alaska have been penetrated by
A. A. Well, not exactly the wilds, for Alaska's
first group is in Skagway—a town known historically
as the landing place of large quantities
of supplies and thousands of people during
the 1897-98 "Klondike Rush" to reach the gold
mines in the upper (Canadian) Y u k o n . . . . "
GV Dec46, in "New Groups" column mentions "ALASKA—Anchorage."
GV Jan47, in "AA's Country-Wide News Circuit" column mentions:
"Alaska Thawing Out.—How A.A. is beginning
to flourish in Anchorage, Alaska, in spite
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